Would it be worth it for me too start handloading?

[Blue Duck357]

Embaressed as I am I'll admit it, been shooting for 20 years now but never reloaded, every time I got thinking about it I spent the money on a new gun instead .

Right now I fire about 200 rounds of .45 auto, 150 rounds of .38's and about 40 rounds of 30-06 a month. I would up all that a bit if it was cheaper. My question is if I'm not really interested in finding a load that can knock a fly off a wall at 100 yards or wanting to test the pressure limits of homemade defense load, but just want cheaper ammo, should I get started relaoding or just look for better buys on loaded stuff?

Any help appreciated, Blue Duck

PS finding brass where I shoot the 45 would be really rough, is it worth it too get the setup if your only going to be recovering, 50% or so of the brass?

[LilJoe]

We found out that reloading isn't cheaper if you look at what your spending.. You just shooting ALOT more. As for brass, when we shoot at the range we get 90% of our brass back. And when we shoot out back we just lay a big tarp out over the grass and get all of it back.

[Art Eatman]

It's probably obvious to anybody who's followed my posts, but I've long been a handloader, and prefer to roll my own than to buy the store stuff.

I always suggest considering good-used stuff. For one who doesn't shoot all that much, I recommend an "O" type press instead of a progressive. New carbide resizing die for pistols; good-used (but not scratched inside) dies for rifles. If you begin shooting a lot more pistol, you can then get a Dillon and really crank 'em out.

Take in a few gunshows, looking for older reloading data books. They work. And you occasionally find some guy who's upgrading his reloading gear and has a whole bunch of stuff in a package-deal. You just never know.

I've got stuff that's over 50 years old. Works fine. As far as I'm concerned, the investment cost of my reloading equipment, per round, is somewhere near zero.

For me, it's a mix of pride in doing my own loading. I have more options in any cartridge than what the factories offer. And I save a lot of money per shot.

Keeps me out of beer-joints, too...

, Art

[RiverRider]

Hey Blue Duck.

I say go for it. But if you do, I think you may find yourself more interested (eventually) in loads that will knock off the fly at a hundred. Just a word of caution!

I would follow Art's advice on equipment. You might find a good deal on ebay.com on some good stuff, I've seen it there. Avoid Lee presses, scales, and powder measures (I would suggest nothing less than RCBS) but other Lee accessories are pretty good buys.

If you go this route, you'll be glad you did. It's a whole 'nuther dimension of the shooting sports, and one of the most interesting of all!

-RR-

[drothen]

I started loading to save money. Turns out I enjoy it. . .

[Steve Smith]

I'm gonna sound like a 12 year old here...reloading is the coolest thing on earth. I really enjoy it. It gets me away from all the stresses of my office, from the honey-do's, you name it...just the rythmic "kachunk-whack" of my 550B gets me in a great mood. (For those who are wondering, the "whack" on a 550B is the charge bar coming back home) I'll sit in there with Johnny Horton or Baxter Black goin' and totally remove myself from life for a while.

Oh yeah, I shoot an awful lot more now, because of the savings.

[shooter22]

I'm just like Steve Smith, only I don't get the whack with my Hornady L-N-L.

There is nothing more gratifying than developing a load that shoots clover leaf patterns at 100 yards.

shooter22

[WESHOOT2]

I started handloading to save money compared to 'factory' ammo.
(The Lee tools that require hammering! Took five years for the primer particles to work their way out of my fingertips LOL.)

Now I is one!

I say get started now, shoot more for less.

[biganimal]

i started over 20 years ago cuz I wuz poor. I had a bad shooting habit and my dad made me reload...been doing it ever since now for the fun more than cost but it still cost much less than factory ammo. factory loads can't compare with my reloads for accuracy . I've shot groups at 100yds under 1/2" can't do that with factory stuff!!!!and for all the nay-sayers I use Lee neck dies for 90% of my reloading.

[VIEJO]

Hey RiverRider,
I had my very complete RCBS rig stolen about ten years ago and just a few months back was financially able to start retooling. To make a long story......... I bought a Lee Anniversay Kit and six sets of dies. I agree that the powder measure and scale suffer from major suction, but what gives with the presses? I like the presses so far (I bought a second, small "C" frame press) and the dies seem just fine.

