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Old July 16, 2018, 11:57 PM   #1
ninosdemente
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Reloading 223 suggestions

I am interested/searching/reading to load .223 Remington. Looking at videos as well. I have read a couple of online sites where Hornady V-Max has been getting good reviews as well as some threads I have read here where it has been mentioned a few times also.

It is for a Savage 12FV with 1:9 twist rate. If I am correct, its 22 Cal and .224 diameter, right? It's just for paper on range. I plan on using IMR 4064 as I already have that for 30-06. Am going to get CCI primers for small rifle.

Would 60gr be fine? What other good/better options are there?
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Old July 17, 2018, 04:11 AM   #2
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Nino,
You have essentially the same rifle as my wife's Savage 110FP.
We are mostly shooting the 69gr. MatchKing and Tipped MatchKing.
With the 1:9 twist you should be able to go to 73gr bullet weight.
Bear in mind the further you shoot, the heavier the bullet you want, generally speaking.

Hornady makes a fine match bullet also, and is usually a bit less expensive.
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Old July 17, 2018, 04:35 AM   #3
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I have not used 4064 in .223. I'm thinking it would probably work,but its a bit slow.
In my experience with 1 in 9 twist,a real sweet spot is the 69 gr Match King or Nosler Custom Comp with Varget.. I prefer you look up your own powder charges but I was using about 25 gr.

Those bullets may be less than spectacular if your plan is sudden death to varmints.They might slip through a prairie dog.

the 60 gr Nosler Varmint Ballistic tip and Benchmark is a great combination.
It will expand and deliver quick,humane kills.We found it very accurate

Last edited by HiBC; July 17, 2018 at 05:27 AM.
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Old July 17, 2018, 05:02 AM   #4
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A hidden gem for paper punching 223 are the Barnes Matchburner 69g . 20 bucks for box of 100 and I used data from Hornady to find a load quickly. Your long barrel may help while using the 4064 powder. Your charge weights may be a smidge higher then with CFE 223 or Varget. H335 is a good compromise
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Old July 17, 2018, 05:26 AM   #5
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Bfg,I'm not arguing,I'm asking.Will the longer copper Barnes bullet stabilize in a1 in 9 twist?

I'll agree H-335 is great for 55 gr bullets. But for me,velocity and accuracy,with a clean burn in an AR, for 69 gr bullets Varget is sweet.
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Old July 17, 2018, 05:47 AM   #6
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69 grain bullets and Varget work in well for me
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Old July 17, 2018, 06:21 AM   #7
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A Quickload run says IMR-4064 is too slow. You will run out of case capacity before you reach the round's potential. Hornady did not test IMR-4064 with 60 gr Vmax. Good suggestions in this thread. I use Ramshot TAC and Hodgdon CFE223 with good results. Hornady got their best velocities with CFE223 and BL-C(2). CCI 400 are fine. If you go with BL-C(2), you might try CCI 450.
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Old July 17, 2018, 06:37 AM   #8
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H335 will do what you want with most bullets. Win 748 is another 223 powder but is dirty. I shoot 40gr Vmax in my 12v and use it for PDs
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Old July 17, 2018, 07:49 AM   #9
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I agree with the 69grn SMK or alternate if you are looking to punch paper... it's what I use and I've not found anything better in my 1:9 Colt H-Bar. I use H335, but there may be something better. With the long 69grn bullet, you will be compressing that IMR4064, and probably most stick powders before you get your velocity where you want, or at least that is my experience with IMRs 3031, 4895, and 4064.
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Old July 17, 2018, 07:58 AM   #10
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I have a FV12 in 223, a good accurate load for mine is 23.0g Varget & the Nosler 55g flat based tipped Varmegeddon. The Nosler 55g FBHP with 23.0g Varget shoots the same size groups. 23.0g of Varget is at the bottom of the powder charge per Nosler web site load data.
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Old July 17, 2018, 10:19 AM   #11
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1:9 twist should be good for upto mid 70's bullets no problem. The big barrels on the Savages are notorious for being accurate and loving mid range pills for their caliber. My 12FV in 308 is addicted to 168g pills of any brand and shoots them lights out. Hornady, Sierra, Berger, Barnes...all 165/8 offerings just work and work well in that thing. So find that sweet weight ( if I were a betting man I would say the 60/72 range for that puppy)and play with powders. Varget is just easy sauce for loads and BL(C)2 is pretty good stuff from what I hear. CFE223 is amazing for low and midrange weights but had lesser results with the 77-82g offerings for my Mossberg MVP LC in 556/223. But my buddies 12FV build chews up his 65 hornady's with CFE223 and elcrapo brass ( he doesn't sort or care about brass being the same) all day and keeps up with us on the score cards when we play 300 yard battleship targets .
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Old July 17, 2018, 10:19 AM   #12
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Reloading 223 suggestions

I use Accurate LT-32 and its finer powder meters well and doesn’t compress until max loads with the longer bullets above 75gr.

