Pistol reliability

[RoughDivider]

All pistols should not have a very light trigger like an SAA. Half the fun of shooting is learning how to be a good DA shooter. To me at least. Also his revolver isn't faulty, just is sensitive to which primers get loaded up. Just like some semis don't like certain brands of anmo.

And yeah I agree, if I was a run of the mill guy (which I am) no way am I taking the side plate off at the range or in the middle of a field to diagnose a problem, a semi is a different story though. Easy enough to pop a slide off.

[TheGuyOfSouthamerica]

If a semi does not like ammo then it is unreliable.

No way a revolver is that sensitive. There is something wrong with the gun

[RoughDivider]

Then you need to be more informed about guns. Just because you think something does not make is so, we've been over this in every thread you respond. Sometimes ammo primers are more/less sensitive, sometimes some ammo isn't hot enough to cycle a gun reliably, sometimes guns aren't designed with certain types of ammo in mind. Take for example the 1911 you were touting earlier, some of them don't reliably feed HP bullets. Sometimes I'm willing to bet ammo manufacturers seat primers to different depths and the firing pin may not get reliable ignition. Anyways I'm over having the same conversations.

[armoredman]

I have had Glocks fail in front of me more than any other brand, to include broken slide and mag release falling out. I generally consider the Glock to be a well made, durable reliable firearm. I qualify annually Expert or Distinguished Expert with the G19/17 - they do not fit me. i do not hate them, but I do not care for them and do not own one. My CZ SP-01 Phantom and P-09 are extremely reliable durable, militarily accepted firearms, and I trust my live and my families lives with them daily.

[DPris]

Last week I finished a 5500-round run through a brand new Ruger American 9.
5000 were BH FMJs.

Did a beginning accuracy test & an ending accuracy test, that FMJ & five other mixed loads.

Lubed once at the beginning, not re-lubed anywhere along the line afterwards.
Never cleaned.
Bone dry after the first 1000 rounds or so.

Exactly one single feedramp failure, at the ending accuracy session, with a light 92-grain all-copper wide-mouthed HP that had such a low recoil impulse it was ejecting brass about 8 inches above the pistol.

Same single mag used throughout.
One VERY reliable pistol.
Denis

[TheGuyOfSouthamerica]

Again. Primers seating to deep? I never managed to do that since my press lever has allways a positive stop in my experience.

Honestly. A revolver not firing you may take the gun to repairs. That is a rarety.
Ask other people. Its very unnormal a revolver not going off.

However if revolvers lock themselves up then there isno quick fix in middle a gun figth.

[jackstrawIII]

So for the sake of conversation, let's say Glocks are the most reliable pistol and will go bang every time.

Can we not? Can we please for the love of God not say that?

Kudos to Glock for convincing everyone that they're the "most" reliable pistol. That's marketing genius... but here's my question: if 10 different guns all shoot through 1000 rounds with no failures, is one really more reliable than the others?

Here are the guns I've personally shot at least 500 times and never had a gun-related failure with:

S&W M&P9
S&W M&P45
CZ SP-01
CZ P-01
CZ PCR
Beretta 92
Walther P99
Walther PPQ
Walther PPS
Sig 220
Glock 19
Springfield 1911
H&K P30

What would possibly lead me to believe that the Glock is the "most" reliable out of them? Ugh.

[vba]

For me Glocks have been an extremely reliable pistol. Most certainly better than my S&W M&P9c that was traded away for another Glock.

And please let's stop with the HK was the first polymer pistol. The VP70 was an albatross, I know, as I used to shoot them back in the day, terrible. HK didn't make another polymer pistol until 1993 (USP) a decade after the Glock 17 was introduced.

Soon after, everyone jumped on the polymer/striker bandwagon and like it or not they are compared to Glock.

[ThomasT]

Unless I load Federal primers and individually inspect each round, ignition is only 90%.

It sounds to me like you have a gun that Bubba has had his fingers in and didn't know what he was doing. Replace the hammer and rebound spring with factory springs. Make sure the strain screw is tightened down all the way and hasn't been ground off. Measure your firing pin protrusion. And since you are using reloads try some fresh factory loads and I bet doing these things will solve your misfiring problem to a 100% reliable gun.

I shoot almost all reloaded ammo in my guns. I never have duds. But my S&W guns all have the factory springs in them. And I only use Winchester and CCI primers.

