M1 Garand scratches brass - feed problems

Economist · February 10, 2015, 12:59 PM

I have an M1 that is giving me problems. It is a CAI receiver that appears to have been unfired when I bought it. The bolt is very hesitant to feed the first few cartridges in any clip.
I made up a few dummy rounds to see what the problem was, and when I inspected the brass after working a few through the action, I saw that the receiver is leaving long scratches in the sides of the first two cartridges that feed from the right side of the clip. The scratches are deep enough to catch a fingernail in, and there are small brass shavings in the receiver.
I inspected the receiver on the right side, and it appears that the cartridges are getting scraped along a sharp corner on the receiver in front of the en block clip. I don't have a real Garand receiver for reference, so I need to know if it is safe to file down the sharp corner.
This isn't the first time I have had to take a file to this receiver, I also had problems with the bolt catching on the lip on the top back part of the receiver.

Orlando · February 10, 2015, 07:10 PM

CAI receivers are known for having problems. Sorry to say the receiver is probably better used a paperweight

skizzums · February 10, 2015, 10:26 PM

I am sure you can get it fixed, I would want a professional to take a look at the chamber and see how bad the reaming is. if you can post a pic, someone could tell you if that part is safe to file on, I would be thinking polishing instead of filing first though.

**4V50 Gary** · February 10, 2015, 10:40 PM

Get a borescope and look down to the chamber. See if there's any burr that would cause that scratch. If so, then the chamber needs to be polished.

gunnut69 · February 11, 2015, 12:35 AM

He did note the shavings were in the receiver.. and located the offending burr...

Economist · February 11, 2015, 10:56 AM

Yes, it is not the chamber- it is the receiver that is causing the scratch. The cartridge rides over a sharp corner. What I want to know is if the corner is supposed to be sharp.
I will try to get a picture, but I doubt I can take a good one of the area.

**Unclenick** · February 11, 2015, 11:35 AM

A picture would help, but I doubt there's anything like that you could not at least round lightly and polish up. Wear is ultimately going to do that anyway. You also may want to check that your recoil spring is not overly stiff. I would avoid the "Extra Power" style as they slam the gun into battery harder and cause the upward push of the magazine follower on the cartridges to be stronger. Orion makes a superior one to proper spring constant spec. U.S. GI would be my second choice only because the Orion one should last pretty much indefinitely and costs less than new U.S. GI does on eBay.

98 220 swift · February 11, 2015, 11:36 AM

I have one of the cai Garands and have never had a problem with it. I have had it almost 15 years and probably 1000 rnds through it. I have heard of some being out of spec though. I would think you should try to grind of file the bur down. The worst thing you can do is destroy a no good receiver. A lot of Garand gunsmiths wont touch the CAI receivers.

Economist · February 11, 2015, 11:43 AM

I ordered a new op rod spring from Garand Gear, should be here tomorrow. I really want to make this gun work, I really enjoy shooting it.
Thanks for alerting me to the existence of Orion 7, that looks like a great place to get parts.

skizzums · February 11, 2015, 11:56 AM

it wouldn't hurt to polish the area your talking about. I would start with a very high grit sanding wheel on a dremel if you can fit into the area you are talking about. filing likely wouldn't hurt it either as long as your not changing any major dimensions. let us know how it works out. usuallu if your not a complete dummy, you can figure out what is causing a problem and rectify it without hurting the firearm, I am sure you'll be fine.

**Unclenick** · February 11, 2015, 12:25 PM

They are more fun than a gun barrel of monkeys. I think it was at lunch with my dad and Roy Baumgardner at Underwood's in Port Clinton one day, that Roy commented the Garand sounds like a whole machine shop starting up when you fire it. That was before he wrote the book at the end of the link. Dad knew Roy because they had been bunked together by the housing office at Perry a previous year. Pure coincidence. The book's a good read.

I hope you get your rifle going. If the problem persists, see if you can get us a close-up photo of the trouble spot. I have several Garand receivers I can compare it to, plus the blueprints to look at.

