Want to buy a pre-1898 gun

robertsig · February 23, 2016, 12:08 PM

I'm looking to buy my first (only?) pre-1899 antique gun. I have no particular purpose for it, nor preference for pistol vs rifle. What I want it something modern by the standards of the day, so I can use current ammunition off the shelf in whatever caliber it is. I don't want black powder. Something relatively easy to use or take care of would be preferable.

My first thought is an older Mosin or Finnish M39, but welcome other rifle (and pistol!) choices. What are some of the more common and readily available antique guns?

mapsjanhere · February 23, 2016, 12:23 PM

Chile Mauser 1895 is a good one, the whole series is pre-1898 so there's no questions on legality. Lacks the 3rd lug of the 1898 but otherwise close, and the 7x57 is still a serious hunting cartridge. Gew 88 is also a series completely in the antique range. Other "if early build" guns that can be antiques are 1891 Argentine and 1894 Swedish Mausers, both of which you can still get ammo for.

robertsig · February 23, 2016, 12:45 PM

A Swedish Mauser made in 1897 or 1898 is on my radar. The 7mm's are certainly a good idea too. Thanks!

98 220 swift · February 23, 2016, 01:36 PM

I really like my argentine 1891 mauser in 7.65x53. Some where made before 1898. Mine was made in 1892. I like it so much I took it deer hunting this past season and took a button buck with one shot at about 75 yards. Beware a lot where sporterized in the 50-60s and are being passed off as carbines. Very well made rifles. The gew 1888 rifles can have a .318 bore size that makes them dangerous with modern 8x57 ammo. some have been changed to .321 or .323. Even with a .323 bore they cant take full bore 8x57 loads. Us factory made ammo would be fine as it is downloaded. I reload for my 1888 gew. I use the min loads in the manual. Mine has the .321 bore.

James K · February 23, 2016, 02:03 PM

Just remember that the antique cutoff date in the law is THROUGH 31 December 1898, and that the date of the gun is the date of MANUFACTURE, not the Model date. So a Krag Model 1898 or a Mauser Model 1895 could be an antique or a "modern" gun depending on when that individual gun was made.

Jim

mapsjanhere · February 23, 2016, 02:19 PM

Jim, all of the original 1895 Chile Mauser with the Loewe manufacturer marking are antiques. There are later DWM ones but I thought those are marked as 1898.

kilimanjaro · February 23, 2016, 04:00 PM

If you have the bucks, look at the Mauser C96 Broomhandle pistol, and definitely the Krag-Jorgensen rifle. Those are about the best of the 1898 gang.

Also look for the Lee-Metford rifle, and the early Mauser rifles.

If you reload, the choices improve along with your ammo availability. You can also lighten up the loads a bit and prevent breakage of parts.

Don't buy anything not in original condition if you want resale value.

aarondhgraham · February 23, 2016, 05:06 PM

Mine is barrel marked 1903,,,
It was the first military revolver designed for smokeless powder.

The good thing is ammunition is available for it,,,
Fiocchi makes a run of this stuff every few years or so.

I was able to score 550 rounds the last run.

gadscustomcartridges.com will load ammo for you,,,
He does them off of 32-20 cartridges.

I put 12 rounds through mine just a few months back,,,
Mine is strong, accurate, and a blast to shoot,,,
And it has that great steampunk look I like.

There's one on gunbroker right now.

Aarond

.

Gunplummer · February 24, 2016, 04:57 AM

French stuff IS interesting. A lot of little designs were "Borrowed" for other guns.

drobs · February 24, 2016, 06:43 AM

Here's some reading for you with a list of makes, models, and serial numbers:
http://www.rawles.to/Pre-1899_FAQ.html

robertsig · February 24, 2016, 06:56 AM

THat's a good link. Thanks.

James K · February 24, 2016, 01:15 PM

Hi, mapsjanhere,

You are correct on the Chilean Mauser. I used that as an example without checking the details. Maybe I can make it a Swedish Model 1896, or a Winchester 1873, or a Colt 1878 or any of the other zillions of guns made in that era by folks who didn't know that in 70 years or so there would be a law that made the manufacture date important.

Jim

gyvel · February 25, 2016, 03:37 AM

What is your purpose in wanting a pre-1899 weapon that fires modern ammunition? Are you trying to avoid a 4473? In some jurisdictions, they are still classified locally as firearms or deadly weapons.

robertsig · February 25, 2016, 06:48 AM

What's a 4473?

