Easing into shotgun reloading

[nhyrum]

Originally Posted by cdoc42

Re: primers: from 1988 Hercules Reloaders' Guide:



CCI 109 and CCI 209 are basically identical and can be interchanged

CCI 209M (Magnum) is "hotter" and cannot be substituted for CCI 109 or 209. Use 209M only as listed

Rem 209 is "hotter" and cannot be substituted for Rem 97* primers (**)

Rem 209P is not interchangeable with Rem 209



**My carton of Remington primers is labeled 97* (209)

Another thing to add to this, is the European hulls take a slightly larger primer. It's almost like berdan vs boxer.

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[Metal god]

Hey everyone you all have been great and I’d like to thank all that have posted so far . It took awhile but my manual and hulls finally shipped . So now I need some wads and #4 buck or 00-buck . Any links to the buck shot would be great and I'll see if my local place has any . Although not a must I think I’d like to use plated or coated shot , again not a must if its a good/great price I don’t care then .

I’m going to use my HS-6 because I have several pounds and don’t like it much for handgun loading . Hodgdon has both #4 and 00 using HS-6 and Win 209 primers . The wads for each are different WAA12F114 for 00 and WAA12R for the #4 . They seem pretty cheap so I’ll just buy both regardless of what I start with .

I guess I’m just about ready just need a reasonable place to buy the shot ???

Thanks
MG

Oh what are the shells called I have ( the green ones ) there are 3 Winchester 2-3/4 shells to choose from on the website. I just don’t know specifically what the green shell I have are called or which to click on if using those shell through Hodgdon or a manual for that matter ??

[cdoc42]

If you already bought the wads, fine. But you should check out the Claybuster site for their appropriate "generic." I'm using CB-1118-12to replace WAA-12 for 1-1/8oz in 12 Ga, and CB-1078-20 to replace the WAA wads for 7/8oz 20-GA shotshells.

(claybusterwads.com)

RE: hulls, my Lyman 3rd Edition, Shotshell Handbook does not list any 12GA GREEN hulls from Winchester- just Remington-Peters. If the Winchester website shows the internal construction of those 3 hulls you can cut one of yours length-wise to the brass
base, then cut that section out and compare to those on the site.

However, from the discussions above I get the impression hulls for the shot size you're planning to use are different than those used for common target or hunting hulls.

For shot, I am of no help- I buy shot either at Cabela's or my local smaller gun shop. I haven't seen anything but 7-1/2 and 8 lately.

[Marco Califo]

Your green shells are not intended to be reloaded, and will not appear in manuals. They are manufactured for a special purpose, and are single use. You "may" be able to fit a wad, powder and shot and make it go bang. But if you want to use published data, then I recommend you forget about using those green hulls. Not all hulls are intended to be reloadable. If you want predictable results with published data, then acquire reloadable hulls (the ones that are listed in reloading manuals). They will use specified wads.
Most Claybuster wads duplicate bird shot loads.
Using 00 pellets is a narrow speciality load. You may not be able to use the R12 red and 1 1/4 oz wads with buckshot. See the load data, you may need cardboard wads, whatever the load data specifies.

[Marco Califo]

Oops

[Metal god]

The Data specifies the wads I posted above . When I first looked for them I did find the equivalent clay busters somewhere and had planned to just buy those .

[Marco Califo]

Good, you should be all set. I didn't know they published buckshot loads for those WAA12F114.

[big al hunter]

You need to make sure the green shells are made with the straight hulls or the tapered hulls. Cut one down the length of the case and look at the thickness of the wall and the wad inside the base. If it is a straight hull with a separate base wad, you have polyformed hulls. If the sides are tapered and the base is molded with the sides it is a compression formed case. You can find load data for both. I load buckshot in WAA12F114 wads and WAA red wads. There is data for them in the Lyman #4. I found data that calls for cutting the petals off of the WAA red wad and using it as a gas seal to get more shot in the load. IIRC it was 00 buck loaded in rows of 3 for a total of 15 pellets. I don't remember the charge, but there were a few powders noted. The 00 buck can also be stacked in rows of 2 with the petals intact. The total was 10 pellets. I will look for the data in the morning and let you know where to find it.

If you can't find plated shot, you can powder coat them yourself. Or you can lube them with Lee liquid Alox.

[big al hunter]

Check Sportsman's Warehouse and Mid South Shooters supply for shot.

[Metal god]

They look straight to me but I'm not sure what I'm looking for .

[big al hunter]

Those are straight wall. The tapered hulls like win AA or rem nitro are nearly twice as thick at the base as they are at the mouth. And the different colored base wad in there is a separate piece of plastic. In the tapered hulls the base wad and hull walls are one piece, similar to metallic cartridges. The primer hole in the green hull looks a little small for a standard decapping pin. Have you tried to change the primer yet? This may be the only thing preventing reloading those hulls. If your press can remove the old primer and put a new one in you can use Winchester polyformed case data. If not, the red hull looks good.

I searched my Lyman #4 manual for the load I used for 00 buck and WAA12R wads with the petals cut off. I couldn't find that particular load. Lots of other loads with petals removed for 10, 16 and 20 ga. But not for 12. Must have been in another book. I will try to find the one I used.