I would have preferred to go with the green or blue stuff if I could have afforded it, but I'm happy to back in reloading at all. Have you or others here had problems with the presses that I should watch for? Thanks,

Viejo

[biganimal]

viejo,
I too have the Lee powder measure and scale and a rcbs scale and a lymon powder throw, also an electronic scale. I find that the simple powder measure and scale by Lee are far more accurate than the rest including the electronic one!!!!these are great as soon as one learns how to use them correctly. my friend has a pharmacy triple beam scale that we have compared my stuff against and found the lee stuff to be accurate to .001 of a grain the rcbs scale has a varience of - or + .02 to .12. this is too wide a range for me when my face is less than 4 inches from the case when fired..

[WESHOOT2]

Be VERY GENTLE when using your LEE presses. If you meet firm resistance BACK OFF, because they break easy (own two, broke both immediately after mounting!)

HIGHLY RECOMMEND a (Lyman) scale weight check set.

[VIEJO]

Animal,
I cussed my Lee powder measure for one reason only. Every throw of the handle results in about .1 to .2 grain of powder being thrown out the left side of the rotor onto my hand or my bench. I can't fault the accuracy in the least and the repeatability is perfect so far. In fact, I don't remember my RCBS powder measure being this accurate in terms of repeats at all.
I e-mailed Lee customer service yesterday and they told me to cycle a couple cylinders full of powdered mica or graphite thru it to make sure it's lubed sufficiently and then take it apart and check the rotor mating surfaces. This is a quote (or nearly) "if there is a big gap between the surfaces of the rotor or rough spots, send it back for replacement". I guess I don't understand how their quality control people can pass a VERY accurate tube and metering micrometer and pass a leaky rotor.
I LOVE that purty green 5-0-5 scale though. On the strength of your advice, I'll give the Lee scale another shot. The computing densities and all that crap seemed like a waste of time however when the RCBS just simply reads easier. I find that the more "viejo" I get, the less I like to trifle. Maybe I've gone beyond old to beginning senility.
Thanks for the response, bro.

Viejo (old guy)

[VIEJO]

Weshoot2,
Are you maybe puttin' a little too much bicep on those press arms? I understand that you're a pro reloader, right?
In that case I have to assume that you weren't trying to size .30-06 cases into .218 Bee.
Are these aluminum presses just inherently weak or am I missing something? I know a guy who recommended the kit to me when I was shopping for a new reloading outfit and he has been doing .45-70, .30-06, 6.5 Swedish and .308s for years without a problem.
I appreciate you cautionary suggestion and arthritis can guarantee I won't be putting undue stress on these presses.
Regards,

Viejo

[Bogie]

If you are breaking presses, there's something wrong with how you're doing things. You do NOT need to force that handle with that much pressure. Case lube is good. FWIW, I've formed brass with one of their O-frame presses, with no problems.

For a beginner reloader, who's looking to do pistol and small rifle rounds, I'd recommend the Lee turret press. Get extra turrets for each calibre.

The pistol powder measures work just fine - get the adjustable charge bar. Same method as the Dillon, and just as accurate.

The "perfect" powder measure is every bit as accurate as measures costing over $300. I own two, along with a modified RCBS Uniflow... The RCBS is used for benchrest, primarily because I've got a 6" drop tube on it, and the micrometer returns to a given load more accurately... I don't recommend the Lee Perfect for pistols/flake powder tho... That's what the pistol measure is for.

My Lee scales show more accuracy potential than my Dillon balance beam or my Pact BBK electronic scale.

I own... 1 Harrell BR press, 1 Redding Boss, 1 Lee O-frame press, 1 Lee C-frame press, 1 Lee hand press (great little gizmo!), 1 Lee turret press, and an RCBS JR-3 that's currently at a friend's place.

