Help with a new shooter.

[kmw1954]

The background is this. A few nights ago our daughter had an attempted break-in that was deterred by two large dogs being let loose. During the encounter one of the dogs was severely hurt. The Sherriff believe the perp has a large bite wound and the hospitals have been alerted.

Her mother and now my wife would not allow guns in her house so the children have no real exposure to firearms other than a small amount from their uncles.

So the daughter then asked mom if I would teach her about guns and how to shoot. I have taught mom a lot and she is now a very good shot and is very comfortable around guns.

Teaching the wife was one thing because we could do it casually and talk about it in comfort and if she wasn't in the mood to talk we could easily drop the subject. I feel that with the daughter the environment will not be the same or as effective.

So she was over last night and we talked about basic rules of gun handling and safety. We also talked of the responsibility of having a gun in the house with small children. Now the next step will be a visit to the range and actually let her do some shooting and gun handling.

Anyways I will be interested in hearing suggestion. I feel I can teach her the basics and get her to a safe state of gun handling. Her mother thinks so too for whatever that's worth.

[kenny53]

I would start with a 22. No recoil to speak of and easy to handle. Then work up to 38 or 9mm. I would skip .380, most are smaller guns and can be snappy when fired. Good luck.

[Aguila Blanca]

How old is she? You mentioned children -- does she have children? If so, haow many and what ages?

Married? In a committed, living-together relationship, or not living with father of child/children?

[kmw1954]

Aguila those are pretty personal questions that I don't believe need to be asked or answered here. They have no bearing on the question put forward.

[44 AMP]

They have no bearing on the question put forward.

Actually the answers to such questions (home situation) do matter, but only as an aid to offering concise advice to the situation. No need to answer anything you feel personal, we'll just use some common situations, and you decide what, if anything applies in your case.

What I mean is, that having children in the home, a spouse, or boyfriend, live in, or otherwise, and who they are makes a difference in what should be priorities concerning storage and safety in the home.

for one example, with potential legal issues is, is the spouse/boyfriend/SO a prohibited person?? Does the daughter even know??

THAT MATTERS.

If that doesn't apply to your situation, fine, it doesn't matter. But, if it does, then certain things must be done or one could break the law, without even realizing it.

If there are no children in the household, then we don't need a large emphasis about guns and child safety.

I would recommend small steps, teaching safety and focusing on shooting as sport/recreation, a martial art, an eye/hand coordination task to be mastered for the enjoyment of doing so. Do not downplay the defensive use, but don't emphasize it above all else to a very beginner.

And, don't scare them. One easy thing to do with a total beginner is to try to do too much, too soon. A .22 is the traditional starting point.

Anyone who can competently handle a .22 isn't as well armed as they might be, but they ARE armed with a deadly weapon. When they feel ready for something bigger, help them with it. Don't push them into something they aren't ready for, that can do more harm than good.
Good Luck.

[KY_blkout]

If it all possible the first few times shooting try and take her somewhere where there are no other people shooting, that will ease her anxiety and be easier to talk about things she may not understand fully.

[kmw1954]

44AMP Those concerns you address are already thought of and part of the equation in this. If there were any question of doubt as to her legally possessing a firearm we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Yes the safe storage of a firearm is an area the we need to address because there are young children in the house.

One of the items I've looked at for that purpose is something like this. https://www.cabelas.com/product/shoo...2.uts?slotId=2
Something that will lock yet still allow quick access.

Most of that isn't what concerns me this time. What does is am I going to be able to communicate with her on a level that works for both of us. Is she going to feel comfortable asking questions she might feel are stupid? I didn't have that issue when I was instructing my wife.

The other question that no one can answer is, is she prepared to pull a firearm and possibly take another's life if it becomes necessary. I can't even honestly answer that question because I've never been put in that position. I believe I am but who can be sure?

I know her moral values and her personality which puts the question in my mind. But I also understand the mothers need to protect their young.

So I guess the question is more that I feel competent to teach her the basics and safety concerns but not sure I can provide the other aspects such as defensive tactics or when it is time to fight or run.