Varget has a cult following in 223 reloading, it is a stick powder similar in size to 4064, 2495, 4895 so it may have to compress to get max loads too, I haven’t used it yet but have some to try soon.

Hornady makes 73gr open tip match (OTM) equivalent of the Sierra MatchKing and a 75gr as well (marginally stable for 1:9, will depend on the gun) as well as Hornady 75gr ELD-M and 70gr GMX (solid gilding copper). All those are excellent choices for out to 600 yards. The Hornady bullets go on sale regularly at MidwayUSA so if you go with Hornady consider buying large bulk only when that sale goes on.

If you’re going to stick to 100 yards or so the Hornady 53gr OTM bullets with spire tip flat base (SPFB) are really cost effective. I use them for my Mini14 which is 1:9 twist. Of course accuracy is not my biggest concern with that platform but it works quite well. You just don’t want those bullets for out past 200 or so, ballistics suck.

Winchester WSR primers work fine for me, I have a large store of S&B small rifle but haven’t tried enough of them to say how well they work, others seem to like them ok.


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Last edited by lordmorgul; July 17, 2018 at 10:32 AM.
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Old July 17, 2018, 10:27 AM   #13
lordmorgul
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Reloading 223 suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC View Post
Bfg,I'm not arguing,I'm asking.Will the longer copper Barnes bullet stabilize in a1 in 9 twist?



I'll agree H-335 is great for 55 gr bullets. But for me,velocity and accuracy,with a clean burn in an AR, for 69 gr bullets Varget is sweet.

I won’t speak for him or Barnes... but the Hornady 70gr GMX states it will not stabilize in 1:8 although it seems ok in my 20” barrel at 1:8, it’s probably marginal. That bullet is:
70 gr Hornady GMX Monolithic HPBT
Lead-free solid gilding copper
1.047” 70 gr HPBT, G1 0.350

The 75g gr Hornady OTM is stable in 1:8 and marginal in 1:9
75 gr Hornady BTHP Match
0.985” 75 gr OTM, G1 0.395

The 75 gr ELD M cannot load to magazine length so I use it for single load high power 600 yards. Will not be stable in 1:9.
75 gr Hornady ELD Match Single Load
1.115” bullet, 0.43 G1, 0.22 G7
0.130” ballistic tip, up from 0.985” 75 gr OTM


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Last edited by lordmorgul; July 17, 2018 at 10:33 AM.
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Old July 17, 2018, 02:58 PM   #14
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Varget is a cult following in many cartridges.
CFE223 while giving good velocities had a high ES/DS. Not goot for long range target or varmint shooting.
Are the Barnes Matchburners a monolith? If so how did you find load data from Hornady?
Win 748, and Alliants Varmint and Power Pro 2000 work well in the 24" bolt rifles the OP and i are shooting.
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Old July 17, 2018, 03:09 PM   #15
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Ninosdemente,

If you are shooting a powder as slow as 4064, you only want heavier bullets. Otherwise you can get in some secondary pressures that can ring your barrel. The burn rate of 4064 is about like Varget (AR2208, sold in this country as Varget, was designed to compete with 4064), but it is less dense, making case filling more trouble. However, a long drop tube can pack it down quite a bit. The downside is, that makes it burn even more slowly.
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Old July 17, 2018, 04:00 PM   #16
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I have to admit I am in the Varget cult. I shot some 80 Bergers yesterday and had a 10 shot group yesterday with 7 of them making about a 5/8s hole in the middle and the other 3 were within an inch of center at 100. Gun gets 1/2 - 3/4 MOA groups consistently at 300 with that load

However I had good luck with 4895, CFE223, and TAC also. With a 8 Twist my rifle prefers either either Berger and Sierra 80 gns in a virtual tie. The lighter bullets (52 grain) shot best with TAC and the 69 grainers liked the CFE 223. Groupings were inconsistent for me with anything lighter than a 69 and the 69's were sub MOA but so so averaging 5/8 to 3.4 MOA at 100. 77 non tipped SMK's were ok but no bragging groups

That's with a 26 inch bolt gun. Savage 10 action (Stevens bolt, long story), Criterion stainless barrel 8 twist, and a $150 Midway USA stock with a strap on cheekrest. Ugliest gun within 3 counties
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Old July 17, 2018, 06:50 PM   #17
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I used Varget for a while. Worked great, but I got tired of trying to shoehorn in enough powder with some weight bullets. Tried AA2230 and BL(C)-2 and finally standardized on H335 for 65 gr bullets and smaller.
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Old July 17, 2018, 07:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Am going to get CCI primers for small rifle.

