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September 14, 2016, 08:24 AM | #26 | |
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BA, the issue isn't Monday morning quarterbacking, but analysis itself and the conclusions you drew from it.
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You have said you don't think there was a deadman switch because of the timing and how the terrorist can be clearly seen fiddling about his body. It is a very blurry video. What is clear to be seen? Was it clear enough that you saw the terrorist getting shot or did you just see the terrorist fall to the ground? Did you see the cop get shot? He was shot, you know? He did survive, something you apparently did not know. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-hospital.html What is in the terrorist's hands at the time? Can you see that? What was the status of the officer's gun? Had it been damaged in the exchange of gunfire? Was he out of ammo? What you seem to be failing to understand is that the officer's decision cannot be based on after-the-fact, multiple viewings of the situation. YOU determined that there was no deadman switch. You apparently think that the officer should have been able to arrive at the same conclusion, hence we was wrong for running away. But you didn't make that decision in real time like he did and you could not see what he was seeing. What you also fail to realize is that if he made the wrong assessment and there was a deadman switch, killing the terrorist would have resulted in his immediate death...since he was standing at point blank range, as you noted. Now, what is the prudent decision for a person who hopes to remain alive? Shoot the terrorist in the head and maybe blow up immediately or evacuate the area? Remember, there are no do-overs. You don't get to have the foresight of watching the video many times and counting clock seconds to determine what will happen. You have to decide on the fly, in real time, and if you guess wrong, BOOM!
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"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
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September 14, 2016, 08:50 AM | #27 |
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Join Date: May 20, 2008
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Double naught spy,
Thanks for the additional information and input. Judging by it, you may well be right and I may well be wrong. It's nice to see a tactics and training thread end in agreement. If only by admission of assumptions. I still don't think there was a dead switch though. BA |
November 21, 2016, 06:47 PM | #28 |
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Join Date: February 9, 2016
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This is an interesting scenario that one should be aware of.
On the face of it, it would be out of policy (and probably illegal) to use lethal force on a subject that was downed and disarmed, but the suicide vest is something to check for nowadays, I suppose. If you saw the subject wearing explosives, it could be reasonable to use lethal force to prevent them from triggering the device. I don't know about deadman switches and possibly time or command detonating devices, so probably the best course of action would indeed be to clear the area. I will train to consider the possibility of explosive vests, then make an immediate decision. Immediately clearing the area is probably the way to go. The Turkish cop did a good job, and I hope he survived. |
November 21, 2016, 07:23 PM | #29 |
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Join Date: July 9, 2007
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Never thought I'd type this here, but we have found something less relevant than debating the best caliber for a charging bear.
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November 21, 2016, 08:17 PM | #30 | |
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Quote:
Your average American is much more likely to have dealt with a suicide attacker or mass shooter (normally also a suicide attacker) at some point than with a charging bear. When you throw in the millions of Americans that served in Iraq and Afghanistan it really firms up.
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"Tragedy has been and will always be with us. Somewhere right now, evil people are planning evil things. All of us will do everything meaningful, everything we can do to prevent it, but each horrible act can’t become an axe for opportunists to cleave the very Bill of Rights that binds us." |
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November 21, 2016, 08:34 PM | #31 |
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Thanks for the link DNS. I wondered whether the officer survived. It seemed from the video that he had time to get away and I'm glad he did.
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November 21, 2016, 08:56 PM | #32 |
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Old Bill, I hear you. But while more Americans have faced mass shootings and terrorists than bears I doubt that more of us have had to make split second decisions about dead man switches- here in the United States. Obviously that equation changes dramatically for those who served in combat.
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November 22, 2016, 08:11 AM | #33 |
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That is true. Most people are going to do the smart thing an run as quickly as their feet will carry them in the other direction away from any attack. That strategy may or may not work for terrorists but it won't work with a bear at all.
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"Tragedy has been and will always be with us. Somewhere right now, evil people are planning evil things. All of us will do everything meaningful, everything we can do to prevent it, but each horrible act can’t become an axe for opportunists to cleave the very Bill of Rights that binds us." |
November 22, 2016, 09:27 AM | #34 |
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Removed. Already cited.
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Show me the data Last edited by psyfly; November 22, 2016 at 09:33 AM. |
November 23, 2016, 07:20 PM | #35 | |
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Just so there's no misunderstandings, I don't think a person is morally or legally justified in shooting an assailant who's down and out of the fight. When the threat is over, I'm over. |
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November 26, 2016, 08:08 PM | #36 | ||
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