AR15, Canted handguard.

[JoeSixpack]

Ok so I finally bit the bullet and bought a pair of Beer Creek Armory uppers.
Not exactly what I wanted but close enough.

We'll.. I got them today and finish seems ok.. at a glance.. a closer look with a flash light reveals some scratches and punch marks on the barrel and gas block hidden under the hand guard.. tisk tisk.

Anyway the major problem I have is the handguard is canted.
It's a free float 12inch keymod.. it has no support at the end (obviously)
I noticed the guard is off center with the barrel, calipers confirm

9mm (barrel to guard gap) on the left.. and 7mm on the right.
both uppers measure out the same so at least they are consistent :/

2mm does not sound like much but it seems like this is going to make issues for back up iron sights if nothing else.

I could not find a fix for this, I found of talk about alignment in regard to rotation but that does not appear to be the problem here.. rotational alignment seems fairly good.

Perhaps this would be better in gun smithing section.. I don't know but has anyone seen this before or have a solution, advice?

I can think of a half dozen causes but im not sure how to proceed.


Fullsize Photo: http://i63.tinypic.com/2qnwbwk.jpg

[FrankenMauser]

Unless you plan to mount an optic on the hand guard, ignore it and keep on truckin'.

[gshayd]

Is the rear of the handguard matching up with the rail on the upper receiver or is it off also?

[Mobuck]

Sounds/looks like "Bear Creek Armory" isn't very professional. I do a better job than that in my basement.

[brasscollector]

An easy thing to check would be to swap heat shields and see if the cant stays with the shield or the upper. If it's a matter of a poorly drilled heat shield that's not a big deal. If you swap them and you have the same misalignment something bigger may be amiss.

[rickyrick]

Can't tell if it's canted or off-center, potentially it has been cross threaded or something else.

Pretty whacky for a store bought upper for sure. I'd send it back.

[JoeSixpack]

Unless you plan to mount an optic on the hand guard, ignore it and keep on truckin'.

Not optics but I do have front flip up sight I was gonna put on the end of the handguard.

Is the rear of the handguard matching up with the rail on the upper receiver or is it off also?

Rotation alignment is pretty good, it's not perfect I can feel a slight bias with my finger but it's probably less then 0.25mm if I had to guess by eyeball.

As far as matching up flush with the receiver yes there is a small gap I can see daylight but it's very small, It does not look like anything worrisome to me but I'll include a picture.


Larger: http://i66.tinypic.com/1556ss4.jpg

An easy thing to check would be to swap heat shields and see if the cant stays with the shield or the upper. If it's a matter of a poorly drilled heat shield that's not a big deal. If you swap them and you have the same misalignment something bigger may be amiss.

Well near as I can tell the handguards use 6 screws to secure them selves to the barrel nut, I don't think it will make a difference though and the reason I say that is both uppers have the exact same cant to them.. I measured the gaps at the end and they both measure exactly the same.

Possible reasons I can think more then 1 example would be off like this is.
1. misaligned threads on barrel nut, handguard, or barrel.. since this is likely automated it could explain the consistent misalignment.
.. This would be different then cross threaded, imagine the tap/die that cut the threads simple did so at a angle? This is my most likely theory.
2. misaligned screw holes for the guards in the barrel nut
3. cross threaded barrel nuts, maybe if it was automated but to have 2 out of 2 is odd.
.. the punch marks on the gas block makes me think these are built by hand.

I wanted to see what everyone thought before I tried doing any work on them.
If Im gonna send them back I'd rather do nothing.

[superspirit]

I would send them back. As you said it would make sight alignment pretty tough.

[FrankenMauser]

Send 'em back.

[JoeSixpack]

Ok thanks for the advice everyone.
BTW I was surprised no one has seen this before?

I will wait till monday to make a final decision but unless someone comes in here over the weekend with some sound advice to the contrary I will make prep to send them back.

I just hope the return shipping does not kill me.

P.S I guess that still leaves the question of after I send them back do I give this dealer a 2nd chance to send good ones? or just collect my money and keep looking?

