22 hornet crimp

[Colorado Redneck]

I had a Savage model 40 that just frustrated me. I had lots of hand loads that were put together for that gun. Well, after a year of fiddling around, I traded the model 40 for a used CZ 22 hornet.

Finally I got a day to go shoot that thing. It has a clip magazine, and the longest cartridge that I can get into the mag is about 1.735 inches. I had some loads that were Hornady 40 gr V-max and were 1.750 over all length. I ran them thru the press and seated them down to 1.735 and tried them. They shot pretty good---far better than the model 40 did with that load. This load averaged 2940 fps and even with a stiff breeze I shot a 10 round group that was 1.4 inches with one outlier caused by my reaction to a windgust. The case mouth is out past the ogive, and I had probelms getting the round into the chamber as the case mouth would hang up on the opening of the chamber.

I made some more of these rounds, and set the die so I have a pretty good crimp. If I could upload a picture it would be clearer what my question is, but here goes anyway. Will this much crimp with a bullet that has a long ogive mess with the accuracy of the load? I am using 12.8 gr of Lil Gun and Rem 6 1/2 primers.

I tried to set up an album following the instructions but could not find the "link for albums and pictures" on the control panel. Help with this would be appreciated. A good picture helps explain a lot for a question like this.

Thanks for any and all comments and thoughts.

[Crankylove]

The case mouth is out past the ogive,

I have that same problem when I load 40 grain V-Max and Ballistic tips in my Hornet. I don't have feeding issues with mine, but it just looks............weird. I don't crimp any of my Hornet loads, neck tension has always been enough for me.

[Scorch]

The case mouth is out past the ogive,

If you use Hornet bullets, you don't have that problem because of the short ogive on Hornet bullets.

[hammie]

For those of us who have loaded v-max bullets in the hornet for magazine fed guns, a picture isn't necessary. We know exactly what you're talking about. Scorch is right, of course, but you lose the ballistic efficiency of the sharp, pointed bullets when you use hornet specific bullets. I had a related problem with a .32-20. The .32 pistol bullets were too long, when crimped on the cannelure. To solve the problem, I trimmed about .030 from the cartridge. I'm wondering if the hornet could be trimmed enought to fix the problem.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

that is a good suggestion ^^^^ provided you load only for that specific gun ( look up the minumum case length & trim to minimum, & see if those feed reliably ??? )

I actually run into the situation you are talking about alot, as I've been playing with the Hornet with a 1 in 9 twist barrel, & I can shoot up to 68 grain bullets with mine )

you could also try taper crimping the case mouth down, but watch your pressures, as you'll likely see a rise in pressure, I'd suggest starting back at the lowest charge & working up if you do that

[briandg]

Off hand, I'd say just test. I think trimming the cases sounds like a good idea. it headspaces on the rim, and since your bullet is already hanging unsupported by the case neck, it is nothing but unnecessary and probably damaging for your accuracy to have that extra brass hanging at the end of the neck. another idea that has merit would be to go ahead and load long, and use a stationary disk sander to trim that 1.5/100" off of your loaded bullets. You could create a jig that would give you an absolutely clean and accurate trim out of just a grooved piece of wood.

You would lose your needle sharp point. You would wind up with a very tiny flat meplat.

This probably isn't the best answer, but since it is the one thing that won't either modify your case or use an excessive crimp, this is what I would probably try first. I don't think that this small bit of modification is going to affect your accuracy at all, I don't think that it could affect your velocity beyond a few fps at very long range. It may even improve your terminal performance by giving greater resistance to penetration, and hence, blowing the bullet open even faster.

Actually, I'd probably look at a different bullet first. But, that wasn't the question.

[Colorado Redneck]

Your comments are really appreciated! And working up from the minimum load is a great piece of advice. Trimming the case back sounds good too. Will try both ideas and get back with the results.

The Barnes 30 gr. Varmint Grenade seem to work pretty good too, and they feed well and the COAL is such that they fit into the magazine ok.

One of the limiting issues around here is, the shooting range is exactly 1 hour from the house. And the wind blows out there so getting there when the darned wind is not whipping around can make things challenging. Shooting in the wind is fine unless testing loads for accuracy and consistency. If the CEO would move, a place like western Nebraska would be really attractive, as land is cheaper and the residents don't have an issue with things that go BANG! But she makes the plans and I love her. So here we are. I ain't whipped or anything....

