what to do about brother in law?

[MrChick]

Originally Posted by rem870hunter

Wow..been awhile since i've been on here. Sadly my father passed away on Jan 18th 2024

I’m sorry for your loss. I pray your BIL has grown up a little and things go smoothly.

[Spats McGee]

Originally Posted by rem870hunter

Wow..been awhile since i've been on here. Sadly my father passed away on Jan 18th 2024

I am very sorry for your loss.

[rem870hunter]

Armoredman....The trustee is Mom..who's still living..thank God. years ago a few things were given. Mom is left everything of his. However the Codicils (first was done in 1998..i was 24 or 25 then) are specific that i get ALL.

Radom very sorry...

[rem870hunter]

DaleA some but no proof though..it could be he's pressuring sister though

[rem870hunter]

MrChick thank you.. however what i've seen and heard he hasn't

Spats McGee thank you

[cdoc42]

rem870hunter, I see no mention of estate inheritance tax on this thread, and I have no knowledge or experience in the matter, just a question that was created while reading this thread. If the guns are in your father's will, how is the value calculated and included as part of the estate's total value? Will the recipient of any part of the estate be responsible for paying the tax?

As I understand it, one way around this is to have the guns gifted to the desired recipient. I read that the current gift limit per year per person is $15,000. If your father's guns are worth $15,000 or less, he can gift them to you and neither party pays a tax. You can either take possession and safeguard them, or leave them with your father if you make them inaccessible to anyone but yourself, including your father. They would belong to you. You have the only key to any locks as well as the right to choose who you want to allow use of any gun. If you leave them with your father (so he doesn't feel he has "lost" them), I would suggest you obtain an insurance policy that specifically covers the loss in case of fire or theft. Your father might have homeowner's insurance but it generally, if at all, only covers an amount that won't match the total value of the guns, and a deductible that renders at least one of them uncovered.

[Greybeard Classic]

My parents were once avid hunters and had a closet full of firearms, and over the years a few had been sold off to cover bills. Originally they had said that when they pass, I was to get the guns. Now enter my hair-triggered, explosive tempered sister, out of the air force several years and now divorced, who my parents were always afraid to say no to, says she wants mom's guns, even though she can't shoot long guns due to a bad neck and back, AND HAS NEVER HUNTED, by choice. I contested, and now mommy and daddy, to make nice with her, said that we had to agree with each other who can get what after they are gone. It's not going to be pretty as she already wants the house, etc. I am not looking forward to that day...

[Aguila Blanca]

Greybeard, your parents should make their own decisions about who will get what, independent of you and your sister. They should then each make up wills, setting forth exactly what goes to which offspring, give copies of their wills to the family lawyer, and be done with it.

[rem870hunter]

Originally Posted by cdoc42

rem870hunter, I see no mention of estate inheritance tax on this thread, and I have no knowledge or experience in the matter, just a question that was created while reading this thread. If the guns are in your father's will, how is the value calculated and included as part of the estate's total value? Will the recipient of any part of the estate be responsible for paying the tax?

As I understand it, one way around this is to have the guns gifted to the desired recipient. I read that the current gift limit per year per person is $15,000. If your father's guns are worth $15,000 or less, he can gift them to you and neither party pays a tax. You can either take possession and safeguard them, or leave them with your father if you make them inaccessible to anyone but yourself, including your father. They would belong to you. You have the only key to any locks as well as the right to choose who you want to allow use of any gun. If you leave them with your father (so he doesn't feel he has "lost" them), I would suggest you obtain an insurance policy that specifically covers the loss in case of fire or theft. Your father might have homeowner's insurance but it generally, if at all, only covers an amount that won't match the total value of the guns, and a deductible that renders at least one of them uncovered.

cdoc42 the Codicils of the Will states that the Firearms are separate from anything. No mention of a Tax. NJ Firearms laws state they can be passed to me through a Will and that i'm exempt from paying any fees to do so. In the 3rd Codicil the BIL is listed as getting 1 of the pistols.
(It's not the Springfield 1911 in 45 acp that he asked for in 2002)..as long as 1 he's still married to my sister and 2 he can legally possess firearms.

[Skans]

Here are my thoughts.
1. First, before your dad dies, make sure that YOU are somehow the only one to gain access to the guns. You need to be worried about this both prior to his dying and just after his death. Take the guns and secure them.
2. Second, I wouldn't have any discussions with the Thug about your father's guns. Something's wrong with a guy who threatens his brother-in-law with physical harm to get a gun that is Willed to you.
3. Third, it sounds like you are in a restrictive handgun state. Make sure you have a plan for the guns transfer correctly to you - consult an FFL in your state.
4. It really would be best for your father to transfer the guns to you while you are living, especially when he no longer has any use for them.
5. If the Brother-in-law threatens you over a gun that is lawfully yours which he is not allowed to own, report it to the police.

