Federal Gun Rights Act?

[K_Mac]

I just read the linked article below, posted on nationalreview.com. Since I am not a legal scholar, as has Frank Ettin has informed me more than once, I would like some input from those of you who are: Is a Federal Gun Rights Act the solution to pervasive infringement of the Second Amendment?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...ct-to-enforce/

[JACKlangrishe]

Great link.. I'd like to know more about this as well!

I wish we could just get these awful misconceptions cleared up with non-gun people and get our nationwide rights clearly updated and locked in.. So many feel the battle will never really end, we just buy some time with each ban rejection.

It just frustrates me so much when bad info like this exists in 2018 when accurate information has never been easier to access -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckcH-3wilYU&t=1m48s

^ and that guy's a former Lt. Gen. It gets tough to blame people with zero firearms experience for believing someone with such credentials. Here he is being taken to task on twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/sta...07870470909954

I wish the SCOTUS would just weigh in instead of letting it percolate like Ted Cruz (repped 31 states in Heller case) describes here at 17:45 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRpEXJG0g2c&t=14m44s) and update the verbiage to protect our rights to semi-autos, round counts, and whatever other developments in the future that keep us on a somewhat level ground with the gov't, which was the original intention of the 2A.

As irritating as Joe is in that last video, it's so important for us to watch these so we can identify and refute the other side's factual errors. AR style rifles were withheld from Vietnam because they're too lethal?! (15:04 in that video) What country on Earth nerfs their armed forces? To what? Not win?

Looking forward to input on the link you posted from the posters here... they know a lot more about this kind of stuff than I ever will.
 
 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Well, the example he pointed to was an amendment to the Constitution; but still couldn’t be successfully enforced for about 100 years after it was passed - and even then the National Guard had to be called out and the FBI sent in. So, my short take is passing a law isn’t going to be helpful unless that law creates a foothold to change the underlying culture of dependency.

Given that pretty much every level of government seeks to foster a culture of dependency, I’m skeptical that turning to government will be helpful.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by K_Mac

...I would like some input from those of you who are: Is a Federal Gun Rights Act the solution to pervasive infringement of the Second Amendment? ....

Well first it will depend on exactly what such a law might say. The article described the concept in only general terms.

But beyond is the question of how to get such legislation enacted and enforced. That such legislation is politically viable can not be a foregone conclusion.

Federal civil right activity of the late '50s through the early '60s had broad and deep public and political support. The goals of the Civil Rights Movement were promoted regularly in sermons in churches and synagogues all across the nation. The Civil Rights Movement had charismatic leaders like Martin Luther King who could inspire the country. The pro-civil rights of the federal government was promoted by the mainstream media, in demonstrations on college campuses, and in sermons in houses of worship across the nation, helping generate great public sympathy for the cause. That sympathy helped lead to the election of pro-civil rights legislators and executives. And that led to the enactment and enforcement of pro-civil rights laws.

On the other hand, where have there been any great outpourings of sympathy for the plight of gun owners, especially from non-gun owners -- as whites showed sympathy for the plight of non-whites during the days of the Civil Rights Movement? Where are the editorials in the New York Times and Washington Post lauding the courage of gun owners in their resistance to the oppression of anti-gun prejudice? Who has heard a pro-gun rights sermon in his church? Where are the pro-gun rights rallies on college campuses? Where are non-gun owners joining with gun owners in pro-gun rights demonstrations, just as whites joined with non-whites in marches and demonstrations during the Civil Rights Movement? Where are our charismatic leaders inspiring the nation?

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by k mac

Is a Federal Gun Rights Act the solution to pervasive infringement of the Second Amendment?

No.

McCullagh isn't wrong in noting that Congress can play an important role in changing the legal culture, but passage of an act itself isn't effective if the wider culture and the class of people from whom judges are drawn view gun related rights with suspicion. A culture that reads Heller and the 2d Am., yet concludes that banning arms in common use is fine, isn't a culture that will be dissuaded by a congressional vote.

I would welcome SHARE or SHUSH or whatever liberalization measures Congress can pass, but those acts are the result of our political culture, not it's cause. The paradox is that in a country in which Congress would pass an act with powerful ownership and use protections, infringement of the protected right would be a less common problem.

[K_Mac]

Thanks guys. Your answers support what I expected. As divided as we are, mandating compliance and greater scrutiny for states that insist on violating the 2A is a fight that will not be easily won. Adding another layer of laws that can't or won't be enforced fixes nothing and I too am sceptical that the increased involvement of government is a good idea.

Frank your discussion of the large popular support of the civil rights movement versus a growing lack of support for gun rights makes zukiphile's point that political power in our system ultimately comes from the people. That is not a very happy thought in today's culture.