And that is what you would think....but, I find with 223, that cci450’s might give you better Sd.

I find Hornady and Sierra bullets to be winners...something 65-73 gr for a 1:9 twist.

For a bolt gun, it is probably worth starting with new brass.


Don’t give up on that Savage until you are under 3/4”!
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Old July 17, 2018, 08:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
And that is what you would think....but, I find with 223, that cci450’s might give you better Sd.
Funny you should mention that. I did an informal test with my H-Bar, using an identical load... H335 with a 55grn bullet... and the 400's gave me better consistency and velocity, over the 450's. Just what I found... so if you are working up a load, might not hurt to try both.
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Old July 17, 2018, 08:37 PM   #20
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I tyink that one in nine would be a tack driver out to 600 with 69 SMK's . IMR 4064 would be a bit slower than Varget or CFE 223 but would work. If you just want a 100 - 300 load try some of the varmint flat based bullets. My rifle did not care for them but yours might.
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Old July 17, 2018, 10:44 PM   #21
ninosdemente
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Thank you very much guys for the replies. I didn't expect to get many replies as I have tried looking for threads on .223 and there are many but not what I was looking for.

The only reason why I wanted to use IMR 4064 because in Lyman 50th book, it is on the list where it starts at 23.8gr. I guess I have to read on how the burning rate affects the load. This I have no idea on how it affects. Some of the powders mentioned are also in the book such as Varget (which has been mentioned more), H335, 748 (what does it mean by dirty?), BL(C)2, to name a few.

Reason why I choose 60gr is at the moment that is what I found at Cabela's. I don't don't go online to get items. Not that I am a cheapo and don't want to pay shipping etc... just the Cabela's near me is very close and don't mind driving to window shop while I'm there as well. Lol.

At the moment, the range I go to reaches up to 200 yds. I do intend to go further. But when I feel confident to do so... it's a bit of a drive. So at the moment I am stuck where I am at... don't mind as I still have a lot of shooting to do in order to progress with skill level.

How does certain brass affect a load as well? I currently have Remington brass that I kept when shot. Did buy other one box of each of the following American Eagle (two different boxes one is MSR and the other has stencil looking font), Frontier, Winchester, and PPU.

But maybe I do have to venture out from Cabela's once in a while. Lol.
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Old July 17, 2018, 11:19 PM   #22
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IMO,if you are going to seriously get into handloading, the next time you go to Cabelas ,buy at least 200 rds of virgin brass and 4ea 50 rd plastic ammo boxes.
I like WW brass,myself.

Primers,bullets,etc come 100 to a box. Load in lots of 100. You will have the 100 you are shooting up,and a reserve 100 ready to go.

It will be easy to keep organized.

No need to toss your variety brass,use it!.Keep it separate. Use it till its wore out. Perfect for a different bullet experiment,etc.
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Old July 18, 2018, 05:33 AM   #23
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Barnes Match burners 69g from Cabela's performance was near enough to Hornadys 69g hpbt that I used the load manual from Hornady and started low and worked up after eliminated the powders that burned slowest( using short 16.5 barrel in MVP LC)
As for brass I agree that Winchester brass is a solid budget brass that performs above it's price point. Sierra MK are considered the standard for target shooting by many. I don't bother though with thier newer TMKs.
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Old July 18, 2018, 06:30 AM   #24
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I shoot 77 and 80 grain SMKs. The 77s love 8208 XBR and the 80s love CFE223. I tried Varget but my 308 loves it. My bolt gun is 1 in 7 and my AR is 1 in 8 though.
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Old July 18, 2018, 08:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
How does certain brass affect a load as well? I currently have Remington brass that I kept when shot. Did buy other one box of each of the following American Eagle (two different boxes one is MSR and the other has stencil looking font), Frontier, Winchester, and PPU.
The purpose of new brass is to have quality brass from one manufacturer and one lot fire formed to your rifle. This will mostly cover the case fit to your rifle. This should be enough to get under 1 moa, if the rifle likes the bullet and can shoot.
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