|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
June 9, 2011, 08:24 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2005
Location: USA The Great State of California
Posts: 2,090
|
Don't use a car door for cover
A simple word to the wise ... a short video clip which also compares 9mm to 50 caliber effects.
http://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/sho...c-effects-9mm-
__________________
Hook686 When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides. Last edited by Hook686; June 9, 2011 at 09:03 AM. |
June 9, 2011, 08:39 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 4, 1999
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,889
|
i did not watch the vid, but I would rather use a car door than nothing.
Jerry
__________________
Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. |
June 9, 2011, 09:02 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 2,016
|
A car door is more concealment than cover...but it can offer some cover in certain circumstances. Like the obove poster said, its better than nothing.
__________________
NRA Life Member USN Retired |
June 9, 2011, 09:52 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2009
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 1,902
|
Long story but without the gory details, had a deranged guy unload a shotgun loaded with lead slugs at me. At the time, I was in an old Ford sedan when they built them strong. The window was down which probably made a difference. Three slugs hit the door but did not penetrate. As I hit the gas pedal and peeled away, three rounds hit the trunk and did penetrate.
The distance between the shooter and the car was about 15 feet. End of story...we drove to the police station. The shooter was arrested and pleaded guilty to aggravated battery. I thought it should have been attempted murder but since we were not bodily hit, it was indeed aggravated battery. Shooter got what he deserved....lots of jail time. My lesson learned. Never help a girlfriend retrieve anything she says she left behind at her previous rental apartment when the landlord is not tightly wrapped. And a car door is better than nothing at all. It saved my life that day.
__________________
45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member |
June 9, 2011, 10:26 AM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 21, 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 340
|
Quote:
|
|
June 9, 2011, 10:33 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,461
|
Good video. I wish they would have repeated all the shots with the car door. Seems as if the AK is a little more potent than the 9mm and the .357, at a minimum, and I think a car door is way better than nothing for handgun fire.
Another point is that the full auto fire looks impressive, but it's unlikely you will run into it, and also that any individual bullet does the same damage whether it's fired full auto or not. Last edited by spacecoast; June 9, 2011 at 10:43 AM. |
June 9, 2011, 12:41 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,783
|
If you're lucky, the bullet will hit a double-layered portion of the window regulator; there's always that chance, making the door, as has already been said, better than nothing. In many cars nowadays there is also a crash bar welded to the door. Anything inside the door will help some. If it is the only cover I have, I would certainly use it.
__________________
Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed. |
June 9, 2011, 02:08 PM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 3, 2009
Location: Not close enough to the beach
Posts: 1,477
|
Quote:
|
|
June 9, 2011, 03:11 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 11,132
|
I guess I was surprised at the huge difference between .50 BMG and any of the other rounds. I somewhat expected it to just go through and through without transferring that much energy.
|
June 9, 2011, 04:04 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 1,552
|
Car door is better than nothing and if you are subjected to .50 bmg fire and in a standard car you're fighting for the wrong side.
|
June 9, 2011, 09:02 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 2,074
|
Thre are lots of things inside a car door.. Panels, Electric motors, metal bracketing, glass, outter metal skin, inner composit skin... All Of Which Are Harder Than My Skin.
If a car door is all I have then its what I will use.. Same as a garbage can or wooden post. Its easy to say, dont use a car door as cover- if there is a brick wall available.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... |
June 9, 2011, 09:30 PM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 21, 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,424
|
Quote:
A class IIIA bullet resistant vest would not stop or reduce (much) the effect of a 7.62 x 39 bullet. I remember reading a magazine article from decades ago where the author shot some popular (for the times) handgun cartridges into a car trying to hit a plywood target placed in the driver's location. He found that the 200gr lead round nose .38 spl from a 2" revolver would not penetrate the windshield or the car door. I think the velocity was about 600 fps. The 115gr HP 9mm only penetrated the windshield about 50% of the time and what got through was so deflected and reduced in power it would not penetrate a 1/4" plywood target. The 125gr HP .357 magnum would shatter the windshield but not penetrate. The 158gr HP .357 magnum always penetrated.
__________________
NRA Life Member - Orange Gunsite Member - NRA Certified Pistol Instructor "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society,
they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat |
|
June 9, 2011, 10:32 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
The only reason you should use a car door is if you are actively driving out of the area.
Otherwise, you will get much more protection from the engine block (crouching/kneeling) or the wheels (prone). |
June 9, 2011, 11:24 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,834
|
They didn't shoot at a car door, but a barrel of water... It's a little different.
