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Old December 26, 2014, 09:34 PM   #1
jepp2
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Have you ever worn out a rifle sizing die?

Just curious if you have ever worn out a standard F/L rifle sizing die. And if you did, how many rounds had you sized with it, and how did you know it was worn out?

I am approaching 30K rounds through my Redding 223 die and all still seems well. I always clean my brass well prior to sizing and use good sizing lube.
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Old December 26, 2014, 09:58 PM   #2
Marco Califo
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Quote:
I always clean my brass well prior to sizing
No. And the quote is why. Clean brass and good lube, they last forever. Rust, and stuck cases, ares bigger issues than wear IMO. Brass is softer than steel. Just keep the dirt out.
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Old December 26, 2014, 11:06 PM   #3
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I've heard of such a thing. But have never seen it.

Make no mistake, if you run enough water through a die, it will eventually wear out. Not sure how many lifetimes that would be though.
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Old December 27, 2014, 10:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
I've heard of such a thing. But have never seen it.

Make no mistake, if you run enough water through a die, it will eventually wear out. Not sure how many lifetimes that would be though.
Please explain.
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Old December 27, 2014, 10:30 AM   #5
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Sizing dies do wear out. That's why ammo company hires good tool and die machinists to make new ones after the ones used to make a given cartridge case wears out. Same for jacketed bullet making dies.

Ask an ammo company how many thousands of cases can be made with the same set of case forming dies. Reloading dies will probably have about the same life span; ask RCBS or Redding. They're no different than the final case forming dies used by case makers.
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Old December 27, 2014, 02:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Ask an ammo company how many thousands of cases can be made with the same set of case forming dies. Reloading dies will probably have about the same life span; ask RCBS or Redding. They're no different than the final case forming dies used by case makers.
I suspect that the dies for commercial ammo production are coated with titanium nitride or some other ceramic.
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Old December 27, 2014, 02:40 PM   #7
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"...Please explain..." Water is the universal solvent. Ask Rocky the Mountain.
Brass is far softer than the softest steel. Kept clean your dies will never wear out.
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Old December 27, 2014, 04:10 PM   #8
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I've never personally worn out a die, but I have broken one. It was a carbide sizing die I managed to crack the carbide ring on. I don't know how I managed that. It was awhile ago (early 80's. give or take).


Quote:
Originally Posted by dahermit
I suspect that the dies for commercial ammo production are coated with titanium nitride or some other ceramic.
I don't know whether they feel a need to do that or not. The resizing dies you buy in from the usual suspects are made of fairly mild, easy machining steel that is machined and then subjected to gas nitriding to give it a hard, wear resistant surface. The mild steel is less expensive than tool steel. It is less tough and easier to machine. The gas nitriding doesn't tend to warp the shape the way heat treating and quenching of carbon tool steel often does.

The commercial cartridge case makers use dies made from a proper tool steel and maybe some solid carbide for some operations. I think a lot of cartridge cases are extruded by stamping a brass slug to force it to flow up around the die ram to form the cups. Unlike the older process that starts with brass discs cut from a sheet, the slugs are cut from wire or rod so there is much less scrap involved.

Slug extrusion is the way seamless aluminum beer and soft drink cans are made, all in one step. A die maker who'd worked on the dies for the cans told me they used high impact S-7 air hardening tool steel for that, so I imagine the cartridge case manufacturers do for that kind of operation, too. It retails for about five times what oil hardening tool steel does. I don't think its surface wear characteristics are anything special, though. so perhaps nitriding is used, too.
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Old December 27, 2014, 05:26 PM   #9
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if you run enough water through a die, it will eventually wear out. <-- Please explain.
Water is abrasive. It carved the Grand Canyon. It makes jagged rocks round and smooth. It would eventually do the same to a loading die.

Does this have any practical meaning in this thread? Mmm, not really. Except to make the point that anything that rubs against anything else will eventually wear out. So yes, it is without doubt, possible to wear out a die.
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Old December 27, 2014, 08:20 PM   #10
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Nickel plated brass.
Nickel is very abrasive to a dies interior and carbide coating when the nickel plating itself is flaking or deteriorating >so I've been told by a couple of {indeed} experienced reloaders. Just thought I would pass on the Tip.

BTW : I've never worn out a sizing or seater die. But I sure wreaked a couple of my nice Bonanza's over the years.
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Old December 30, 2014, 05:29 PM   #11
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I've been told that the lifespan of a normal reloading die is anywhere from 100,000 to 250,000 rounds.

From what I've read, Radway Green, the British ammunition plant, dedicates the first lot of production after a die change to sniper ammunition for 7.62x51 ammunition. Why the fresh dies produce more accurate ammo from the same components is a mystery to me, but it works for the Brits.

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Old December 30, 2014, 07:35 PM   #12
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I chambered a Mauser rifle in 45acp with a .469" diameter chamber, becuse the brass sprung back to .469" when it came out of a .467" Lee carbide die.

That did not size down far enough, so I started grinded off the bottom of the die with a diamond wheel. Then the carbide would eventually crack, and scratches the brass, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Wore out lots of dies.
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Old December 30, 2014, 07:47 PM   #13
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Clark wrote:

Quote:
Wore out lots of dies.
I asked:

Quote:
And if you did, how many rounds had you sized with it, and how did you know it was worn out?
Not asking about broke, interested in worn out.
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Old December 30, 2014, 08:10 PM   #14
Bruce_in_Oz
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Worn dies

I have "worn out" ONE RCBS .308Win FLS die in forty years of reloading.

By "worn out"' I mean that the necks of the cases started coming out with a "step" in them. Obviously, the sorted and washed, inspected and lubed cases were STILL carrying enough "crud" to slowly wear away the hardened steel in the neck portion of the die.

The cases would still chamber in my "field" rifles but were starting to run a bit "tight" in the target rifles.

Folks reloading "commercially" and who churn through several thousand cases per day may find their mileage will vary.........

The abrasive crud that falls out of primer pockets when de-priming eats reloading presses of ALL shapes and sizes.

If in doubt, inspect, sort (Berdan-primed cases are murder on decapping pins) and WASH your cases before running through ANY press; your expensive gear will last longer.
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Old December 31, 2014, 07:56 AM   #15
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Why the fresh dies produce more accurate ammo from the same components is a mystery to me, but it works for the Brits.
In a factory setting, the new dies "should" be closest to actual specified dimensions, and "should" produce more consistant results than older, worn dies.

That doesn't mean it would be more accurate in a specific rifle.
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