What to do when you see someone pulling a NFA "dumbass"?

[Skans]

How come the BATFE didn't make the arrest - local cop had to do it?

[dogtown tom]

Skans: How come the BATFE didn't make the arrest - local cop had to do it?

Well, from the linked article it appears the officer who observed him made the arrest. ATF probably wasn't there, but interviewed later.

[mskdgunman]

There are not as many BATF folks around as you might think. Like LEO's everywhere they are understaffed (despite what the web says). It's usually a local who makes a case like that and then picks up the phone and calls the feds. They can then elect to either let the State file the charges or pick the case up for Federal prosecution. Depending on the circumstances and the guys history, those kind of cases will usually, not always, stay at the State level. Now, if the guy is manufacturing and selling the things or he has a lengthly felony record, the Feds would probably take the case.

A lot depends on the Federal district and how aggressive they are. YMMV

[webhead]

A friend of mine is sure ATF was there.

I think a dealer at the show saw the rifle, alerted the onsite sheriff and the sheriff called ATF to verify the violation and then arrested the man. But that's what I think. Can't confirm that from the wonderful job of reporting since it's more hyperbolas than facts. Still trying to figure out the short barreled assault rifle part. No indication that it was fully automatic as well. I'd think the ATF is more concerned about that than being too short.

[johnwilliamson062]

I usually just send them an e-mail that says something to the effect of "it's hard to be sure from that picture, but it looks like that might be in violation of [insert law]. If I were you I would temporarily remove the ad and check to be sure it is not."

[gyvel]

There are not as many BATF folks around as you might think. Like LEO's everywhere they are understaffed (despite what the web says). It's usually a local who makes a case like that and then picks up the phone and calls the feds. They can then elect to either let the State file the charges or pick the case up for Federal prosecution.

True.

About 10 years or so ago, a local gunsmith in a very small town in northern AZ was making illegal MAC 10s. What got him was that he was test firing them out in nearby places (lots of BLM land around) and attracted "attention."

The County Sheriffs made the arrest, called BATF and were told that they had no interest in the case and go ahead and prosecute locally.

The guy was prosecuted, but received a minimal sentence and lost a rather large gun collection as a result.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

There are not as many BATF folks around as you might think. Like LEO's everywhere they are understaffed (despite what the web says).

In 1993, approximately 764 ATF Inspectors and 1,660 Agents monitored 282,000 FFLs. Today, 771 Inspectors and 2,441 Agents monitor 60,201 FFLs. Source.

In relative terms, ATF has increased their manpower by approximately 33% at a time when the number of people they were watching shrunk by over 67%.

As far as NFA "dumbass" moments go, I don't see it as meddling or nosy to point out to someone that they are doing something that could earn them a minimum 5 years in a federal prison. I am not going to call the ATF if they ignore my advice; but I know I would much rather a fellow shooter give me a heads up if I was ignorant about something than get one from an ATF agent right before I get arrested.

[Chipperman]

gyvel said,

...a local gunsmith in a very small town in northern AZ was making illegal MAC 10s...

....called BATF and were told that they had no interest in the case and go ahead and prosecute locally....

That surprises the heck out of me. I would have thought ATF would be all over a guy making multiple illegal machine guns.

Was he selling them also?

[gyvel]

That surprises the heck out of me. I would have thought ATF would be all over a guy making multiple illegal machine guns.

Was he selling them also?

That part was unclear to me; I believe he was making them for his own use.

[4thPointofContact]

redacted pending further research

[dogtown tom]

4thPointofContact: redacted pending further research

How dare you?

This is the intarnets, no research allowed.

[mrnkc130]

go to you tube some time and type in homemade silencer...there are all sorts of videos of people making crude silencers out of bottles and even some more elaborate ones...I realize some of these people may have filled out the forms and paid the tax, but i highly doubt all of them did. Many were made of what looks like bottles and electrical tape, unlikely a $200 bottle...

All the ones I watched users were still active and making comments on thier videos so I wouldnt assume anything was ever done about it...I saw several comments from people who appear to be knowledgeable in NFA items, but couldnt find any comments from OP's replying to them...

10 min on the internet could probably turn up quite a few easily trackable violations...interesting at least i think in regards to enforcement...

[JerseyDrez]

I mind my own business.

I concur.

[Oldfalguy]

Other than the aforementioned youtube idiots I have not seen much in the way of blatant dum dum.
Mostly its folks having a weapon on a table with a short barrel for sale and not stating its NFA on the sign- I can sorta understand that but it makes me look which is the intent of advertising I reckon.

[IdahoG36]

I look at it this way. I don't work for BATFE. And I just don't give a dern about policing those people who violate NFA laws. What do I really care if some guy has a shotgun that is two inches too short? Or, has a stock or foregrip on his pistol? Can anyone, even law enforcement, tell me why someone else having these things should be any concern whatsoever to me?

My sentiments exactly. I don't work the for the BATFE, so what do I care. It doesn't affect me in the least.

[Tim R]

I look at it this way. I don't work for BATFE. And I just don't give a dern about policing those people who violate NFA laws. What do I really care if some guy has a shotgun that is two inches too short? Or, has a stock or foregrip on his pistol? Can anyone, even law enforcement, tell me why someone else having these things should be any concern whatsoever to me?

So you see some gang banger and his buddies out shootin' a illegal gat and you don't call the po po on your way out?

[jughead2]

this old man would really be glad if he was unknowingly doing something like that one would enlighten him of his folly.