I have about a dozen guns now. I just wanted something in that category.

mapsjanhere · February 25, 2016, 05:31 PM

4473 is the federal form you have to fill to transfer a gun at a dealer. Some people try to avoid them if they're prohibited from owning a gun by buying an antique so I'm not sure what the rules are (as felons are often even prohibited from owning even large knives).

robertsig · February 25, 2016, 05:44 PM

Ahh, no that's not me. I have quite a collection already. I'd buy a full-auto gun for the collection too if it wasn't so cost prohibitive.

perazzi · March 7, 2016, 08:26 PM

about 1881, belgium British Bulldog .442 copy...

perazzi · March 7, 2016, 08:31 PM

Smith and Wesson Safety hammerless, 1897, .38 S&W.

Pathfinder45 · March 9, 2016, 05:45 PM

If I was going to start collecting guns that old, I would be thinking primarily of Old West artifacts like Winchester, Marlin, Colt, Sharps, Remington, etc.

robertsig · March 9, 2016, 05:50 PM

I got myself a Finnish M39 from 1896 so I'm good now. Looks to be in very good shape!

Clark · March 13, 2016, 10:56 AM

I have an M39 that I figured out the date. The internet and some proof marks did it.
http://www.mosinnagant.net/ussr/mosi...t_markings.asp

The barrel is marked Sako VKT 1944
The proof marks on the receiver mean Westinghouse 1915-18

I got it for $90 off a gunshow table in 2004

rightside · March 13, 2016, 12:12 PM

Do you know how difficult it is to convince a pawn shop or even gun stores that they don't have to do the paperwork on a pre 1898 weapon? Most of them insist on doing paperwork anyway, "just in case".

johnwilliamson062 · March 13, 2016, 02:06 PM

The 6.X55 Krag would be my choice for a rifle. The C96 for a pistol.

Clark · March 13, 2016, 02:08 PM

I did paperwork in this 1896 built rifle 3 weeks ago.... don't care... no serial number

Wait a minute, there is a serial number, the pawn shop did not find it.

robertsig · March 13, 2016, 06:38 PM

Whoah. Just read about the Krag. Is it the same 6.5x55 Swede ammo? If so, that would go well with my existing Swedes.

February 23, 2016, 12:08 PM	#1
robertsig Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 262	Want to buy a pre-1898 gun I'm looking to buy my first (only?) pre-1899 antique gun. I have no particular purpose for it, nor preference for pistol vs rifle. What I want it something modern by the standards of the day, so I can use current ammunition off the shelf in whatever caliber it is. I don't want black powder. Something relatively easy to use or take care of would be preferable. My first thought is an older Mosin or Finnish M39, but welcome other rifle (and pistol!) choices. What are some of the more common and readily available antique guns?

February 23, 2016, 12:23 PM	#2
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Chile Mauser 1895 is a good one, the whole series is pre-1898 so there's no questions on legality. Lacks the 3rd lug of the 1898 but otherwise close, and the 7x57 is still a serious hunting cartridge. Gew 88 is also a series completely in the antique range. Other "if early build" guns that can be antiques are 1891 Argentine and 1894 Swedish Mausers, both of which you can still get ammo for. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

February 23, 2016, 02:19 PM	#6
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Jim, all of the original 1895 Chile Mauser with the Loewe manufacturer marking are antiques. There are later DWM ones but I thought those are marked as 1898. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

February 23, 2016, 05:06 PM	#8
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Model 1892 8mm Lebel revolver,,, Mine is barrel marked 1903,,, It was the first military revolver designed for smokeless powder. The good thing is ammunition is available for it,,, Fiocchi makes a run of this stuff every few years or so. I was able to score 550 rounds the last run. gadscustomcartridges.com will load ammo for you,,, He does them off of 32-20 cartridges. I put 12 rounds through mine just a few months back,,, Mine is strong, accurate, and a blast to shoot,,, And it has that great steampunk look I like. There's one on gunbroker right now. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

February 25, 2016, 03:37 AM	#13
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	What is your purpose in wanting a pre-1899 weapon that fires modern ammunition? Are you trying to avoid a 4473? In some jurisdictions, they are still classified locally as firearms or deadly weapons. __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE

February 23, 2016, 12:45 PM	#3
robertsig Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 262	A Swedish Mauser made in 1897 or 1898 is on my radar. The 7mm's are certainly a good idea too. Thanks!