Thanks again...you guys are great!

[hammie]

Mr. Colorado Red: It sounds like you're on top of things! The Barnes 30 grain may be a good answer. The 40 grain v-max worked fine in my browning low wall, but when I added a ruger 77/22 KVT a few years back, I ran into your same problem. I adopted scorch's solution and went back to using hornet specific bullets. The hornady 35 grain vmax gave accurate and explosive performance without the magazine problems. The lower ballistic coefficient doesn't bother me, because I think of the hornet as a short range cartridge (150 yds or less). I figure that if you need a flatter trajectory and longer range, then that is why god made the .223 rem, the .22-250 rem, the .220 swift, or the .204 ruger.

[mrawesome22]

Exactly. Get some Hornet bullets. It just ain't a 400yrd cartridge.

[Colorado Redneck]

Well, as usual, the logical thinkers have shown the way. I am still gonna try the 40 gr. v-max with a crimp, starting low and working up. (I love to shoot and load bullets, so what the heck!?) But the 45 gr. Hornady hornet bullet at 2750 fps looks pretty good on paper, so whenever they get some in stock at Midway or Cabelas I will order a hundred and see how they work out. And the Barns 30 gr shows promise too.

Sposed to be nice this weekend so maybe a few hours of shooting without a darn hurricane blowing is in the cards.

Thanks again for all of your input!

[briandg]

That barnes bullet appears to be off the scale. I realize that it is highly exaggerated in its promotional materials, but if the thing is basically a poorly sintered capsule full of dust, the terminal performance must be amazing at any velocity on P dogs or smaller.

[farmall]

Anybody who questions a heavy crimp on 22 Hornet ammo needs to look at the Hornady factory stuff! They MASH a massive crimp on that 35gn bullet. Somehow the stuff shoots exceedingly well in my 3 Hornets, including a model 40.

This said, I have always gotten great results with the 40gn Vmax, and no crimp.

Colorado, did your 40 have problems extracting neck sized reloads, but not full length sized ammo? Mine does. Seems like the N/S is just too tight fitting in the chamber, once fired.

Andy

[fishhawk]

i have a cz 527 hornet and load 40 gr sierra .224 hollow point ,and 13 gr lil'gun with no feeding problems (factory clip). i also have a clip i did a mod on to take longer col rounds for the sierra .224 52 gr hpbt,this clip will feed rounds with a col of 1.880.
the cz with it's 1:16 twist seems to like the shorter bullets best,i get the best accuracy with 35 v max,40 gr sierra hp, the 52 gr sierra hpbt is the longest bullet i can get my cz to shoot with any accuracy.
i always crimp my lil'gun loads this powder seems to like a light crimp.i use LEE factory crimp(collet) and the lee collet neck sizing dies.
i size about .125 of the neck ,and small pistol primers are a must.

[Colorado Redneck]

Back to the range yesterday. The Barnes 30 gr shot an average velocity of 3270 fps on 8 rounds, and the group of 8 was 3/4 inch. For me that is pretty outstanding, as my eyesight is failing, and my heartbeat moves the crosshairs. Made me smile great big. There is a box of these Barnes bullets coming in the mail on Friday.

The 40 V-max also shot really well, with the crimp I mentioned above. I made up some with once fired brass and some with new brass, and all with the die crimp from the Hornady bullet seating die. The velocity was slightly less than the first go-round, but averaged a bit over 2850 fps. Had a couple of groups of 4 a bit over 1/2 inch. So either of these will work fine in this little CZ.

The Barnes load is 12.0 gr H110, Remington Brass, Rem 6-1/2 primer.

The V-max load is 12.8 gr Lil Gun, Rem Brass and Rem 6-1/2 primer.

Both of these loads are less than max loads from loading manuals.

One last comment: The 35 gr v-max didn't shoot as well as the Barnes. Slower and larger groups. Lots of people seem to really like that bullet, and it would be my favorite if it shot the best, but I am learning that guns have a mind of their own....ain't no predicting them....like...the fairer sex.

[langenc]

I dont have my primer chart here but try small PISTOL primers. Maybe your 6 1/2 is pistol!!