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Old October 11, 2017, 04:44 PM   #76
stephen426
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I found this online. http://simunition.com/en/products/theme/civilian . It looks pretty interesting.

I think TFL should work on some area meets so we can start putting faces to names and build some real relationships. At a minimum, I think most of us would be less snarky knowing that we are all real live people rather than just a screen name.
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Old October 11, 2017, 04:54 PM   #77
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen426
...Can simunition rounds be fired out of most guns (does it have the power to cycle the slide of most semi-auto guns) or does some kind of modification need to be done (Special barrel and weaker springs)....
No. The guns must be specially modified:
Quote:
...The Simunition® conversion kit, conversion bolt, bolt carrier assembly and safety-ring insert allow the FX® Marking Cartridges and the SecuriBlank® to be fired safely from the user’s own service weapon. These easy-to-install kits help preclude the inadvertent chambering of live ammunition and ensure the proper operation and cycling of the weapons. They are an integral part of the FX® training system along with the FX® marking cartridges and the FX® protective equipment....
A number of schools/instructors use airsoft effectively for force-on-force training.

Quote:
Originally Posted by =stephen426
...Regardless of how realistic the training is, I still believe there is a degree of "this is still training" so the fear and adrenaline is not the same....
That's true to a point. But having done a bit of simulator and force-on-force training it's been my experience that there is an adrenaline factor.

I think anything that adds further stress to the training beyond that of square range exercise is helpful.
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Old October 11, 2017, 05:20 PM   #78
stephen426
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Any idea on pricing for the Simunition kits? Their site doesn't give pricing, but it probably isn't cheap. While I like the idea of attending a course with my regular carry gun, I'd probably be fine with taking a course with the closest gun I could get.

I used to use airsoft when ammo was scarce and prices were crazy. It is amazing how accurate some of those guns can be even though they are fairly cheap. My main drill was practicing point shooting and trying to acquire the target as quickly as possible. That way the gun "becomes part of my hand" and points instinctively. It is critical to get a decent quality airsoft that mimics your carry weapon.

Also, I am not saying that there is no adrenaline dump with simulations. As mentioned earlier, competition (against others or time) can create a lot of stress an simulate real world situations. Better to practice under some stress and learn to develop your skills under adverse conditions.
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Old October 11, 2017, 05:24 PM   #79
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Agreed any training above just punching paper on a range where you can't move draw etc is better.

Even le shoot houses and the best any training facility can provide one still knows the ammo ain't real, and your not gonna die. At least not from being shot.

It will help one gain familiarity with one's weapon in various scenarios and reveal weakness in shooting skills.

However it in no way approaches being shot at for real by someone intending to do you harm.
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Old October 12, 2017, 10:19 AM   #80
Glenn E. Meyer
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Of course, training is not the real thing. But what else is there besides trying to have reasonable simulations? There are data and studies that show such training has aided military and police in critical situations.

Thus, what is the point? Send pilots into combat without some Red Flag exercises? That didn't work out well in past air-to-arir combat. When introduced, our pilots did better.

In WWII - pilots got even better with more combat flying time. However, the analyses after the war indicated that they needed more simulated training. That was not always possible given the demand for people. Since most police and civilians can't go through hours of real combat - simulations are the best we have.
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Old October 12, 2017, 10:24 AM   #81
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Well run professional SIMMS training is about as real as it gets. Heart pumping, tunnel vision, etc.
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Old October 12, 2017, 10:29 AM   #82
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Any idea on pricing for the Simunition kits? Their site doesn't give pricing
Simunitions doesn't sell to the general public. For liability reasons, they maintain very close control over who they sell to. That is one reason a lot of force on force training is conducted with airsoft.
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Old October 12, 2017, 12:39 PM   #83
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Quote:
Simunitions doesn't sell to the general public. For liability reasons, they maintain very close control over who they sell to. That is one reason a lot of force on force training is conducted with airsoft.
Absoulutely.

As stated on an earlier post, training facilities that provide exercises with Simunitions rarely allow students to participate with them before having taken a number of prerequisite courses.

A friend of mine participated in FoF exercise at Asymmetric Solutions near Farmington, MO. It involved mush more than shooting at a human target that might fire back in lie of shooing at a motorized inanimate target.

The scenarios involved threat recognition, human interactions, the "interview" , shoot/no-shoot decisions, the presence of innocents moving around, and so on. Simply trying out the tools without really high quality instruction and coaching would not be helpful.
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Old October 14, 2017, 11:37 AM   #84
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Getting a Simunitions certification isn't that hard. You just have to be a certified instructor, have $2M in insurance, and take an online course. That is it.

The ammunition is expensive along the lines of $1 per round, but unlike airsoft there typically is no argument if you got hit. It hurts like a mother and leaves a paint mark most of the time. Speer has their own generic Simunition FX ammo (the patent expired a couple of years ago), but I am not sure they sell to anyone other than LE agencies.
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