Ripped-off on a S&W 629-1

[Road_Clam]

Never bought firearms off gunstroker, NEVER will. I'm not highly educated on guns, but I have enough fundamental knowledge to spot issues. I always view before I buy. Plenty of reputable LGS's in my area, and yes I pay a bit more, but if there's an issue I have a face and a name to deal with.

[OneFreeTexan]

There is a particular gun that I like, it is a $100 gun from back in the 80’s,, I like it and have many.. I have bought them all off Gunbroker and have been VERY pleased,,,,Yes there are some sellers who think the gun is worth $225 ,,, and they never sell.

[Flight Medic]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Notice the OP has not been back to this thread?
He must have figured out how to tighten the sideplate screws

Bill, I guess its hard to tell from a photo, so here is a copy of the letter from the Armorer of my FFL dealer that received the revolver.

January 6, 2019

Mr. [omitted],

After inspecting the Smith & Wesson 629-1 .44 magnum revolver you purchased from BB Guns / Brothers Firearm Shop that was received at our location on January 2, 2019, (serial number ACR1343) it is my professional opinion that this revolver is unsafe to fire in its current condition due to a bulging/creased side plate.

The side plate is bulging out at the lower rear corner of the frame near the trigger guard so much that it has caused a crease in the plate. This bulge is right where the trigger pin (or hand pin) inserts into the trigger. I have not disassembled the side plate to see why this has occurred, per your instructions, but this is most likely from the revolver being disassembled and then reassembled incorrectly with the trigger/hand pin not inserted correctly or all the way into the trigger so it sits flush. When the side plate was then reinstalled and tightened down with the external screws, the plate pushed against the exposed portion of the pin, causing the side plate to bulge out and crease as the external screws were tightened. There are also circular scratches surrounding these external screws, which indicates that a screwdriver that was too wide for the screws was used, which resulted in the finish scratches.

I would not recommend attempting to shoot this firearm without having a licensed gunsmith or Smith & Wesson remove the side plate and inspect the firearm. My main concern is that this bulge/blemish is obviously due to someone who is not qualified to work on this gun disassembling the firearm and then incorrectly assembling it, which could possibly result in catastrophic damage if there was other incorrect work done on the internals of this revolver.

Please let me know if you would like any other information regarding this firearm.

Sincerely,

[omitted]


Its not loose, its damaged.

[Flight Medic]

Sorry for the hiatus, recovering from the holidays.


I did dispute this with my CC company and they gave me a "provisional credit" for the purchase amount while they investigate the dispute. So, in the mean time, I'm not responsible for any interest accrued or for making the revolving charge payment. However, it will still ultimately be incumbent upon me to prove fraud, and I'm told that can be very tricky when it comes to the condition of used and vintage items. The letter from S&W will be my saving grace, I believe.

Speaking of...the gun was shipped to S&W from my FFL on January 10th. S&W emailed me a pre-paid shipping label that morning (which I forwarded to my FFL) and they have agreed to expedite the examination process to help me out...the S&W CS rep said she would "personally walk it back to Performance Shop". She was AWESOME, and she has renewed my faith in humanity.

~FM

[Flight Medic]

Originally Posted by Wild cat mcclane

I assure you, you are not going to get help from Gunbroker. I ASSURE YOU. I've been there. You will quickly learn that in all the mumbo jumbo, gunbroker just pretends it is a clearing house of items, like craiglist. It in no way is an Ebay that will stand with you against a false description. No way, no how.

Gunbroker is the WORST when it comes to a problem.

You may be correct. I could file a "Fraud" claim, but bummer is, even if I win...it a JOKE;

(from GB website)


Fine Print

• You, the buyer, must file a claim with GunBroker.com between 30 and 60 days from the auction end date.

• You, the buyer, cannot file more than 3 claims per 6 months.

• If you, the buyer, paid with a credit card and or a payment gateway service such as PayPal, GunPal, etc, you must dispute the charge with the credit card company and or the payment gateway.

• You, the buyer, will have to show proof that you were denied from your credit card and or payment gateway.

• GunBroker.com will ONLY cover up to $500 on a claim.

• All claims have a $100 deductible. ...................





• GunBroker.com will deny a claim where there is difference in opinion over the condition of the item.

So, on a $1236 purchase, I'd get $400 back...IF I'd get anything back at all.

Lovely.