[saands]

BlueDuck357: I shoot about 300 rounds of .40, 300 rounds of 9mm, and 50 rounds of .357 a month and have been loading my own for quite a while. FWIW, I was using a Lee Hand Pess exclusively (I live in a condo) until I started loading .308 and .223 and finally ordered one of their simplest bench mounts for the garage. It turns out that the 9mm is a lot easier on the bench mount as well, but I have had nothing but good luck with my setup. I use an RCBS scale and Lee dies. I HIGHLY recommend (and probably won't get contradicted on this one) their Factory Crimp Dies. I went this route, because I didn't have the space and wanted to try it for a minimal investment. I have never had a failure of a handload which is more than I can say for the factory ammo that I have shot ... and I shoot over 75% handloads.

Whatever hardware you buy, do yourself a favor, though:
READ AT LEAST ONE RELOADING MANUAL ... COVER TO COVER ... BEFORE YOU EVER LOAD A ROUND!

OK ... you can skip the pages that are full of load data for calibers that you don't have

Be safe,
Saands

[S&W Man]

I have reloaded for more years than are to remember now. For my handgun ammunition, I reload everything. My 38spl, 357mag, 9mm and 45ACP on a Dillon 650. My 38 S&W and 38 Long Colt on an old RCBS Rock Chucker. I have dies to do my rifle calibers with as well, but with all the surplus ammo in 308, .30-06, 223, and 7.62x39, unless I am loading for competition, it is now less expensive to buy surplus. But Handgun is much less expensive to reload when it is in the quanties that I shoot.

Basic rules: BE SURE TO READ A GOOD MANUAL AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING BEFORE YOU START. Handle evrything with care. Double check your charges till you KNOW they are right. And never take anything for granted, settings can and will change.

And believe it or not, IMHO, reloading is a great stress reliver. I go do it to relax frequently.


The second admendment GUARANTEES the other nine and the Constitution!

[Blue Duck357]

Thanks for all the advice folks. I actually have read my old Speer #10 reloading manual many times over (it's looking a little rough now).

Thinking about the RL 550B, I know there are some less expensive options, and a progressive may not be the simplest way to start out, but I'd really rather not buy the single and end up buying a progressive a year from now too.

Any opinions on the RL 550B for a newbie? or whether I should re-think starting out on a progressive?

Thanks, Blue Duck

[PaulTX]

I reload 9mm and .40 on a Lee Loadmaster and M1 Carbine, .44, and .357 on a Lee Turret Press. I also have a Lee Challenger (O type) press for resizing/decapping. My scale is a Pact BBK. I use the Lee Pro powder measure with an adjustable charge bar and have a Lee Perfect powder measure.

I like Lee equipment and dies. I've never had any problems with my ammo. Dillon is fine, but the cost of equipment would be much greater. I do all the case preparation first and start of the loading process with a primed case. The priming operation is a weak point of the Loadmaster. I could probably getting working okay, but I like having good quality control over the priming step. I use the Lee auto prime II on the Turret press.

When loading on the Loadmaster with a primed case, all I have to concentrate on is the case feeder and the powder operation.

I also enjoy reloading! I like manufacturing - taking the raw materials and making a product. My main problem is it's been raining so much in the North Texas area that I'm reloading more than shooting!

[Michael Priddy]

