Seventh Circuit says ArmsList not liable for listing a gun used in homicide

KyJim · August 14, 2014, 02:57 PM

The Seventh Circuit has held ArmsList had no civil liability to a murder victim who was killed by a gun unlawfully obtained after viewing an ad on ArmsList. The buyer was a Canadian who saw an ad on ArmsList listing a gun for sale in Washington state. After he purchased the gun, the buyer stalked and killed the female victim in Illinois. The Seventh Circuit held that under Illinois law, one does not have a duty to protect another from a criminal activity absent a special relationship between the parties. Here, ArmsList had no relationship at all with the buyer-shooter.

This was a lawsuit brought by the Brady Campaign so chalk this up as a win for all of us. If they had won, it could have spelled the end of GunBroker and other firearms listing sites.

There's an article with the main portions excerpted at The Volokh Conspiracy. The full opinion is at http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bi...:N:1398359:S:0.

**Tom Servo** · August 14, 2014, 09:15 PM

I didn't know the Bradys were still trying to keep this one in play. Last year, the District Court dismissed their case [pdf].

And what of Brandon Ladera, the guy who sold the gun despite knowing the transfer was illegal? He got 14 months. That is what the gun-control folks should be griping about.

gyvel · August 14, 2014, 09:21 PM

How is it that the Canadian was able to purchase a gun in the U.S.?

Oops. Never mind. I see that the seller knew it was illegal, in which case one wonders why didn't he get the full 10 years.

2ndsojourn · August 15, 2014, 07:45 AM

Tom, not to pick nits but, he only got 1 year in prison and 3 years probation.
"A Kent, Washington man was sentenced today in U.S. District Court in Seattle to one year in prison and three years of supervised release"

Too bad the Philly girl who got caught in NJ with a gun didn't get the same prosecutor.

JimDandy · August 15, 2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:

How is it that the Canadian was able to purchase a gun in the U.S.?

Quote:

Oops. Never mind. I see that the seller knew it was illegal,

Canadians can buy arms in the US. Just about anyone can buy arms in the US. Citizenship isn't required. One of the ranges I go to is located near a neighborhood favored by (Hindu-type not Native American) Indians over here on H1B visas for technical jobs. It's often flooded with those folks coming down to rent a firearm. See the blurb at the bottom of this 4473 form for question 12.

NJgunowner · August 15, 2014, 11:48 AM

That just means you do live in the U.S. in some legal form. This guy lived in Canada.

MTT TL · August 16, 2014, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Oops. Never mind. I see that the seller knew it was illegal, in which case one wonders why didn't he get the full 10 years.

The prisons are overflowing right now. You can pretty much do whatever you want and not go to prison these days so long as you keep your name out of the media, don't get violent and don't tick off the judge. And don't mess with the feds.

raimius · August 17, 2014, 07:02 PM

MTT TL, add "didn't commit one of the local DA's pet peeve crimes/re-election issue crimes."

August 14, 2014, 02:57 PM	#1
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	Seventh Circuit says ArmsList not liable for listing a gun used in homicide The Seventh Circuit has held ArmsList had no civil liability to a murder victim who was killed by a gun unlawfully obtained after viewing an ad on ArmsList. The buyer was a Canadian who saw an ad on ArmsList listing a gun for sale in Washington state. After he purchased the gun, the buyer stalked and killed the female victim in Illinois. The Seventh Circuit held that under Illinois law, one does not have a duty to protect another from a criminal activity absent a special relationship between the parties. Here, ArmsList had no relationship at all with the buyer-shooter. This was a lawsuit brought by the Brady Campaign so chalk this up as a win for all of us. If they had won, it could have spelled the end of GunBroker and other firearms listing sites. There's an article with the main portions excerpted at The Volokh Conspiracy. The full opinion is at http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bi...:N:1398359:S:0.

August 14, 2014, 09:15 PM	#2
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	I didn't know the Bradys were still trying to keep this one in play. Last year, the District Court dismissed their case [pdf]. And what of Brandon Ladera, the guy who sold the gun despite knowing the transfer was illegal? He got 14 months. That is what the gun-control folks should be griping about. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

August 14, 2014, 09:21 PM	#3
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	How is it that the Canadian was able to purchase a gun in the U.S.? Oops. Never mind. I see that the seller knew it was illegal, in which case one wonders why didn't he get the full 10 years. __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE

August 15, 2014, 11:48 AM	#6
NJgunowner Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 1,254	That just means you do live in the U.S. in some legal form. This guy lived in Canada. Last edited by NJgunowner; August 15, 2014 at 12:44 PM.

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August 15, 2014, 07:45 AM	#4
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	Tom, not to pick nits but, he only got 1 year in prison and 3 years probation. "A Kent, Washington man was sentenced today in U.S. District Court in Seattle to one year in prison and three years of supervised release" Too bad the Philly girl who got caught in NJ with a gun didn't get the same prosecutor.

August 17, 2014, 07:02 PM	#8
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	MTT TL, add "didn't commit one of the local DA's pet peeve crimes/re-election issue crimes."