[JERRYS.]

you should ensure that the true condition of the firearm (bulging side plate with crease from improper assembly....) is considerably different than it was as advertised (excellent condition with minimal signs of use) by the seller. Then you should ensure that every means legally possible are taken to make the public aware on every media platform you can of the fraudulent practices of that gun shop.

[Bill DeShivs]

I stand corrected.
It would seem your issue is with the seller instead of Gunbroker.

[223 shooter]

Sorry for the hiatus, recovering from the holidays.


I did dispute this with my CC company and they gave me a "provisional credit" for the purchase amount while they investigate the dispute. So, in the mean time, I'm not responsible for any interest accrued or for making the revolving charge payment. However, it will still ultimately be incumbent upon me to prove fraud, and I'm told that can be very tricky when it comes to the condition of used and vintage items. The letter from S&W will be my saving grace, I believe.
Speaking of...the gun was shipped to S&W from my FFL on January 10th. S&W emailed me a pre-paid shipping label that morning (which I forwarded to my FFL) and they have agreed to expedite the examination process to help me out...the S&W CS rep said she would "personally walk it back to Performance Shop". She was AWESOME, and she has renewed my faith in humanity.

~FM

Flight Medic , I hope that everything works out in your favor , having Smith& Wesson state in writing damage exists and the gun is unsafe would be about the best credibility you could have in proving your case. I will definitely make it a point never to deal with your gunbroker seller.

[Safestuffer]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

I assure you, you are not going to get help from Gunbroker. I ASSURE YOU. I've been there. You will quickly learn that in all the mumbo jumbo, gunbroker just pretends it is a clearing house of items, like craiglist. It in no way is an Ebay that will stand with you against a false description. No way, no how.

Gunbroker is the WORST when it comes to a problem.

However, you credit card WILL take care of you. Everything in the world is marked up to cover credit card fees. Part of those fees cover benefits provided by credit cards. Dispute resolution is one of those benefits you pay for every time you shop at the grocery store.

If you have even a mid credit card, they will give you back the disputed funds the second you file a dispute.

This was my experience with GB as well. Don't bother chasing them down a rabbit hole if they don't help you, which they wont. There are lesser known but better auction sites out there. People who get burned by GB and get sour on all online transactions don't realize that though GB is the biggest auction site, it's also the worst in terms of buyer protection and customer assistance with disputes, in my opinion.

I've had this same scenario using another auction site and though they couldn't force a refund, they could and did put a hold on the seller's auction account until the dispute was resolved. They are also much more proactive about policing for scam auctions and responding to and investigating complaints.

I'm sorry to hear about the op's troubles. My recommendation is to wait for GB's answer on the off chance they might help with a refund, assume they wont, and start a CC dispute immediately if that's how you paid.

If you didn't use a CC and the seller won't voluntarily refund, congrats. You have a new 629.

Count yourself lucky, you actually got a gun for your money. I didnt, seller told me I'd have to wait at least a month for him to restock the gun listed as "In stock" before he could send it, and to top it off was removing factory accessories in his auctions from guns and selling them seperately. When I refused to wait a month for an incomplete gun, I had to pursue a refund for months, with no help from GB and a seller who degenerated into a lunatic sendi g me emails mocking me, saying thanks for the free $1100. Finally after getting the BBB and his local LE involved he refunded me with "a $200 restocking fee or no refund at all"...for an item he never had in stock.
Gunbroker ONLY response to all this was to delete the negative feedback I left for the seller.
The seller remains on GB to this day, with great feedback and a terrible BBB review.

Next I'd start looking into either attempting to reseat the sideplate yourself, or getting a new side plate from somewhere like numrich.

[agtman]

Should've taken the seller for a ride.

Simpler and more result-orientated.

[OneFreeTexan]

I saw this same thread over on another gun forum????

[Bill DeShivs]

I do know that there are tons of counterfeit knives for sale on Gunbroker.
I offered to point them out on a regular basis-but they weren't interested.

[KEYBEAR]

If you collect and buy stuff (guns) On line a lot you will get burnt at some point .
After years of good luck I got mine I bought a Ruger with Mag-Na-Port Custom work .
I bought this Ruger off Gun Broker from a very good shop and the Revolver looks very good . Now the problem it was not built well from Mag-Na-Port and Needs a lot of help . The Revolver was built in 1976 i bought it used and unfired last summer .
I am having it fixed but not by Mag-Na-port that told me to pound sand .

[Lohman446]

I do know that there are tons of counterfeit knives for sale on Gunbroker. I offered to point them out on a regular basis-but they weren't interested.