If you don't have the ability to get a clear picture (phone cameras often don't get clear enough), let me know and I will photograph the right side of a frame and put it into a PDF file for you and attach it to a post. In the free Acrobat Reader, you can then click on the Comment tab and select Drawing Markups under it, and click on the hollow arrow (its background darkens to show it is selected), then click on the trouble spot in the image and drag the shaft of the arrow out and release the mouse button to plant it. Then go to the upper left of the menu and click on File: Save As and save it under a new name and attach it to a post using the Manage Attachments feature.

While you wait for the spring, pop over to your local car parts or big box store and pick up a bottle of Mobil1 0W20 oil. Set the op-rod on its piston in a corner and fill it with the oil. Let it sit overnight, and then invert it over a container and let it sit upside down to drip out for an hour. Pour the oil into a container (you can use it again later for this same purpose unless it turns out you have rust in it) and put a nylon brush for a 40 cal pistol or for a 410 shotgun (the tube ID spec is 0.401"-0.407") on on your cleaning rod and run it in and out of the op-rod tube to help loosen any fouling. Rinse with fresh oil if you want to and invert it for another hour. Then run a dry 410 shotgun bore mop in and out to pick up any remaining grunge. Mobil 1 has some very good carbon softening additives. This should get carbon fouling out and will leave a lubricating film in the Parkerizing that helps keep operation smooth. You just don't want an excess of it.

I understand from Hummer70 that the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit is using Mobil 1 as their main cleaner and lubricant, so it's very compatible.

Economist · February 12, 2015, 11:05 AM

The sharp edge is indicated by the tip of the bullet below.

Economist · February 12, 2015, 11:06 AM

Another view.

Snyper · February 12, 2015, 12:06 PM

I'm betting a few strokes with a fine file or a coarse stone will break that edge and solve the problem

Bart B. · February 12, 2015, 12:09 PM

Some clips have horribly sharp and/or ragged edges on their lips' inside edge (both sides) that gouges cases as they're pushed out by the bolt. Get some emery paper and smooth them up.

Orlando · February 12, 2015, 04:32 PM

The round should not be making contact there.

Economist · February 12, 2015, 04:46 PM

Orlando, in my rifle all the rounds from the right side of the clip ride over that ledge on the way into the chamber. The first two ride hard enough to scratch. Are you saying that that ledge should be significantly lower than it currently is? I don't have the rifle in front of me but I recall the ledge being approximately the height of the follower when the follower is at the top of its stroke.
Like I said, I don't have a non CAI receiver to compare to, so if anyone else has one they can take a look at I would be grateful.

Orlando · February 12, 2015, 04:58 PM

I dont se how it could be the height but more than likely its protruding to far out widthwise and making contact with the rounds. I cant tell anything from the picture to tell waht the issue is. Would have to have it in hand to tell. I suppose its scracthing the shoulder/ neck area of the brass?
Again the CAI recivers are known for issues. Persoannly I would buy a USGI receiver and install it

98 220 swift · February 12, 2015, 05:18 PM

I will try to take some pics of my cai receiver tonight.

98 220 swift · February 12, 2015, 07:06 PM

Here is a pic of my cai garand. It appears that mine is rubbing as well. There is brass on the receiver in the same place as yours. This is a surprise to me since I have owned this rifle almost 15 years. I ran a loaded clip through it and it does scratch the brass some but not enough to hurt anything. I will be comparing it to my usgi garand and will probably be taking off a little.

98 220 swift · February 12, 2015, 07:07 PM

Another pic

skizzums · February 12, 2015, 08:59 PM

just try smoothing that sharp edge down and maybe bring the size down just a hair. give it soft edges and polish vigorously , then go from there. don't take off much material to start, cause then you might be getting misfeeds, just tone it down a little

98 220 swift · February 12, 2015, 09:29 PM

After looking at my cai and usgi Springfield side by side the cai has just a slightly larger hump. Very little extra material. I took a file to mine and brought it down with just a few strokes. Mine was just barely scratching the brass though.