[vito]

I'm late to this thread but wanted to add some advice, if you are open to such. Wills are great, and having an understanding with whoever is named as the Executor of the will is a very good idea, but think about what might actually happen when your dad dies. I've known of families where within seconds of the person stopping breathing, some relative rushes into their home and takes what they believe, or want to believe is intended for them.

From the comments you made about this brother-in-law, I would not be surprised if he is the type of person to just take what he wants regardless of the will, and might not even wait until your Dad has died. And once he has the gun or guns, to some degree the law will be on his side and you will have to sue to get them back. That kind of lawsuit can be costly, take forever, and with no guarantee that you would win. He could well tell some judge that yes, he was named in the will, but that orally, just before his death, he told your BIL that the gun is for him. He might be lying through his teeth but there is no guarantee that you would win in court.

Your Dad is only 60, pretty young from my point of view. He well could be around for another 25 or 30 years. But if he starts to be failing, that would be the best time to approach him and offer to take the guns for "safekeeping" or whatever words you want to use.

[rem870hunter]

Skans...my father passed away on Jan 18

[rem870hunter]

Vito he would go around the will.

They were seized in early December. Father had Daughter (my sister) get a lawyer. He supposedly told her to get them back whether i die or not. As far as i know the pd still has them

[rem870hunter]

**just an update** Everything was returned by the PD in July 2024. my sister & her husband were at the house & helped mom check them off the list as they brought out of the truck. before they (sister and hubby) left though they took 2 shotguns and 2 handguns. only 1 of the handguns were mentioned in the will as going to the BIL. the shotguns alledgely had tags with my fathers handwriting on them with their sons names. the other handgun they took was bought by my father for their daughter. they knew of it but it wasn't tagged. i've not asked for them back nor got a lawyer to sue my mother and her for going around the will. i don't have it in me to do that to my mother. i could care less about the shotguns they took. just would've been nice if they asked me beforehand about them and the handgun.

[Aguila Blanca]

The true nature of people has a tendency to show most clearly when a relative passes and all the inner vultures show themselves for what they are.

[stagpanther]

The true nature of people has a tendency to show most clearly when a relative passes and all the inner vultures show themselves for what they are.

Truer words were never spoke.

My brother destroyed our family by manipulating my mother and got her to change the will when she was well into dementia and neither myself or my sister knew anything about it until right before she passed. Her original 3 page will more or less split everything 3 ways; but my brother had her add a simple one sentence addendum that gave him 3/4 of her entire estate, my sister nothing at all, and 1/4 to me. He added extra spice to it by convincing our mother "we deserved it." He also got her to appoint him executer and gave him power of attorney over all of her affairs. When I got wind of all this I hired lawyers and they told me flat out that unless some other binding document exists that is also properly witnessed and notarized--my chances were not good. Once he secured all the money and the probate settled I never heard from him again.

I'm not spilling my guts to get everyone to say "gee, what an a-hole"--I already know that. The reason I mention it is because neither myself nor my sister thought it was any of our business to talk it over with our mother while she was still alive, and never in a million years would either of us thought our brother would be doing just the opposite; manipulating and maneuvering while we were in the dark. My point is that is just being naive--and any sense of "It's morbid to discuss while they are still alive" just leaves the door open for someone to screw even their own family members.

[2wheelwander]

Sorry for your loss stagpanther. My grandfather passed 6 years ago and my uncle tried to do these very things. 180 acre family farm had been in a trust for years. Grandpa had it written up a certain way on how and IF it could be sold. Uncle wanted his money NOW. He was a pallbearer when his oldest brother (my uncle died). While we were yet waiting outside the funeral parlor he said to me "We can finally get the ball rolling on this". Casket wasn't even closed yet. A real POS.

It's been 3 years since and he has gotten his due. Reap what you sow. I know his life is miserable.

When my Dad died though he promised to me when I was young I'd get all his guns. A few years before he passed he told me he wanted to make it fair for my sister and give her 50% value. Hurt me to my core. But, they were his to do with what he wanted. He gave me most of the best guns - fewer but more collectible - which is what I wanted. He specifically asked in the paperwork he drew up to split things, he requested his guns be passed down to children and grandchildren. Mom tells me my sister wants to sell hers. Couldn't be more p!$$ed, but also not surprised. I split everything just as my Dad wished. But, my sister is the drama queen get what she wants PITA.

Told my mother that after she passes I will never speak to my sister again - and I won't.

I completely get it. Wish you the best.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

My brother destroyed our family by manipulating my mother and got her to change the will when she was well into dementia and neither myself or my sister knew anything about it until right before she passed. Her original 3 page will more or less split everything 3 ways; but my brother had her add a simple one sentence addendum that gave him 3/4 of her entire estate, my sister nothing at all, and 1/4 to me. He added extra spice to it by convincing our mother "we deserved it." He also got her to appoint him executer and gave him power of attorney over all of her affairs. When I got wind of all this I hired lawyers and they told me flat out that unless some other binding document exists that is also properly witnessed and notarized--my chances were not good. Once he secured all the money and the probate settled I never heard from him again.