Anyway, get out of your car if your getting shot at, its a death trap inside. Get to the back where the trunk is, all that metal. If the shooter is coming from the front of the car that is. |
June 10, 2011, 12:27 AM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 21, 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 340
|
they shoot the car door in the end 9mm, but only with the AK which unsurprisingly penetrates.
|
June 10, 2011, 05:31 PM | #16 |
Member
Join Date: February 1, 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 92
|
Also, if you look at the distance they are shooting, it is going to be handgun range. Maybe 40 yards max. A .22 rifle will penetrate that stripped down car door at that distance....
But even though the video seriously slanted the sights on the usefulness of a car door as cover. Using that car door is better than running out into the open to better cover 45 yards away under fire.
__________________
if at first you dont succeed, get a bigger hammer! |
June 11, 2011, 01:02 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 10, 2009
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 727
|
Car doors and body panels are much better cover than you would think.
Penetration lessens greatly if the bullet doesn't hit at a 90 degree angle. If you don't believe me, check out all of the police videos showing cars being hit dozens of times and nobody inside is hit, much less killed. Any one bullet could go through, but they usually don't. It is hard to get bullets into a car. |
June 11, 2011, 02:29 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 15, 2005
Posts: 633
|
car door
Agree, it is better than air.
Penetration into cars depends a great deal on bullet shape and construction, but mostly on the angle of strike. A number of people, including the late Jim Cirillo have demonstrated that as the strike angle deviates from 90 deg, penetration goes down. Cirillo demonstrated that a round nose bullet will deflect most readily. The Russians knew this long ago; that's why the T-34 tank had sloped armor. Even a shell travelling parallel to the ground will strike the armor at less than 90 deg., to the consternation of the Wehrmacht at the time. |
June 13, 2011, 03:42 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 27, 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 445
|
I have a video from a Federal Agency where they fired about 300 rounds of 9mm, .38,.357, .45, and 12 gauge buck at a sedan with two cardboard targets in it. They fired from dead ahead, and then from the left side, at about 10-15 feet.
1. Neither target had a hit on it. 2. They started up the car and drove it about 100 yards, flat tires, leaking fluids, and all. Also, stop by a wrecking yard and check out what is inside a car door. It offers much more protection than a tee shirt. But as noted the best thing to do is use the car to exit the kill zone! Or, remember that a Ford at 30 MPH has more energy than the heaviest .500 S&W load - deadly force is deadly force.
__________________
Sleuth Last edited by Sleuth; June 13, 2011 at 03:50 PM. |
June 13, 2011, 05:02 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,560
|
Any cover is better than no cover at all...
|
June 13, 2011, 10:47 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
Any cover may be better than no cover at all, but if you are going to use a car for cover, how much harder is it to get behind a solid structure (wheel, engine block) than to get behind a door?
|
June 13, 2011, 11:04 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,834
|
Depends on the vehicle. We used to own this station wagon, I swear the doors were paper thin. On our other cars they are much thicker.
|
June 14, 2011, 11:14 AM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 27, 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 445
|
There appear to be some hidden presumptions here, including in my own post: Are you in the car, or out of it?
Is the car moving, or stopped? Can you move the car? What direction is the attack coming from - front, rear, drivers side, passenger side? Can you drive out of the kill zone, or are you truly blocked in? Could you get out by driving on the sidewalk? And most important: Are you the target of a dedicated attack, or just blocking someone's escape? All of them change the potential answers. First, as always, we must define our terms and frame of reference.
__________________
Sleuth |
June 14, 2011, 05:59 PM | #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 7, 2009
Location: Southern California.
Posts: 254
|
See the Box O' Truth!
Pistols: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot3.htm
Rifles: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot4.htm I have seen the information here verified in the "Best Defense" on the outdoor channel. Bottom line: "Cars are bullet magnets, get behind the engine block if you can't get away from the car. Then, get away for the car ASAP!" Edit: Windsheilds too! http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot1.htm http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot2.htm Don't forget the shotguns versus the car! http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot5.htm And finally, the engine: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot7.htm
__________________
Clinging to my God and my guns! Luke 22:36 Quote:
Last edited by WW2; June 14, 2011 at 06:29 PM. |
|
June 16, 2011, 03:22 AM | #25 | |
Junior member
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Posts: 1,740
|
Quote:
Or instead, look for the nearest couch. At least that takes there sight picture site out. They learned that the hard way in LA against AK47s. |
|
|
|