I have some interest and buy from time to time some fairly high end knives and axes. You don't even buy them on Amazon due to the amount of counterfeits out there.

[Flight Medic]

*UPDATE*



Smith & Wesson Performance Center confirmed the revolver is is need of repair and issued me estimate for parts and labor. According to S&W, the side plate needs to be replaced and fitted, and the frame refinished to match new plate. Also the Trigger Pin and Locking Block Coiled Pin need to be replaced. I forwarded this documentation to the seller who replied "One of our Managers will be in touch with S&W right away. We will find out an ETA for repairs. " B&B Guns ("gomoose02") clearly has NO intention of refunding my money.



So, since I did NOT agree to purchase a damaged OR a factory refurbished revolver I am not authorizing repair, and I am going to have to contact the Attorney General of ND and report them for Deceptive Business Practices and Internet Fraud.





PLEASE avoid this Gunbroker seller, and feel free to spread the word about this shyster to friends.

~

[FrankenMauser]

Thanks for the update.

[agtman]

Smith & Wesson Performance Center confirmed the revolver is is need of repair and issued me estimate for parts and labor. According to S&W, the side plate needs to be replaced and fitted, and the frame refinished to match new plate. Also the Trigger Pin and Locking Block Coiled Pin need to be replaced. I forwarded this documentation to the seller who replied "One of our Managers will be in touch with S&W right away. We will find out an ETA for repairs." B&B Guns ("gomoose02") clearly has NO intention of refunding my money.

Why did you attempt to 'authorize' the seller to contact S&W by forwarding him S&W's repair statement & appraisal?

Do you/did you expect the seller to pay S&W for any repair/replacement/refinishing to this revolver the factory determines is necessary?

So, since I did NOT agree to purchase * * * a factory refurbished revolver I am not authorizing repair,

Dude, focus. It's not a 'factory refurbished revolver' until (a) S&W actually receives the gun and (b) a factory tech repairs or 'refurbs' it. That hasn't happened yet.

* * * and I am going to have to contact the Attorney General of ND and report them for Deceptive Business Practices and Internet Fraud.

Yeah, right ...

I'm sure the rather not-busy AG of ND will be gittin' right on that.

[tipoc]

Seems a simple problem made more complex.

tipoc

[reddog81]

If they’re going to pay for the repairs why not just keep the gun? It’s not going to have any effect on the performance and if anything you’ll probably be better off after the factory does their work. It’s not like the work is being done at Bubba’s Kitchen Top Gun Shop. The factory will be able to “refinish” the stainless steel and the gun will look like new.

[arquebus357]

Replacing pins is not something I would even want S&W to do. They are saying that when a new side plate is fitted, the current pins will not line up. Yikes. I would not want that repaired revolver and I'm not very fussy.

The OP is saying he did not buy a factory refurbished gun which is what it will be if he agrees to let S&W fix it. He paid a premium in order to receive a, better than usual, firearm. That's not what he received.

[USNRet93]

Originally Posted by Flight Medic

*UPDATE*



Smith & Wesson Performance Center confirmed the revolver is is need of repair and issued me estimate for parts and labor. According to S&W, the side plate needs to be replaced and fitted, and the frame refinished to match new plate. Also the Trigger Pin and Locking Block Coiled Pin need to be replaced. I forwarded this documentation to the seller who replied "One of our Managers will be in touch with S&W right away. We will find out an ETA for repairs. " B&B Guns ("gomoose02") clearly has NO intention of refunding my money.



So, since I did NOT agree to purchase a damaged OR a factory refurbished revolver I am not authorizing repair, and I am going to have to contact the Attorney General of ND and report them for Deceptive Business Practices and Internet Fraud.





PLEASE avoid this Gunbroker seller, and feel free to spread the word about this shyster to friends.

~

What's the estimate for the repair? Maybe get the seller to pay for it? My condolences..a can of worms you clearly didn't sign up for..

[tipoc]

This was a simple thing that was made a can of worms by the op.

tipoc

[disseminator]

At this point, I would suggest letting S&W make it whole if the seller is willing to pay for it. And maybe even if they aren't.

Good Luck.

[Bill DeShivs]

While I agree that the S&W letter will provide evidence of fraud, and that your credit card company may give you a refund- your issue is with the seller, not GB. Have you demanded a refund directly from the seller?

[t4terrific]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Here's a better one- have you tried tightening the side plate screws??

Oh, brother.

What’s next, a hammer?