Recognize this bullet?

Beagle333 · April 10, 2012, 11:03 PM

I was digging in a box today and came across a tiny glass jar with a bullet in it. The jar has "1866" written in small letters on the label in ink. This bullet is obviously a rimfire, and measures 0.406 by my caliper. Somebody gave it to me many years ago and I just unearthed it today while looking for a sizing die that I had misplaced. Wouldn't it be a black powder bullet if it actually was from 1866? I think it would be neat.

It couldn't hold more than 10-15 grains of powder in there though? I have no clue what the headstamp (the letter "M") means. There is not any other writing on the jar.
Here is a pic. (Link to more pics is below)

And here is a link to more pics of the same bullet.
http://s613.photobucket.com/albums/t...ndjump/Bullet/

Hawg · April 11, 2012, 12:04 AM

Remington .41 Short made under a limited contract by Phil Medicus post WWII. The M Headstamp was the last .41 Short manufactured. It is kinda scarce.

Beagle333 · April 11, 2012, 12:26 AM

Well, that takes a little of the romance out of it. . . but it's a pretty neat bullet. 'Thought I might have had something here.

Tatum · April 11, 2012, 12:59 AM

I checked my copy of Charles R. Suydam's book, "The American Cartridge: An illustrated study of the rim fire cartridge in the United States". On page 90 appear photos of 4 cartridges nearly identical to yours identified as a ".41 Derringer" round (aka ".41 Short Rimfire"). It was identied as having a: .405-.407" bullet dia, a .460-.468" rim dia, a case length of .453-.493", a .870-.924" cartridge overall length, case mouth dia of .405-.406", head dia of .405-.406". Range of measurements reflect products from different manufacturers and different shaped bullets giving different overall length. If these measurements are close...then .41 Derringer/.41 Short Rimfire should be correct. Original loadings ranged from 10 to 13 grains of blackpowder and typically a bullet of 130 grains. Head stamp is not referenced in Suydam's book.
A different reference: "The Cartridge Guide" by Ian V. Hogg, identifies several "M" head stamps, the most likely being one by a gunsmith: P.J. Medicus of NY, NY. Medicus only used this headstamp on .41 Short Rimfire/.41 Derringer. 2 other European manufacturers used "M" as well. Medicus contracted with Remington-UMC to make cases. Should be of reasonable collector value. Hope this helps.

Hawg · April 11, 2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

I checked my copy of Charles R. Suydam's book,

You doubted me?

They retail for about ten bucks each.

Tatum · April 12, 2012, 11:15 PM

I was working on my reply and didn't see the reply from Hawg Haggen until I had posted mine. Oh well, corroberation is good.

April 10, 2012, 11:03 PM	#1
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Recognize this bullet? I was digging in a box today and came across a tiny glass jar with a bullet in it. The jar has "1866" written in small letters on the label in ink. This bullet is obviously a rimfire, and measures 0.406 by my caliper. Somebody gave it to me many years ago and I just unearthed it today while looking for a sizing die that I had misplaced. Wouldn't it be a black powder bullet if it actually was from 1866? I think it would be neat. It couldn't hold more than 10-15 grains of powder in there though? I have no clue what the headstamp (the letter "M") means. There is not any other writing on the jar. Here is a pic. (Link to more pics is below) And here is a link to more pics of the same bullet. http://s613.photobucket.com/albums/t...ndjump/Bullet/

April 11, 2012, 12:59 AM	#4
Tatum Junior Member Join Date: April 3, 2012 Location: N.E. Oregon Posts: 2	Bullet? I checked my copy of Charles R. Suydam's book, "The American Cartridge: An illustrated study of the rim fire cartridge in the United States". On page 90 appear photos of 4 cartridges nearly identical to yours identified as a ".41 Derringer" round (aka ".41 Short Rimfire"). It was identied as having a: .405-.407" bullet dia, a .460-.468" rim dia, a case length of .453-.493", a .870-.924" cartridge overall length, case mouth dia of .405-.406", head dia of .405-.406". Range of measurements reflect products from different manufacturers and different shaped bullets giving different overall length. If these measurements are close...then .41 Derringer/.41 Short Rimfire should be correct. Original loadings ranged from 10 to 13 grains of blackpowder and typically a bullet of 130 grains. Head stamp is not referenced in Suydam's book. A different reference: "The Cartridge Guide" by Ian V. Hogg, identifies several "M" head stamps, the most likely being one by a gunsmith: P.J. Medicus of NY, NY. Medicus only used this headstamp on .41 Short Rimfire/.41 Derringer. 2 other European manufacturers used "M" as well. Medicus contracted with Remington-UMC to make cases. Should be of reasonable collector value. Hope this helps.

April 12, 2012, 11:15 PM	#6
Tatum Junior Member Join Date: April 3, 2012 Location: N.E. Oregon Posts: 2	Recognize this bullet? I was working on my reply and didn't see the reply from Hawg Haggen until I had posted mine. Oh well, corroberation is good.

April 11, 2012, 12:04 AM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Remington .41 Short made under a limited contract by Phil Medicus post WWII. The M Headstamp was the last .41 Short manufactured. It is kinda scarce.

April 11, 2012, 12:26 AM	#3
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Well, that takes a little of the romance out of it. . . but it's a pretty neat bullet. 'Thought I might have had something here.