Economist · February 12, 2015, 11:01 PM

Great, thanks for the help. I filed down the edge and it is easier on the brass, but it is still reluctant to feed those first few cartridges. Hopefully this will smooth out over time.

skizzums · February 13, 2015, 05:29 AM

Sanding with a high grit sandpaper will quicken the "smoothing" out process. Preferably wet sanding with oil

February 10, 2015, 12:59 PM	#1
Economist Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2014 Posts: 163	M1 Garand scratches brass - feed problems I have an M1 that is giving me problems. It is a CAI receiver that appears to have been unfired when I bought it. The bolt is very hesitant to feed the first few cartridges in any clip. I made up a few dummy rounds to see what the problem was, and when I inspected the brass after working a few through the action, I saw that the receiver is leaving long scratches in the sides of the first two cartridges that feed from the right side of the clip. The scratches are deep enough to catch a fingernail in, and there are small brass shavings in the receiver. I inspected the receiver on the right side, and it appears that the cartridges are getting scraped along a sharp corner on the receiver in front of the en block clip. I don't have a real Garand receiver for reference, so I need to know if it is safe to file down the sharp corner. This isn't the first time I have had to take a file to this receiver, I also had problems with the bolt catching on the lip on the top back part of the receiver.

February 10, 2015, 10:26 PM	#3
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	I am sure you can get it fixed, I would want a professional to take a look at the chamber and see how bad the reaming is. if you can post a pic, someone could tell you if that part is safe to file on, I would be thinking polishing instead of filing first though. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

February 10, 2015, 10:40 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Get a borescope and look down to the chamber. See if there's any burr that would cause that scratch. If so, then the chamber needs to be polished. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 11, 2015, 11:35 AM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	A picture would help, but I doubt there's anything like that you could not at least round lightly and polish up. Wear is ultimately going to do that anyway. You also may want to check that your recoil spring is not overly stiff. I would avoid the "Extra Power" style as they slam the gun into battery harder and cause the upward push of the magazine follower on the cartridges to be stronger. Orion makes a superior one to proper spring constant spec. U.S. GI would be my second choice only because the Orion one should last pretty much indefinitely and costs less than new U.S. GI does on eBay. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 11, 2015, 11:56 AM	#10
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	it wouldn't hurt to polish the area your talking about. I would start with a very high grit sanding wheel on a dremel if you can fit into the area you are talking about. filing likely wouldn't hurt it either as long as your not changing any major dimensions. let us know how it works out. usuallu if your not a complete dummy, you can figure out what is causing a problem and rectify it without hurting the firearm, I am sure you'll be fine. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

February 10, 2015, 07:10 PM	#2
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2009 Posts: 352	CAI receivers are known for having problems. Sorry to say the receiver is probably better used a paperweight

February 11, 2015, 12:35 AM	#5
gunnut69 Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Posts: 40	He did note the shavings were in the receiver.. and located the offending burr...

February 11, 2015, 10:56 AM	#6
Economist Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2014 Posts: 163	Yes, it is not the chamber- it is the receiver that is causing the scratch. The cartridge rides over a sharp corner. What I want to know is if the corner is supposed to be sharp. I will try to get a picture, but I doubt I can take a good one of the area.

February 11, 2015, 11:36 AM	#8
98 220 swift Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2015 Location: Perryville MO Posts: 426	I have one of the cai Garands and have never had a problem with it. I have had it almost 15 years and probably 1000 rnds through it. I have heard of some being out of spec though. I would think you should try to grind of file the bur down. The worst thing you can do is destroy a no good receiver. A lot of Garand gunsmiths wont touch the CAI receivers.

February 11, 2015, 11:43 AM	#9
Economist Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2014 Posts: 163	I ordered a new op rod spring from Garand Gear, should be here tomorrow. I really want to make this gun work, I really enjoy shooting it. Thanks for alerting me to the existence of Orion 7, that looks like a great place to get parts.

