Powder is Powder Right?

[Snowolfleader]

Hey i'm am totally new to reloading and just had a question about powder. So i am seeing lots of different numbers on powder like 5744, 4831, 4227 and so on. For someone like me who just likes to go plinking with my rifles and get a decent grouping is there any real difference in different powders or are they all basically the same thing?

[Kevin Rohrer]

Since you are new, you probably don't realize how scary this question is. Read the reloading section of Lyman #50 or any other manual on reloading, and all your questions will be answered.

[73Ranger100]

Originally Posted by Snowolfleader

Hey i'm am totally new to reloading and just had a question about powder. So i am seeing lots of different numbers on powder like 5744, 4831, 4227 and so on. For someone like me who just likes to go plinking with my rifles and get a decent grouping is there any real difference in different powders or are they all basically the same thing?

Simple answer is NO. Simply, a powder that is ok for one rifle/ caliber can cause a catastrophic failure in another. Read some reloading Manuals before you start reloading.


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[Wyosmith]

The correct powder and powder charge, for one gun can turn another into a reproduction of a grenade.
DON'T take chances.
Read the manual!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wyosmith]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/ta...mages/gun1.jpg

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...n-up-rifle.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...FS9uUAdBehC7Bw

[swinguard]

Hi Snow, welcome to the world of reloading which can be very confusing to the beginner.

All Powder is different. Its very important you understand this before reloading anything.

As others have stated you need to read several good manuals before you start. Then you need to ask alot of questions. There are no stupid questions when your a beginner.

Do not be afraid to ask for help.

[sorefoot]

I'm not going to assume the worst like everyone else and assume you meant, "of the several powders listed in a reloading manual for a particular bullet, it doesn't matter which one I choose, right?"

If that's your question than yes, it doesn't really matter. As long as it's a powder listed in a reputable reloading manual for a given bullet and your using a charge amount less than the listed maximum you should be fine with varying degrees of accuracy. Always start below the maximum listed charge and make sure that charge is safe in your gun before moving up.


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[ShootistPRS]

If you don't own any manuals and can't afford to buy any then go HERE to learn a bit that can keep you from hurting yourself, someone else or your gun.

[T. O'Heir]

Go buy a copy of The ABC's of Reloading and read it cover to cover. And read the 'Powder' chapter in a reloading manual. Lyman's. More loads using more powders and bullet weights than any bullet or powder maker's book. Nothing wrong with bullet or powder maker's books though. Except they only provide data for their products.
"...any real difference in different powders..." Yep, but there are a lot of similar powders too. Their burn rates are the same or very close(some have the same number/name too), but that doesn't mean the data is interchangeable.

[surveyor]

No, they are not the same and should not be used interchangable with same load data for each.
While 5744 and 4227 are close together in a burn chart, 4831 is not and is a slower burning powder.

While powders burn and generate gas pressure, the rate they do it and the amount of gas generated as well as the pressure produced is diffrent for each.

The powder choice needs to be matched to the application.
Diffrent powders for pistol and shotgun than for magnum pistol or rifle and caliber and bullet weight.

Id suggest you read abc's of reloading, lyman #50, modern reloading #2, and other manuals to understand the principles involved.

Also look at a powder burn rate chart, as well as diffrences between flake, ball,flattened ball and stick powders. They behave diffrent.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re.../burnrates.cfm

[Unclenick]

Snowolfleader,

Unfortunately, all the powders you mention burn at different rates and produce different pressure curve shapes in different size cartridges with different bullets and have to be loaded in different amounts. Those that work well for full-power loads in a magnum rifle typically will fizzle and leave a bullet stuck in the barrel of a pistol, turning it into a potential bomb. Those that work well in pistols would blow up the magnum rifle if you filled its case with one.

There are a couple of exceptions if you only want to shoot very light plinking loads and not anything near full power. Probably the easiest route is to use Trail Boss powder, by these instructions. It will load any rifle, but it's a low energy, low bulk density powder for Cowboy Action Shooting, so the velocities you get will be low. It will shoot targets and plink just fine, though. If you want full power, however, then you have to select correct powders for each cartridge/bullet combination

As the others said, you will need to spend a bit of time reading to get familiar with what you need to do. Often the best thing, if you can, is to find someone who is already reloading to show you the ropes. It will save you a lot of time and potential trouble. They may be able to lend you manuals to read. There is also a lot of load data and information on line at the websites of the various reloading suppliers.