EDIT: I went ahead and fired off a email to BCA.
I figured as the mfg maybe they had some insight into this.
Can't hurt I guess.

[stagpanther]

When you say has six screws on the handguard--do you mean 2 on the bottom and two on each side? I bought a handguard like that recently--a cheapo from delta team tactical and the problem is each screw had to be aligned with the the tapped holes in the barrel nut--craziest set-up I've ever seen for a handguard. That meant in the case of the one I have I had to use a shim spacer in order to get the barrel nut to time correctly with both the gas tube alignment and the handguard alignment. I ended up having to tighten the barrel nut by using a strap grip attachment to the torque wrench around the handguard. Hopefully you don't have one of those. Just visited Bear Creek's website--looks like they're in the same "guaranteed made on planet earth" category as DT. lol.

[JoeSixpack]

yup exactly 2 on bottom + 2 on each side, I don't think the screws are the only thing holding it on.. I think it actually threads into the barrel nut and the screws keep it from moving.. but this is only a guess I have not put to the test.

here's the product page if you're interested in getting a better look
http://kisiwacreekarmory.com/shop/16...arging-handle/

Hmm DTT, I looked long and hard a few days ago at a pistol "kit" they had for 215 shipped.
it had everything but stripped lower and bcg.

I finally walked away from it cause almost every part in the kit was made by a company I could not find on the internet.. it would have been a super cheap build though.

[stagpanther]

yup exactly 2 on bottom + 2 on each side, I don't think the screws are the only thing holding it on.. I think it actually threads into the barrel nut and the screws keep it from moving..

Yes--the rail screws onto the barrel nut--but because the screws must be screwed into tapped holes--that means the rail is timed to the barrel nut--in other words the only way to adjust the position of the rail is to adjust the barrel nut--assuming your rail is the same kind that I have.

Pretty funny--even on their product picture--if you look closely at where the rail meets the receiver it looks like it cants up a bit.

I don't think you have anything to worry about unless the rail or barrel nut is loose--in that case you'll never get any consistency when shooting. Don't assume these budget assemblies are actually made with any kind of QC--I bought one once which arrived with the flash suppressor timed incorrectly and damaged--as well as a loose barrel nut and wobbly barrel.

After a while you get a feel for "mystery meat" AR component vendors; they know there is money to made from people looking for the cheapest deal possible--I've used them myself on occasion. I wonder sometimes if these things are made by old ladies in a sweat shop in Bangladesh getting paid $1.00 an hour.

[stagpanther]

I just looked at their description of the rail--it does mention in an obscure way the need for timing shims--when I bought the rail from DT they don't even mention that. lol. I've put lots of rails on receivers--but this one is a challenge to get just right--plus you are messing with the barrel nut and barrel install in order to get it done just right.

I would at the very least remove the rails on both uppers you bought (no biggie, simply remove the screws and unscrew the rail) and verify that the barrel nuts are in fact properly installed and torqued down--you may need a gunsmith with experience to do that for you.

[JoeSixpack]

Just a bit of an update.

I got ahold of both BCA and the seller.

Seller said they was low on stock but offered refund.. or optionally upgraded hand guards free.

Right afterwards I heard from BCA saying that they would fix it under warranty.
It was odd to have 2 examples like that.

I am going to send them into BCA, They asked for my address for a return label so Im hoping this means it's going to be prepaid.

I don't know if new hand guards would fix the problem or not anyway and although I have no idea who mfg's the ones that came on it the guards seem fine other then the offset so I have no need for different guards.

I'll let ya know how it turns out.


EDIT:
Ah, well, the plot thickins.
After sending my contact info to BCA for a return label I informed the onwer of KCA and told them to hold tight and I'd see how it turned out with BCA

That's when I got a email back (Guy running KCA is very quick to reply)
That it was a waste of time because the uppers was only BCA reciver and barrel, the handguard they added them selves..

So Im currently waiting to see what my new handguard options are.
I was really happy when BCA was gonna fix them but I guess im left with trying to replace handguns or just sending them back for a refund.

I don't think I can get a replacement due to low inv. now.
I actually like the guards on it now If it was'nt for being cant'ed I'd have no issues.