[Metal god]

Federal Gun Rights Act?

haha , thought we already had that . I remember reading it somewhere , The title of the article was something like , oh man what was that again , The bill of rights maybe ???

[Aguila Blanca]

"There was criticism that a gun much like the AR-15 wasn't used in Vietnam ..."

WHAAAAAATTTTTT?

I was in Vietnam in 1968. I was issued an M16, which is a gun "much like the AR-15." How could anyone claim that it wasn't used in Vietnam?

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by K_Mac

...Frank your discussion of the large popular support of the civil rights movement versus a growing lack of support for gun rights makes zukiphile's point that political power in our system ultimately comes from the people. That is not a very happy thought in today's culture.

I agree with zukiphile on this, and no, it's not a happy thought. But we need to understand this reality if we hope to make any headway. Ignoring it won't help us.

The challenge to the effective promotion of the RKBA is the spectrum of emotions, beliefs, hopes, fears, values, wants and needs of too many of our neighbors, co-workers, people in our communities, folks we see at the mall, etc. In general, and for diverse reasons, and based on assortments of different values and life priorities, and fueled by varying beliefs, they don't like guns; they don't understand or accept the proposition that owning guns can be reasonable and relevant for honest, normal people in a 21st Century urban society; they don't understand why normal, honest folks in a 21st Century urban society want guns; they are afraid of people with guns or who would want to have a gun; and they don't accept the various premises upon which we have concluded that having guns is a good and useful thing.

And our neighbors, co-workers, people in our communities, folks we see at the mall, etc., support a well organized, financed, and politically and economically connected movement that opposes the RKBA.

It's about a conflict of cultures. Gun owners are increasingly being marginalized and stereotyped as misfits, outsiders, malcontents, paranoids, and loners. We're not seen as a part of and participant in the broader community. What can each of us do to try to turn that around? What is each of us doing to help turn that around?

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by K Mac

That is not a very happy thought in today's culture.

That's fair, but it shouldn't be cause for resignation to defeat. Straight line projections of intellectual and political trends are unreliable because those trends don't develop in a linear manner. Relatively liberal concealed carry laws weren't something arising from a linear projection from the 1970s; people argued and fought for it with frequent defeats along the way. Not so very long ago, charter schools and school vouchers were politically taboo, but they now exist in many places because things change.

The challenge is to see them change for the better.

[Jim Watson]

As Frank says, we are losing the culture war, even as we make narrow gains like CCW permits and even some legal carry and open carry.

There is also the example of the 1986 Gun Owners Protection Act which included the Hughes Amendment that banned private purchase of new automatic weapons. So be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

[SIGSHR]

The key to good legislation is to pay careful attention to the wording.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Just cheer up you folks in gun heavenly states like TX. I read that 46% of the population of San Francisco want to leave. Among their preferred choices, Seattle and Austin.

Of course, they are moving for more gun rights (think about it) or perhaps expensive living?

The idea that our major organizational spokespeople are ineffective. Now, how can anyone suggest that?

[44 AMP]

I don't know how they fare in Texas, but a significant portion of the ones who come to Seattle work hard to make their new home into the "paradise" that drove them out...

They have largely succeeded.

[Jim Watson]

Yes, this seems to be the situation in many non-California destinations.
Like the tomcat, they want all the fun and none of the responsibilities.

[44 AMP]

If we just pass another law, without any teeth in the enforcement end, it will just be ignored like the current laws are, by those who believe they are right and the law is wrong.

Since it is a long held tradition (and maybe written in law somewhere) that one does not, should not, and can not hold legislators personally liable for the consequences of the laws they create and pass, What are you going to do??

The are only two recourses that I know of, which are allowed by our system. The ballot box, and the jury box. Both are pretty much roll the dice and hope for a good result these days.

How often do we see a court, any court, sanction or punish the administrators personally, if a government organization fails to follow the law??

Most can easily hide behind simple incompetence, as a defense against the charge of malicious intent. Or, perhaps they will throw one or two guys "under the bus", and the issue goes away. The guys (or gals) near, and at the top, without whose tacit agreement, if not outright encouragement, flouting the law, seldom if ever get punished in any way other than sometimes not getting re-elected.

[Hal]

I was in Vietnam in 1968. I was issued an M16, which is a gun "much like the AR-15." How could anyone claim that it wasn't used in Vietnam?

Here's the article the video refers to:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-story/545153/

The author claims the AR15 is more lethal than the M16.

Sorry for any lack of details other than that at this point.....it's 4:46 am & I have to be at the swimming pool by 5:00am for my daily swim.

I'll go through the article later today - if I get the chance.