Perfect example. My uncle did the same thin to my grandfather, essentially taking advantage of my grandfather's dementia to write my mother and my aunt out of their father's will. Another uncle tried the same thing when my father died.


I haven't had any contact with my brother for over ten years because of similar shenanigans.

I'm pretty much of the opinion that every family has one such creature in each generation.

[stagpanther]

My sister was devastated. I ended up writing her a large check from my own money to make sure she wasn't totally abandoned in the estate process. The psychological damage can go way beyond just the financial one.

I completely get it. Wish you the best.

Thanks, but in talking with my lawyers (who BTW I ended up spending well over 100K on while my brother simply could draw upon the estate for expenses) while my brother waged war on myself and my sister they assured me that this kind of thing happens all the time (which I kind of suspect why they have become professionals at drawing these things out as long as possible). In France where I spend part of the year succession is an automatic thing determined by law; a cunning family member screwing other family members because of their own greed is almost impossible.

[Nathan]

Anybody else creeped out by arguing over the will of somebody who is still alive?

The guy is 60, per the OP. I’m not quite 60, but heck, I haven’t even considered a Will yet. Let him live.

As for the BIL, sounds like he will be lucky to still be in the picture by the time dad passes.

[stagpanther]

It happens to all of us eventually..the decline during which we become more vulnerable--and more reliant on others for basic care as the final curtain call approaches. I'm approaching 70 so I've been through this quite a few times already with other relatives. The most important thing I've learned is that I'm not going to leave anything in doubt in my will--because any loose end is potentially an invitation for abuse and open warfare among the family. It's easy to sound altruistic and modest while people are still in this world--but once they're gone and their estate is "up for grabs" that's when the predator instinct becomes more pronounced in some people.

[Skans]

Here's the real problem. When someone wants something as bad as your Brother-in-law does, he will try to get his hands on it either right before your dad dies, or right after. If your dad's guns are not secure, and you don't have access to them upon his death, you will have problems with this guy.

Don't put it past your sister to try and get the combination to your dad's safe for her husband to take one of the guns. Anyone who acts like an entitled baby over your dad's guns, like your Brother-in-law, threatening to kick your ass over this, is a problem that you better deal with in advance. He ain't F-ing around.

[Skans]

Originally Posted by honkylips

Anybody else creeped out by arguing over the will of somebody who is still alive?

Maybe just "buy" the guns from your dad now?

Maybe focus on other things, like spending time with your dad, and with other loved family members, and not worrying about your bro-in-law, who will likely continue to be an a-hole, no matter what.

No. I have seen these scenarios set-up more than I ever care to. IF Bro-in-law ends up stealing one of the guns, the OP will be in a terrible position -- does he report it as a theft? Does he let it slide? There's no good "out" for the OP, IF Bro-in-law gets his hands on the guns, or other stuff for that matter.

Bro-in-law has already showed his ass - that's actually a plus for the OP. The OP should keep his mouth shut, not telegraph what he intends on doing and then make sure anything of Dad's that is valuable is secured.

My guess is that the Spouse is the Executor, but if she dies first, then the OP may be the executor. He needs to understand this now. Not later. Talk to Dad about it. I doubt Dad will be offended and probably would like it that his son is taking an interest.

I can't tell you how many times after one Spouse dies and the other Spouse is in a vulnerable way - emotionally and maybe physically. That's when the vultures swoop in and take whatever they can get their grubby hands on. Often this is done not by the blood relatives, but by their husbands and wives. The OP is right to be concerned.

[Wyoredman]

I had a conversation with my Dad one day about his guns. He told me to come over to his house and get them all. He told me which ones I had to give to my sister who lives several states away. I told him that that sounded good to me.

He died three weeks after our conversation. Before I had a chance to get to his house.

My step-mother split them up as she pleased. She gave some to her son who my dad never had contact with. I am sure those guns are pawned by now.

I should not have dilly-dallied. My fault.

Got get those guns while your dad is alive. If you don't, you wont get them at all.

[tangolima]

My mother has one older sister (my aunt) and younger brother (my uncle). They have become waring enemies over my grandmother's estate, with my mother as a neutral country. Those two have been in and out of court for more than a decade. My mother is the only one in peace as she gave up her claim from day one.

They were together through thick and thin and everything in-between when they were young and poor. Now they want to grouch each other's eyes out, when they no longer have to worry about money. For what? Some extra money they don't really need. I know it is about the principles. Yeah.

Let it go. It may save you some health issues down the road.

-TL

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