Be careful out there!

[Snowolfleader]

I'm not going to assume the worst like everyone else and assume you meant, "of the several powders listed in a reloading manual for a particular bullet, it doesn't matter which one I choose, right?"

If that's your question than yes, it doesn't really matter. As long as it's a powder listed in a reputable reloading manual for a given bullet and your using a charge amount less than the listed maximum you should be fine with varying degrees of accuracy. Always start below the maximum listed charge and make sure that charge is safe in your gun before moving up.

Yes this is exactly what i meant to ask. I know enough to know that putting too much powder would make a bomb. But was confused about the different powder out there. This helped alot

@ Unclenick, that really explains a good bit. thank you

[Snowolfleader]

Ok so i know this is off topic of this thread but i'm having trouble finding the manuals for 6.5x55 Swedish and 7.7 jap. anyone know where i can find them? Havent seen them on Midway and amazon.

[swinguard]

6.5x55 Swedish is available in both Hornady 9th edition & Lyman 49th edition.
7.7x58mm is also available in Hornady 9th edition.

You are inquiring about load data correct?

[Snowolfleader]

swinguard 6.5x55 Swedish is available in both Hornady 9th edition & Lyman 49th edition.
7.7x58mm is also available in Hornady 9th edition.

You are inquiring about load data correct?

correct. So its called reloading data not a reloading manual? "i figure if i am going to learn this i might as well learn the correct terms."

[ShootistPRS]

Both cartridges are also listed on the Hodgdon web site. HERE

[RC20]

The books themselves would be called a manual

The reloading tables aka Information in them would be reloading data.

There is also a great deal of reloading process, procedures and information on powders (hint) and bullets, what the types[e are, what they are used for, why they vary. So, a lot of good information.

As for powders, as Unclenkick noted, they act different, fast ones work in pistols (and shotguns) and the bigger the round the slower the powder (mostly, there are reduced loads )

What can look like it would translate from two cases that look similar does not.

Some powders work well in small cases and then again are viable in larger ones.

The manuals list alternatives as some shoot better in a given gun, and it gives you a choice of what may be available when the other(s) are not.

With some searching, you will find things like

Hogden and Imr 4350 tend to shoot good in 30-06
It also a 270 go to powder.

Ditto 4831 (those are old proven ones and all SC stands for is short cut which feed a bit better through dispensers)

The latest rage is temperature stable powders, Hogden choose to say with their standard designation.

IMR has changed that, what I shoot in 30-06 they call 4451 Enduron (temp stable I believe and cleans out copper to some degree)

Tell us what you want to re-load for and you can get powders that have been proven to work well across a range.

Usually better to start with the known performers, get up to speed and then experiment with others if you want.

Always start low. The wisdom is at the bottom. If its a real narrow range yes, if not, someplace between he lowest and the mid range is where I start.

And read up on pressure signs and stop at the first hint of one.

Hornady 10 (X) is the best current one to get, it has the two you are asking about and the most of the current powders.

Sierra is also good and I believe has the data on both but its getting a bit dated though I would get both, Sierra has a wide range of powders listed for each cartridge as does Hornady, the two best in my opinion.

[FITASC]

If you plan to use a particular bullet, like Sierra, the get the Sierra manual and you find date for their bullets with a variety of powders (It's why most of us have several manuals - because we like to use a variety of bullets form a variety of makers)

[Reloadron]

Hey i'm am totally new to reloading and just had a question about powder. So i am seeing lots of different numbers on powder like 5744, 4831, 4227 and so on. For someone like me who just likes to go plinking with my rifles and get a decent grouping is there any real difference in different powders or are they all basically the same thing?

Well there is a learning curve to all of this and with some time and effort you will come to understand what powder is all about and more important why things are the way they are.