[Crosshair]

I look at it this way. I don't work for BATFE. And I just don't give a dern about policing those people who violate NFA laws. What do I really care if some guy has a shotgun that is two inches too short? Or, has a stock or foregrip on his pistol? Can anyone, even law enforcement, tell me why someone else having these things should be any concern whatsoever to me?

It may not be a concern to you, but the person who has the gun likely is unaware of the law they are breaking. It IS your job as a supporter of the 2nd to educate people about firearms and that includes NFA. It isn't any of your business what they own, however the gov will make it their business if they find out.

Do you tell someone when they have a burned out headlight on their car and may not realize it? If they have a flat tire? If you hear their engine pinging? If you see that they have a visibly bent tie-rod? If they have their trailer hooked up incorrectly? Sure it's none of your business, but informing someone of a problem they may not be aware of is the responsible thing to do

If they do know and don't care, then just go about your business. You don't have to report them to the police, I don't.

[Skans]

So you see some gang banger and his buddies out shootin' a illegal gat and you don't call the po po on your way out?

I have no idea what "gat" is. Is it an SBR or short barreled shotgun - because that's what I was addressing.

If I see a gang banger look at me the wrong way, at the very least, I'll snap a pictutre of him, and there's a 50/50 chance I'll call the cops just to let him know "We're watching". I don't care for "gangs" and punks hanging around causing trouble. I have no problem getting in their faces and demand that they leave, if I think I have justification to do so.

[Skans]

It may not be a concern to you, but the person who has the gun likely is unaware of the law they are breaking. It IS your job as a supporter of the 2nd to educate people about firearms and that includes NFA.

I am a supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Although I myself adhear to all firearms laws, I consider the NFA unconstitutional. If I want to work for BATFE, I'd send in my application, go through the interview process and collect my paycheck for the services you seem to think I need to do for them for free.

When someone goes up to another person they don't know and says, for example "hey, buddy, did you know that rifle of yours looks to be 2"'s too short and you could be looking at some serious penalties" - that person has no idea whether you intend to turn him in, or where you're coming from.

If someone asks me about NFA laws, I'll gladly inform them of what I know to the best of my ability. But, I'm not a BATFE agent snooping around for what I consider to be technical violations of an absurd, inconsistant and unconstitutional law.

Having mechanical problems with a car isn't comparable to people violating laws. Here are a list of other laws that I don't inform people that they are breaking:

- Speed Limits (unless you're speeding through my neighborhood)
- Zoning violations
- watering restrictions
- riding ATV's or dirt bikes on rural public roads
- fishing or hunting without a license
- Drinking beer at public outdoor events
- Bikes with loud pipes
- women who happen to flash me randomly (I wish)
- people who have black boxes that steal HBO or whatever other paid TV
- folks who copy their friends CD's, computer programs, etc.

There's a whole slew of things that other people do that break some technical law that I could totally care less about. If our government thinks it's beneficial in some way to pay people tax payer's dollars to go around and sniff these kinds of criminals out and prosecute them, then about the only thing I can do about it is keep on voting for "shrink the government" advocates.

It isn't any of your business what they own, however the gov will make it their business if they find out.

That's right, if you own a gun, you better know the laws. Unfortunately, it's the government's business to enforce stupid firearms laws that have no purpose whatsoever. It's not my business, and I have no intention of letting the government make it my business.

[Willie Lowman]

I have no idea what "gat" is.

Gat is very old slang for a gun. Typically a handgun. Gat is a term used by or associated with criminals that is around a century old.

[freakintoguns]

+1 skans, i find the NFA and AWB to be highly unconstitutional. the gun grabbers retiritic about criminals haing these weapons is flawed, they still have them with the NFA and AWB because, OMG!, there criminals

[4thPointofContact]

Originally Posted by 4thPointofContact

redacted pending further research

Originally Posted by dogtown

How dare you? This is the intarnets, no research allowed.

Still haven't found the information I was looking for, but from memory someone asked the AFT which replied that to 'make safe' a Street Sweeper the magazine could be removed so that it would no longer have a 12-gauge chamber (which was what brings the 'Sweeper into DD territory and that the USAS could have the barrel removed to take it out to make it a non-DD. There was something about it still being registered somewhere in the system (fuzzy memory) though.

Parts kits for the USAS-12, sans barrel [means 'without' for you government school types] were available in Shotgun News for a while after the USAS was taken off the market. It was a shotgun, but without a 12-gauge barrel it wasn't a DD. I guess if someone were to make a USAS-12 in .410 then it would be a non-DD firearm. and quite useless, too.


I'm wondering what the BATF's position would be if someone had a USAS parts kit (without the barrel) and then wanted to make it a DD by finding a barrel on Gunbroker or some such?


(( Skans.... ever take a look at the receiver of your USAS to see if it has that thing I mentioned? ))

[Willie Lowman]

It is perfectly legal to build a DD on form 1.

There is a guy on UT selling a USAS barrel and piston.

[hknut]

During the Clinton AWB. I noticed a 11.5 with 5.5 pinned AR for $1000. Everone else was asking $1200-1500 for theirs. the seller told me it had some Full Auto parts in it. I passed on the deal and told the show security staff. For the next 6 months that gun sat on the same dealers table, I again told the show staff. It had to be a sting if our show promoters didn't do any thing about it. Our promoters don't want another black eye. Our VP of our club got busted for having illegal machine's in his home. He is/was doing Fed jail time for it.