[blackwidowp61]

Start her on the .22 and then put her in a hunter safety course and/or a concealed carry course. Everyone will be pretty much on an equal level in those classes which might make her feel more comfortable. Just my .02.

(edit) Also tell her that there are absolutely no dumb questions when it comes to learning how to use a firearm!

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by kmw1954

Aguila those are pretty personal questions that I don't believe need to be asked or answered here. They have no bearing on the question put forward.

As an NRA certified instructor (including in Personal Protection in the Home), based on the questions suggested by your opening post I think my questions have a lot of bearing on the questions put forward. How long did it take your wife to become comfortable with guns, and to be moderately proficient at putting holes in paper? Assume that's how long it will take your daughter to become moderately proficient at putting holes in paper. Defending the home against potentially violent aggressors is an entirely different matter than putting holes in paper under controlled conditions. Then there's the implied issue of balancing having a firearm accessible for defense yet secure from one or more children.

I understand if you choose not to provide the information I requested, but then you'll have to understand if I choose not to offer my advice, since I don't feel I have been given nearly enough information to understand the situation.

And I think yoiu either misunderstood 44 AMP's question, or chose to blow it off. We'll assume that your daughter isn't a prohibited person or you wouldn't be (or shouldn't be) considering teaching her to shoot. If there are children, there is (or was) presumably a male significant other. What's his status? If there is any significant other around (male or female, father of the children or not), if that person is a prohibited person it complicates things a lot.

We're not asking for her hame, address and telephone number, only for the conditions that can affect the advice you have asked for.

I'm done here.

[kmw1954]

Aguila not a problem as all responses to an open forum are all voluntary, you haven't committed to anything. But no I'm still not answering those questions on an open public forum and even if we were in person that wouldn't be provided. Her age, how many children and their ages is not pertinent as to whether she will be able to learn to shoot or handle a gun.

As a Certified NRA Instructor do you ask those question to all your clients?

[Ed4032]

Have you looked at the Cornered Cat website. It addresses many of the issues in particular for women. http://www.corneredcat.com

[K_Mac]

As a result of an attempted break in your daughter has expressed interest in you teaching her how to safely handle guns. She has little experience and there are small children in the home. These are the facts we have to work with, correct?

First, a short story: My daughter is a single mother with four children. I've talked to her about having a gun in her home many times. She's fired my guns, is familiar with the safety rules, and understands safe storage of weapons. She is not completely comfortable with having a gun in her home because she understands that there is far more to home/self defense with a firearm than knowing the four rules and owning a biometric safe.

Your willingness to teach her the basics is a great thing. Taking her to shoot is an essential step in preparing her for home/self defense with a firearm. It is only the first step though. She has to be willing to get some professional training and attention to understand the use of lethal force. It is for this reason my daughter doesn't have or carry a gun. Making the ongoing commitment requires time and effort. Without that, they are both better off with their dogs.

[Wag]

Whenever I teach a new shooter, I spend as much as an hour with them in my living room or garage. No guns are ever handled during this session.

I'll pull up YouBube and show video on the four basic gun safety rules and one or two videos on sight picture and sight alignment. If it seems necessary, I'll find a video on how to use any of the specific guns we're going to shoot.

All of that video time should be less than 20 minutes, including any Q&A we have about it. We can fill the rest of an hour or hour and a half with other questions about the law, etc.

At the range, I use a single shot .22 LR. It just makes life a whole lot easier to deal with. No jams, no cycling problems and using the rifle reduces the chances of a new shooter inadvertently pointing the rifle somewhere other than downrange. I also take a 10/22 for the moment when they get comfortable with the single shot.

I like to start with iron sights. I'll take a scope with me because most people are very curious about scopes thanks to the movies and I'll teach them how to use them.

It's also best to use rolling targets like cans or bottles or Ritz crackers, steel targets, etc. where feedback is instantaneous. New shooters don't get quite the same thrill when they're drilling holes in paper. If you do have to use paper only targets because of range rules, take a spotting scope with you to minimize walking time and waiting time.

