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Old January 30, 2011, 08:21 PM   #76
Andrewsmith1
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I didn't read every single post in this thread, am not a lawyer, and won't even pretend to know the laws of every state in the US.

What I will say is that with firearms ownership comes enormous responsibility. We must know the laws of ownership in our individual states, know when and where we can carry, and know what situations we are allowed to use our firearms. We must also be aware that even in a legal shooting you are not protected from lawsuits and other potential legal problems. Always be aware of your situations, practice with your firearms, know what is in the background should you need to use your firearm, but try to flee the scene if possible.

We have a major winter storm moving into the are this week and may be running on generator power. Should someone try to take the generator from the back yard, I will not be opening fire on them to save it. My gun cost more than that generator and by the time the police take that from me, the "victims" get lawyered up and start the law suits, I would rather buy a new generator and avoid the hassle.
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Old January 30, 2011, 08:32 PM   #77
Glenn Bartley
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And for the most part if you are within your rights to draw you are within your rights to shoot.


Please inform us as to the legal guidelines you have used to arrive at the above is conclusion, I have never heard it expressed before in my lifetime.

Drawing and shooting are two very different things, if you draw and a bad guy drops his weapon and stops being a threat and you then shoot him, you will be going to jail if there are honest witnesses. Drawing and shooting are not equivalent, nor is the justification to actually use deadly force necessarily commensurate with the justification to draw. Drawing is not using deadly force, shooting someone most definitely is using it.

All the best,
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Old January 30, 2011, 10:05 PM   #78
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ever wonder about those "real" situations(it happens in movies too) where someone draws and turns and almost kills their friend, wife, innocent person, etc? How did they not shoot because it was definately a close call in every case? It can happen late in the night with spouses as one example.

I think most know Wild Bill was unable to stop himself from turning, drawing(unless was already drawn), and killing his deputy with one fatal shot. It can go both ways too, but Wild Bill probably already had his firearm drawn in that famous incident.

Pulling the trigger is seperate from drawing a weapon even if there isn't much time in between.
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Old January 31, 2011, 09:02 AM   #79
Glenn Bartley
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was unable to stop himself from turning, drawing(unless was already drawn), and killing his deputy
Don't you mean he turned, drew his weapon and fired without properly assessing the situation and identifying his target first and not that he could not stop himself. Somene saying I could not stop myself, in a situation like that, is basically saying he did not assess properly and did not identify that at which he was about to shoot, or in other words had assumed that the guy behind them was an armed adversary.

All the best,
GB
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Old January 31, 2011, 10:47 AM   #80
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Please inform us as to the legal guidelines you have used to arrive at the above is conclusion, I have never heard it expressed before in my lifetime.
You can only threaten deadly force if faced with a threat that allows its use (death if grave bodily harm).

If you are faced with the imminent threat of death or grave bodily harm you are also justified in using lethal force.

A lot of folks have watched to many movies and TV shows.
These incidents tend to happen very quickly.

If you point a gun at someone and say "Give me your money" you have met all the requirements that allow deadly force to be used against you.

You are not required to draw and think about it, or give a warning.
You can draw and shoot.

If you want to play Mexican standoff and hope the other guy gives up, go for it.

If the situation exists that you can threaten deadly force it exists to allow its use.

We are not the police.
We are not there to detain the bad guy.

Our purpose is to defend ourselves.

Threaten my life and I may very well respond in ways you may not like.
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Old January 31, 2011, 02:39 PM   #81
youngunz4life
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Glenn

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Don't you mean he turned, drew his weapon and fired without properly assessing the situation and identifying his target first and not that he could not stop himself.
That is a fair assessment, Glenn. From my recollection of the history behind it, Wild Bill's pistol might have already been drawn as he turned around. He wanted to be quicker than the other guy when he heard the feet running up on him, and that resulted in the tragedy of his friend and deputy. That isn't an excuse, and my name isn't famous like Bill's so good luck to me if the same accident happened nowadays.
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Old January 31, 2011, 02:57 PM   #82
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Knowing when it is lawful to use lethal force is only one part of the equation. The more complicated question that all who have chosen to carry must answer to themselves, is "Will my conscience allow me to use deadly force in defense of my own life or that of someone else?"

Those who carry without answering that question to themselves may wind up doing more harm than good.
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Old February 1, 2011, 09:15 AM   #83
Glenn Bartley
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Brickeyee,

Quote:
You can only threaten deadly force if faced with a threat that allows its use (death if grave bodily harm).

If you are faced with the imminent threat of death or grave bodily harm you are also justified in using lethal force.
I wasn't asking about the legal guidelines as to when someone can employ deadly force, I am well aware of them in any situation I would encounter. What I was asking was:

Quote:
Please inform us as to the legal guidelines you have used to arrive at the above is conclusion, I have never heard it expressed before in my lifetime.
The above conclusion that I was questioning was this:

Quote:
And for the most part if you are within your rights to draw you are within your rights to shoot.
Your answer addressed, in general, when deadly force is jusifiable. I was asking what are the legal guidelines that specifically say if you are within your right to draw then you are within your right to shoot. There is a big difference between when you have justification to shoot someone and when you have justification to draw as far as I see it. I basically was asking if there is a law that actually says if you had the justification to draw you also had the justification to shoot. That would be very interesting reading.

All the best,
Glenn B
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Old February 1, 2011, 09:17 AM   #84
Glenn Bartley
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"Will my conscience allow me to use deadly force in defense of my own life or that of someone else?"
My conscience demands it!

All the best,
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Old February 1, 2011, 11:25 AM   #85
brickeyee
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Quote:
I was asking what are the legal guidelines that specifically say if you are within your right to draw then you are within your right to shoot. There is a big difference between when you have justification to shoot someone and when you have justification to draw as far as I see it. I basically was asking if there is a law that actually says if you had the justification to draw you also had the justification to shoot. That would be very interesting reading.
Virginia has NO statute law governing the use of lethal force.

NONE.
It is ALL case (common) law.

The requirements to threaten lethal force (fear of death or grave injury) are the same as the justification to use the force.

If you are NOT in fear of death or grave bodily harm you are not even allowed to threaten lethal force.

If you are in fear of death or grave bodily harm you have met the conditions to both draw and use that force.

They are inextricably linked.
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Old February 1, 2011, 04:05 PM   #86
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the only hard and fast guarenteed time to pull ur gun is when there are bullets flying ur direction. most will say that point is too late, and it is.

any other times are open to interprtation.
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Old February 20, 2011, 09:38 PM   #87
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@Lee n. Field- I live in Georgia
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