[ShootistPRS]

Not one of my revolvers have ever failed to fire. I used my 357 in Hunter's Pistol Silhouette for three years without a single problem. I practiced almost every night after work shooting the same load that I carry, hunt, and plink with. 30000 rounds in three years, plus weekend shooting either at the range or at some property where we had "plinking practice" and combat training. 44 years of shooting the same load in both my 357 pistols and never a problem. The loads were/are hot - for Ruger revolvers and Contenders only and I can still shoot 1" groups at 25 yards with them. They have never been to a smith and have received no more than cosmetic mods. I'd say that was 100% reliable which is why I carry it for my EDC. I only have a few hundred rounds though my CZ but it has digested everything I have loaded from the maximum listed load to well below the starting load without a single problem. I don't carry it because it is still an unknown. After I put a few thousand rounds through it I will make a determination as to its reliability and suitability for a defensive gun.

[RickB]

Quote:
Unless I load Federal primers and individually inspect each round, ignition is only 90%.

It sounds to me like you have a gun that Bubba has had his fingers in and didn't know what he was doing. Replace the hammer and rebound spring with factory springs. Make sure the strain screw is tightened down all the way and hasn't been ground off. Measure your firing pin protrusion. And since you are using reloads try some fresh factory loads and I bet doing these things will solve your misfiring problem to a 100% reliable gun.

If you consider the 'smiths at S&W to be Bubba, you're right. I paid $125 for the "Master Action Job", and the only real value was chamfering of the chambers. When I got it back, it performed exactly the same with the strain screw tight, that it had with the strain screw backed-off a little, prior.
I shoot nothing but handloads, and using Federal primers isn't a huge inconvenience when they're available, but I don't have to load "special" ammo for any other gun I own.

[mr bolo]

BERETTA 92

my M1911A1's are not as reliable as the BERETTA 92

[TheGuyOfSouthamerica]

I believe the Berettas 92 and clones are that reliable due to its 13 lbs spring versus the Glock type springs are about 18 lbs.

So the weaker 13 lbs spring is pushed back easier by weak and hot loads. As well the Berettas must be kind of 2 stage since the round first overcomes the weak mainspring and then cocks the hammer spring. It must be an inertia thing.

Glock pistols: the round first overcomes a stiff 18 lbs spring and has less inertia left to overcome the stiff striker spring.

That is why I figure the Beretta 92 design is constructionwise more reliable than a Glock.

Would be nice to weigh the slides of the Beretta 92 and a Glock slide.

Just my idea.

[Mike38]

Revolvers are anything but 100% reliable.

Shhhh.... don't let my old crusty $200 Taurus M83 hear you say that. So far, never had a failure and the thing is a laser beam out to 25 yards.

Yea, I know, fallible man made it and it will fail someday......

[ThomasT]

RickB I have thought about your post. Its a shame you spent money for an action job that is not reliable. Especially from S&W. I have never owned a Smith that I thought needed a full blown action job. Most times a very slightly lighter trigger return spring was all I ever did. So I still say replace the new springs with factory original springs. Hopefully they returned them with the gun.

Since you are using reloads check to see what your primer depth is. Too deep and you WILL get misfires. What are you priming with? My buddy has one of these and used it to prime the cases for his .270 and started getting misfires.

http://rcbs.com/Products/Priming/Too...ming-Tool.aspx

This tool has such a mechanical advantage that it would seat primers noticeably below the surface of the case head. It took me a long time to convince him this was the problem. He is a bit of a know-it-all and didn't like advice from me. (I'm a bit of a know-it-all too) Until then this rifle had been perfectly reliable for the last 35 years.

Primers should be seated so that at most they are flush with the case and best is just a teeny tiny bit below the case. Use a straight edge and you should see just a tiny bit of light under the edge of the straight edge over the primer. They also make a primer gauge but I have never felt the need for one. I hope I have gave you something that helps.

[BigMikey76]

99% reliability is not good enough. A personal defense gun has to be 100% reliable. If your gun will fail to be usable 1% of the time how can you depend on it to save your life 100% of the time

If 99% isn't good enough, then you shouldn't trust ANY gun. All guns will fail, eventually. There are no exceptions. Otherwise, why would people bother practicing failure drills when they could just get a Glock and not have to worry about it?