And definitely have fun. You can take the fear factor out of a shooting day by comparing shooting to other dangerous activities like rock climbing, sky diving, motorcycles or even just driving a car. Explain that such things are always dangerous but if you follow the rules, it's no more dangerous to shoot. You just have to learn how.

--Wag--

[Targa]

I taught my wife firearm basics and her first shooting experience was with me using a fullsize 9mm, I started her on a S&W 686 but she hated the revolver.
I decided that a good way to spend some time together was to take a firearms safety class together. It was alot of fun with good instruction, better than going to a movie....

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by kmw1954

As a Certified NRA Instructor do you ask those question to all your clients?

For students in Basic Pistol, who are taking the basic class because it's what this state requires for a carry permit -- no.

But your opening post implied more considerations than simply picking up the bare minimum raining required to persuade the state to issue a permission slip. For someone who comes to a Personal Protection class expressing an urgent necessity to be able to defend the home against aggressors, then I need as much information as I can get about the specific situation before I can provide advice that will be potentially helpful, and won't possibly be counterproductive.

[riffraff]

Hopefully the dog is gonna be OK? I think if I was truly concerned about protecting home & property that would be my #1 protection - a few 50+ lb sturdy/athletic dogs (and not 2 pugs and a pointer/beagle like I've got today )..

[kmw1954]

Thank you everyone for your time and responses. I am quite sure she is more than capable of learning to shoot and to properly and safely handle and store a gun. She is a very active and athletic person. with what I hope is above average intelligence. Once again I have had some friends suggest shotguns for home defense and that has crossed my mind.

My questions revolve more around the psyche of gun ownership and self defense. 1. is she capable or would the gun become a hindrance. As suggested, is she better off with big dogs? 2. is do I have the knowledge and patience to train her properly. My thought is no or I wouldn't be asking the questions.

I don't know why I feel so different about teaching her over how I was able to teach my wife. Maybe because with the wife I knew I had time and there was no hurry.

[Brian Pfleuger]

As suggested above, not just the website but the book, Cornered Cat.

The auther is Kathy Jackson, our very own staff member Pax. She is a recognized authority on all the issues you raise.

[KY_blkout]

I don't think anyone here will be able to answer those questions for you being nobody knows you or her personally or knows the entire grasp of the situation.

[K_Mac]

The only way for her to determine if she has the temperament necessary is to get some professional training in my opinion. Whether she, or any of us has completely answered the question of whether we can kill another human in self defense ultimately is only answered in the fight.

I am confident in my answer to the question and my abilities. I am not confident that I am able to instruct anyone in the mindset and skills needed, especially a woman. The real question is whether she is willing to spend the time, effort and money needed to answer the question for herself.

[kmw1954]

So this is were we are this afternoon. The daughter called twice this morning before I was awake to ask if we were going to the range. We finally got there around noon and we were the only ones there which was very nice. We could take our time and talk as we shot.

She was not intimidated by any means and looked excited. Before we started to shoot we talked with the guy that was there as the owner was out teaching an outdoor class. We talked about what training classes they offer as I trust Brian the owner of the shop who is also an instructor. He also mentioned that the shop was looking to start a women's only beginners class for those that feel intimidated my being with a bunch of men. This shop also does tactical training.

So we were there for a little more than an hour and she shot 5 different guns, the last being my Witness 45acp. Of everything she shot she said she liked my Taurus PT92C the best. Said she liked the balance, size, feel and just the way it fit her hand. And it showed as at 7yds she was all over the center of the target. At least we learned that she doesn't like the smaller guns or the 45acp..

She did leave her phone number for Brian to call her back about classes so we will see where it goes.

She has also commented that she will not bring a gun into the house w/o first having a lock box to but it in. So it shows she thinking correctly.

[akguy47]

Originally Posted by riffraff

Hopefully the dog is gonna be OK? I think if I was truly concerned about protecting home & property that would be my #1 protection - a few 50+ lb sturdy/athletic dogs (and not 2 pugs and a pointer/beagle like I've got today )..

I have six English Bulldogs. The perp wouldn't have a large bite. He would still have a bulldog attached to him. Mine chase full grown moose out of the yard. The sign on the fence reads " know your blood type it helps EMS"