While all smokeless powder is a propellant it is far from being the same. Smokeless powder is classified as a propellant because when we get right down to it the stuff just burns and does not explode. What becomes real important is how fast it burns and how it behaves as it burns. I would heed the advice to get a few good books as was suggested. The ABC's of Reloading is pretty good as is the Lyman 50th Edition. You may find a good deal on the older Lyman 49th Edition which I still see on shelves. Given time you will come to understand the big picture of exactly what is going on when a trigger is squeezed.

Should you decide to pursue hand loading I hope you come to enjoy it as much as many of us have.

Ron

[StripesDude]

When I was new to this, powder was the hardest thing to figure out. Here are a few pointers:

- Powder names and numbers (4064, 4895, Retumbo, etc) are stupid. You can't get any useful info out of a powder's name. Often, the numbers represent govt. contracts numbers. And sometimes different brands have the same number in the powder name - but don't trust that this is the same powder.
- Burn rate and type of powder (ball, extruded) matter a ton. Burn rate is what can get you in trouble real quick. Put rifle powder in a pistol cartridge and you'll most likely end up with a dud, squib and a lot of unburned powder. Put pistol powder in a rifle case and you have a grenade.
- Don't trust one load data source unless you have to. I look at manuals, the powder company's website, and bullet manufacturer website for load data when working up a new load. And whatever you do, don't trust some online forum members load data.
- Buy several powders that have lots of published loads for your caliber. Experiment with below median loadings and work up from there.

[RC20]

Two items.

It does not matter if you use Hornady data on a Sierra bullet as long as the bullet type and weights are close or the same and you are not pushing it (do pay attention to the case and primer used)

Their data is vey safe, as you will note that both actually cover a range of boat tail, flat based, ELD, lead tipped (sometimes as many as 5 or 8 types) under one load table and the weights vary some as well. I don't think more than 5 grains but they do vary.

That is not a license to run screaming through the streets, I can load 2 grains more in anything and be safe.

Always look at least two manuals if you can, if not, stay really low and work up.

B very caution when two disagree on top end, use the more conservative value and start below that.

Bottom end is ok to start with the lowest, I usually use the higher of the low as I have yet to get a good load at the very bottom

[Unclenick]

To take FITASC's point, if you pick a particular Hornady or Sierra bullet, you can email them to request just load data for that bullet and they will send you that at no charge. A manual is a combination of chapters or articles about loading and then a load data section, which usually takes up most of the space. Manuals are worth buying for that added information, but one good one like the Lyman will cover the basic information. Where multiple sources of information are good to look at is for the data, and there is a lot online. You can get PDF files of load data from Alliant, Western (Accurate and Ramshot brands) and Vihtavuori, and the Hodgdon link above will get you Hodgdon, IMR, and some Winchester data.

The bullet company manuals publish a mixture of powder brand information. The reason to look at several sources of data is they will not only use different bullets, but different cases and primers and different lots of powder. These different combinations can change the range of charge weights you want to use a few percent. If your bullet and case and primer combination are not listed, then you find the lowest starting charge listed and begin with that, increasing your test charge 2% for each shot while watching for pressure signs. Once you see any pressure sign, you go back a couple of steps. Unfortunately, few pressure signs are definitive and you need to learn to read them by practice to get a better sense of what is happening.

There is a series of cartridge-specific databooks, but you would do better to put your money into a more general manual like the Lyman book at first. The 50th edition is current, but you may find you can buy copies of the 49th edition for less money, and that will still be fine. Just don't go back too far, as load data eventually becomes obsolete due to changes and improvements.

Back to your original post, this NRA article on powder showed up in my email today and would be worth your time to read.

[Don Fischer]

Word of caution. the data Hornady provides for 6.5x55 is quite a bit different than Nosler. Hornady used the 96 Mauser to develop their load, Nosler used a modern action and barrel. Would have liked to have had Hornady use both the 96 Mauser nd a modern rifle, quite a bit of difference in data for both of them. My 6.5x55 is a mod 70 and I use Nosler data. Do not use if if you don't have a modern rifle.

[CombatDiver]

No, powder isn't powder and that's why they have different powders. They all differ in their burn rates and where's there's similar burn rates you have cleaner burning (aka less visible smoke). The basic unscientific mean of these is in recoil. This is also known as 'jerk' (aka change in velocity). Please please please study up on powders before you load anything!

[RC20]

Good article on powder and some stuff I had not known.