February 23, 2016, 01:36 PM	#4
98 220 swift Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2015 Location: Perryville MO Posts: 426	I really like my argentine 1891 mauser in 7.65x53. Some where made before 1898. Mine was made in 1892. I like it so much I took it deer hunting this past season and took a button buck with one shot at about 75 yards. Beware a lot where sporterized in the 50-60s and are being passed off as carbines. Very well made rifles. The gew 1888 rifles can have a .318 bore size that makes them dangerous with modern 8x57 ammo. some have been changed to .321 or .323. Even with a .323 bore they cant take full bore 8x57 loads. Us factory made ammo would be fine as it is downloaded. I reload for my 1888 gew. I use the min loads in the manual. Mine has the .321 bore.

February 23, 2016, 02:03 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Just remember that the antique cutoff date in the law is THROUGH 31 December 1898, and that the date of the gun is the date of MANUFACTURE, not the Model date. So a Krag Model 1898 or a Mauser Model 1895 could be an antique or a "modern" gun depending on when that individual gun was made. Jim

February 23, 2016, 04:00 PM	#7
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	If you have the bucks, look at the Mauser C96 Broomhandle pistol, and definitely the Krag-Jorgensen rifle. Those are about the best of the 1898 gang. Also look for the Lee-Metford rifle, and the early Mauser rifles. If you reload, the choices improve along with your ammo availability. You can also lighten up the loads a bit and prevent breakage of parts. Don't buy anything not in original condition if you want resale value.

February 24, 2016, 04:57 AM	#9
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	French stuff IS interesting. A lot of little designs were "Borrowed" for other guns.

February 24, 2016, 06:43 AM	#10
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	Here's some reading for you with a list of makes, models, and serial numbers: http://www.rawles.to/Pre-1899_FAQ.html

February 24, 2016, 06:56 AM	#11
robertsig Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 262	THat's a good link. Thanks.

February 24, 2016, 01:15 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, mapsjanhere, You are correct on the Chilean Mauser. I used that as an example without checking the details. Maybe I can make it a Swedish Model 1896, or a Winchester 1873, or a Colt 1878 or any of the other zillions of guns made in that era by folks who didn't know that in 70 years or so there would be a law that made the manufacture date important. Jim

February 25, 2016, 06:48 AM	#14
robertsig Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 262	What's a 4473? I have about a dozen guns now. I just wanted something in that category.

February 25, 2016, 05:31 PM	#15
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	4473 is the federal form you have to fill to transfer a gun at a dealer. Some people try to avoid them if they're prohibited from owning a gun by buying an antique so I'm not sure what the rules are (as felons are often even prohibited from owning even large knives). __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

February 25, 2016, 05:44 PM	#16
robertsig Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 262	Ahh, no that's not me. I have quite a collection already. I'd buy a full-auto gun for the collection too if it wasn't so cost prohibitive.

March 7, 2016, 08:26 PM	#17
perazzi Junior Member Join Date: January 14, 2010 Location: Hell, Michigan Posts: 12	about 1881, belgium British Bulldog .442 copy...

March 7, 2016, 08:31 PM	#18
perazzi Junior Member Join Date: January 14, 2010 Location: Hell, Michigan Posts: 12	Smith and Wesson Safety hammerless, 1897, .38 S&W.

March 9, 2016, 05:45 PM	#19
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	If I was going to start collecting guns that old, I would be thinking primarily of Old West artifacts like Winchester, Marlin, Colt, Sharps, Remington, etc.

March 9, 2016, 05:50 PM	#20
robertsig Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 262	I got myself a Finnish M39 from 1896 so I'm good now. Looks to be in very good shape! Last edited by robertsig; March 9, 2016 at 05:51 PM. Reason: .

March 13, 2016, 12:12 PM	#22
rightside Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 419	Do you know how difficult it is to convince a pawn shop or even gun stores that they don't have to do the paperwork on a pre 1898 weapon? Most of them insist on doing paperwork anyway, "just in case".

March 13, 2016, 02:06 PM	#23
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	The 6.X55 Krag would be my choice for a rifle. The C96 for a pistol.

March 13, 2016, 06:38 PM	#25
robertsig Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 262	Whoah. Just read about the Krag. Is it the same 6.5x55 Swede ammo? If so, that would go well with my existing Swedes.