[TheGuyOfSouthamerica]

I just found out that Glock has an margin of 68% (net win) from each Glock sold.
Quote:
Simpler than most pistols, the Glock costs relatively little to make. In a 1994 patent lawsuit in the U.S., Glock estimated its profit margin per pistol at 68%. The guns typically sell for $450 to $600 in U.S. retail gun stores. The Glock's polymer frame is formed from a mold, not from the more conventional tooled steel.
Source https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ath-to-profits

Since in another forum (Austrian forum Pulverdampf) I read Glock has its own mines for steel now, I assume the net win margin may have risen to between 75% to 80% for each pistol.
Children miners and slave work pays!

So each Glock or any polymer pistol can be sold very well for 137$ to 150$ with an reasonable win margin based on its actual price of over 550$ at Academys. Any polymer pistol NEVER should price more than 200$ and should be normally at 150$.

[rodfac]

It sounds to me like you have a gun that Bubba has had his fingers in and didn't know what he was doing. Replace the hammer and rebound spring with factory springs. Make sure the strain screw is tightened down all the way and hasn't been ground off. Measure your firing pin protrusion.

A Smith & Wesson with problems igniting ANY primer needs a factory spec set of springs at a minimum. Can't say why the "action job" let this get by, but any S&W revolver should be as near to 100% reliable as any machine made by man. Rod

[dgludwig]

99% reliability is not good enough. A personal defense gun has to be 100% reliable.

If you insist on arming yourself only with a weapon that is 100% reliable all the time, every time; you might want to think about which knife to get. If you keep a good knife sharp and out of the rain, it'll be 100% reliable-something you can never say about any firearm ever made; no matter how much it cost nor who made it.

[Mike38]

Any polymer pistol NEVER should price more than 200$ and should be normally at 150$

That would be nice, but someone has to pay for R&D, Testing, Marketing, Engineering, Administration, Payroll, Maintenance on Building and Machines, and probably the biggest costs, Lawyers and Insurance.

[TheGuyOfSouthamerica]

I did an extensive Investigation about one sample Plastik pistol Company: Glock.
Here on this thread: starting at post #92 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...=584185&page=4

Gaston Glocks Research and Developement was this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTUlk682BAs

Translation: They put a row of different pistols including the new Glock 17 on a table for new Recruits of the Austrian Army. They showed them about 10 minutes how to handle them and after 2 days NOBODY wanted to shoot other than the Glock. Reason: there are no Switches nor Levers to mess with and it makes "puff puff puff". The recruits simply were overstressed from Levers and Buttons of other pistols.
Second Hollywood launched really the Glock 17 to the market after showing up the pistol in movies

This does not Sound as much R&D

An poster says in the "Glock" book Gaston himself states the Glock has an production cost of about 100$ and he earns 200000$ a day from the pistol.

[AzShooter]

Over the years I've had four Glocks and each one ran perfectly. My 17L had 60K rounds through it without a failure. All were reloads and at least half were pushing major calibre out of a 9 MM.

These guns functioned stock but after many upgrades they still worked 100%. In competition and in life I can't afford to have my gun jam or malfunction.

My Smith Revolvers have been as successful as my Glocks. All of my Smiths have had action jobs with trigger pulls as low as 4.5 lbs double action. They required Federal Primers to work but would always detonate the primers.

MY last S&W, a 929 in 9 mm had over 30K rounds though it this past year. It would group into 1 inch at 25 yards from a rest.

My lastest gun to function 100% is my Ruger Mark IV. It feeds anything I put into it except hollow points so I no longer try to shoot hollow points. CCI Mini Mags are what I use for competition and I practice with CCI Standard Velocity or Federal Automatch.

[mikejonestkd]

Pretty much all of my semi auto handguns regularly run 500+ rounds without a malfunction.

several have easily gone over 1000+ without a hiccup.

My list of top contenders include:
A colt combat elite
A springfield range officer
A dan wesson valor
A beretta 92FS
A glock 17, 2nd gen
A ruger mark 1
A browning buckmark camper.
I picked up a 9mm shield in Jan and it already has 1000 through it without a single malfunction

All of my revolvers run hundreds if not thousands of rounds without a problem. Most are rugers or smiths.

[Road_Clam]

My Opap AK-47 oops, sorry were talking handguns

My G22 Glock (as long as I have the trigger in stock configuration). I tried screwing around with an aftermarket lightened Glocktriggers 3.5# trigger and thereafter I started having light primer strike issues. Put the pistol back to oem stock and I have never had any cycling issues. My new FNX 45 is also a stellar running handgun but I can't brag relibility yet as I only have about 600 rounds shot but again not a single hiccup..

[ThomasT]

but any S&W revolver should be as near to 100% reliable as any machine made by man. Rod

I couldn't have said it better.