Blue Duck, it is a slippery slope you are starting down when you take up reloading. Reloading makes strong men weak of mind. It develops in stages. It is usually your friends that get you into it. "Try it, it won't hurt you". It looks like fun when they are reloading. They probably let you "help" them. They tell you how much money you can save. So you figure, what the @#@#$ it can't hurt. You buy one maybe two die sets to go with a couple of your favorite guns. A pound of a particular powder, a box or two of primers and a hundred bullets. That is the first stage. Second stage starts when you have a pound of powder for each bullet weight and design you use in one caliber. Now powder storage space is a problem. You are not buying the regular old run of the mill bullets any more. You have to have the premium stuff, fifty to a box. The amount of time spent shooting now has increased and you are buying primers by the thousand bulk bullets and you have added a few accessories like electric case trimmers, calipers, competition dies, chronographs, range finders, computer ballistic programs and case length gauges. you subscribe to seven or eight gun and reloading magazines. You start getting the fidgets if the latest Midway catalog has not arrived. The third stage of addiction are those tiny little groups at a hundred yards( the holy grail of a one hole five shot group ). At this stage, you are hanging out with other addicts. A side phase develops. If he has one, I have to have one too. Things like 40x spotting scopes, mechanical front rest, case tumblers, plastic ammo boxes, special cleaning kits with a jag and bore brushes for each caliber, more expensive scopes, special boxes to put all your equipment in when you go to the range. It now takes you thirty to forty minutes to pack to go to the range. The next time you buy a car, you are considering "will all my equipment fit in the back" Along this part of the addiction, you start thinking that off the rack guns are not quite good enough to achieve the holy grail and you want a custom made gun. You have read about bean field guns, Warbirds, PPC and Ackley Improved. So you pick up an old mauser eight millimeter and buy a four or five hundred dollar blank of extra fancy walnut, a nice target grade barrel, a four or five hundred dollar scope and in ten or eleven months you have a piece of functional art. The pride you will feel when you show it to your friends and pull it out of its case at the public range is right next to your first born child. Now your friends start to build their fires rifles. You begin to realize you have rifles in the gun safe ( the closet will not hold them all now ) that you don't shoot any more. You find yourself hanging out around gun shows with other addicts. You can't find anything that will give you the buzz a new gun did before you started down this slipper slope. The last and final stage before death is your own rifle range and building a new home planned around a reloading room/ gun room/ trophy room. You look back over the years and can't count of the number of people you have gotten hooked on reloading. At this stage, you are so politically incorrect that you don't have many close friends that are non reloaders. You look at the car in front of you at the stop light to see if it has a NRA decal on the back..... if some one had only told me....Michael. HOW IS THIS OLEG? HE PROOF READS MY POST AND POINTS OUT MY ERRORS

[Edited by Michael Priddy on 03-18-2001 at 11:32 PM]

[Joe Gulish]

I started off with the dillon 450 (now it's a 550b) and I would do just one round at a time till i got comfey with it. Then I added a second round. Now I sit down a do 400 an hour and I'm in no rush to finish. Just take it slow and double check EVERTING. Good luck.

[45Colt]

Here's the math:

Dillon 650 (the only way to fly <g>) 443.95
Case feeder 172.95
Powder Checker 55.95
500 Cases Starline 53.65
1,000 Rainier plated bullets 73.94
1,000 Primers 22.00
1 pound W231 powder (1400 rounds) 22.00
Total 844.44 (42.22/box)
Second loading
1,000 bullets 73.94
1,000 primers 22.00
1 pound W231 powder 22.00
Total 961.00 (24.05/box)
Third Loading
1,000 bullets 73.94
1,000 primers 22.00
1 pound W231 powder 22.00
Total 1078.00 (17.97/box)
Fourth Loading
1,000 bullets 73.94
1,000 primers 22.00
1 pound W231 powder 22.00
Total 1195.00 (14.94/box)

And so on. Can save a little on components by going to gun shows, shooting lead, etc. But, as you can see, by the time you have doubled your shooting of your .45 to 400 rounds per month, in one year you will have paid for everything you will ever need, and can then buy new brass, and still shoot for less than $4.00 per box. If you like to shoot 100 per week, it's the only way to go.
BTW if you can pony up the dollars, don't listen to those who say buy cheap to begin with. Amortize the difference between a 650XL press and a 550 (118.00) and it doesn't make economic sense since you have many more capabilities with the 650 equipped as I described it. Best of luck
Walt

[Blue Duck357]

Wow Walt Thanks!

I really appreciate you breaking it down like that. Thats exactly what I've been looking for but didn't think anybody would go to as much trouble as you did for it. Sure want to thank you for the time you put into your post. That settles it for me I will get started ASAP.

Blue Duck

[Kernel]

Blue Duck, How can you ever shoot for $4.00 per box (of 50 ctgs) when based on your numbers the bullets, powder, and primers alone cost nearly $6.00? -- Kernel

[Blue Duck357]

Kernal, those are 45 Colt's numbers , but notice he mentions you can cut the cost further by buying powder, primers at gunshows and casting your own bullets instead of the plated ones's etc. I assume thats the differnce in cost.

Regards, Blue Duck