[Marco Califo]

Just because you "can" reload those hulls, does not mean using those hulls with unpublished data or cutting up wads is a good way to learn shot shell reloading from scratch. That is why I recommend starting with tapered hulls and mainstream data. Plenty of time to experiment later on, after getting grounded in known quality products and published loads. It is not expensive to do so.

[peterg7]

I bought Hornady swaged buck in 5lb boxes, don’t know if it’s still available.

Used to be able to buy Remington buck in 25lb bags but I doubt that’s available now.


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[big al hunter]

That is why I recommend starting with tapered hulls and mainstream data. Plenty of time to experiment later on, after getting grounded in known quality products and published loads

The data with petals cut off the wads is in a Lyman manual. Is that not mainstream enough for you? I don't recommend loading without published data either, which is why I didn't give data without finding it first. Tapered hulls are nice, but not that much better. In my experience they crimp the same. They might last for more loadings, but that's not my only requirement for a good load.

[Marco Califo]

"I searched my Lyman #4 manual for the load I used for 00 buck and WAA12R wads with the petals cut off. I couldn't find that particular load. Lots of other loads with petals removed for 10, 16 and 20 ga. But not for 12. Must have been in another book."

No that is not mainstream enough for me or someone loading their first shotshells.

[Metal god]

Marco and Big Al , I’ve got a lot from both of your post here and appreciate what you both have said . I will in fact load those green hulls but not at first .

The new hulls and manual came yesterday. All the shells are black which I’m happy about , not that it matters but I didn’t want several different colors of the same shell type . I started reading the manual last night and plan to read most of it before starting . There was however a lot at the beginning that I already knew because it’s basic general reloading info so I just skimmed through that stuff to be sure there was nothing shot gun specific . Which there was when talking about scales , they recommend a larger scale then I use . This however seems do to some shot charges weighing over 1-1/8oz which would put me over my max 500gr beam scale . I do have two other electronic scales though that should weigh more If I ever need it but don’t think I’ll be loading more then 1-1/8oz any time soon so I should be gtg .

[Metal god]

So far all I can find locally is steel 00-Buck . When I look in the Lyman 5th there is only one load in the book on pg309 that has the components I'm using ???? Well the only Winchester cases , none of them say AA though ????

The wad is quite different which based on what we've been talking about is likely because of the lighter weight of steel shot needing more room in the shell . Just guessing here but would think 00buck lead in 2-3/4" shells has 9 pellets and 00 buck steel would have more ? 10 , 11 , or 12 pellets . In the only load data I have that matches my components . The shot weight is 7/8oz . I assume I weigh out the number of pellets that is closest to 7/8oz with out going over and that's my number of pellets I load ??

I'm going to keep looking for lead but if it's all I can find then that's what I'll get .

[peterg7]

What shotgun you plan on using steel on?


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[Metal god]

Mossberg 500 , I have a 18” tactical and a 20” traditional type with plastic stock . It’s never been my plan to use steel but I will have something to load before years end . I have less than 100 double lot buck factory shells and less than 50 slugs . In my opinion this is an unacceptable amount to have on hand in times like this . So I’ll get what I can .

[Marco Califo]

Regarding a scale: not nearly as important in shot shell. Alliant (all years) pamphlet include tables and bushings to use, for shot and powder. It's not precise, but good enough for shotshell. Having reloading background, that bothered me, and I got an adjustable charge bar.
I never weight shot charges. Just the powder.
I suspect that after you work with AA hulls, and you try your green ones, you will probably not like the results, crimping the shells in particular. The AA will give you a beautiful 8 point crimp everytime. You use a different crimp starter for 6 point crimp shells, and I did not like the frequent imperfect crimps (one of the 6 would fold flat). Once I set up my progressive MEC, I stopped messing with with 6 point hulls entirely. When I stopped shooting sporting Clay's (if burned down in a brush fire), I kept the AA's. I loaded steel for waterfowl, back in the day, I buy them now.

[FITASC]

Bushings are notoriously light when it comes to dropping the powder charge they say they do.
You do want to verify your powder drops.

[peterg7]

Originally Posted by Metal god

Mossberg 500 , I have a 18” tactical and a 20” traditional type with plastic stock . It’s never been my plan to use steel but I will have something to load before years end . I have less than 100 double lot buck factory shells and less than 50 slugs . In my opinion this is an unacceptable amount to have on hand in times like this . So I’ll get what I can .

Instead of steel you could cast your own, used to be a guy on ebay that sold buckshot molds.


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[USSR]

I cast my own single-aught buckshot. The beauty of single-aught is the diameter is small enough that you don't have to remove the petals from the wad.

Don

[Metal god]

Why are we removing pettles , do they not make the wads with out or is that a custom type of reloading .

[big al hunter]

Ballistic Products sells gas seal wads that don't have petals. But you need additional wads to fill the space between the gas seal and the shot charge. They can be paper, fiber or cork. Also available at sporting goods store or Ballistic Products. A regular wad has a gas seal and spacer built in. I wouldn't try a gas seal wad for steel. Probably not good for the barrel. Steel shot uses special wads and different data than lead. What wads did you get? There are loads for 00 buck with AA red wads that stack in rows of 2 that don't have the petals removed.