February 11, 2015, 12:25 PM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	They are more fun than a gun barrel of monkeys. I think it was at lunch with my dad and Roy Baumgardner at Underwood's in Port Clinton one day, that Roy commented the Garand sounds like a whole machine shop starting up when you fire it. That was before he wrote the book at the end of the link. Dad knew Roy because they had been bunked together by the housing office at Perry a previous year. Pure coincidence. The book's a good read. I hope you get your rifle going. If the problem persists, see if you can get us a close-up photo of the trouble spot. I have several Garand receivers I can compare it to, plus the blueprints to look at. If you don't have the ability to get a clear picture (phone cameras often don't get clear enough), let me know and I will photograph the right side of a frame and put it into a PDF file for you and attach it to a post. In the free Acrobat Reader, you can then click on the Comment tab and select Drawing Markups under it, and click on the hollow arrow (its background darkens to show it is selected), then click on the trouble spot in the image and drag the shaft of the arrow out and release the mouse button to plant it. Then go to the upper left of the menu and click on File: Save As and save it under a new name and attach it to a post using the Manage Attachments feature. While you wait for the spring, pop over to your local car parts or big box store and pick up a bottle of Mobil1 0W20 oil. Set the op-rod on its piston in a corner and fill it with the oil. Let it sit overnight, and then invert it over a container and let it sit upside down to drip out for an hour. Pour the oil into a container (you can use it again later for this same purpose unless it turns out you have rust in it) and put a nylon brush for a 40 cal pistol or for a 410 shotgun (the tube ID spec is 0.401"-0.407") on on your cleaning rod and run it in and out of the op-rod tube to help loosen any fouling. Rinse with fresh oil if you want to and invert it for another hour. Then run a dry 410 shotgun bore mop in and out to pick up any remaining grunge. Mobil 1 has some very good carbon softening additives. This should get carbon fouling out and will leave a lubricating film in the Parkerizing that helps keep operation smooth. You just don't want an excess of it. I understand from Hummer70 that the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit is using Mobil 1 as their main cleaner and lubricant, so it's very compatible. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 12, 2015, 11:05 AM	#12
Economist Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2014 Posts: 163	The sharp edge is indicated by the tip of the bullet below. Last edited by Economist; February 15, 2015 at 10:24 AM.

February 12, 2015, 11:06 AM	#13
Economist Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2014 Posts: 163	Another view. Last edited by Economist; February 15, 2015 at 10:27 AM.

February 12, 2015, 12:06 PM	#14
Snyper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 3,047	I'm betting a few strokes with a fine file or a coarse stone will break that edge and solve the problem __________________ One shot, one kill

February 12, 2015, 12:09 PM	#15
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Some clips have horribly sharp and/or ragged edges on their lips' inside edge (both sides) that gouges cases as they're pushed out by the bolt. Get some emery paper and smooth them up.

February 12, 2015, 04:32 PM	#16
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2009 Posts: 352	The round should not be making contact there.

February 12, 2015, 04:46 PM	#17
Economist Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2014 Posts: 163	Orlando, in my rifle all the rounds from the right side of the clip ride over that ledge on the way into the chamber. The first two ride hard enough to scratch. Are you saying that that ledge should be significantly lower than it currently is? I don't have the rifle in front of me but I recall the ledge being approximately the height of the follower when the follower is at the top of its stroke. Like I said, I don't have a non CAI receiver to compare to, so if anyone else has one they can take a look at I would be grateful.

February 12, 2015, 04:58 PM	#18
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2009 Posts: 352	I dont se how it could be the height but more than likely its protruding to far out widthwise and making contact with the rounds. I cant tell anything from the picture to tell waht the issue is. Would have to have it in hand to tell. I suppose its scracthing the shoulder/ neck area of the brass? Again the CAI recivers are known for issues. Persoannly I would buy a USGI receiver and install it

February 12, 2015, 05:18 PM	#19
98 220 swift Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2015 Location: Perryville MO Posts: 426	I will try to take some pics of my cai receiver tonight.

February 12, 2015, 07:06 PM	#20
98 220 swift Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2015 Location: Perryville MO Posts: 426	Here is a pic of my cai garand. It appears that mine is rubbing as well. There is brass on the receiver in the same place as yours. This is a surprise to me since I have owned this rifle almost 15 years. I ran a loaded clip through it and it does scratch the brass some but not enough to hurt anything. I will be comparing it to my usgi garand and will probably be taking off a little.

February 12, 2015, 07:07 PM	#21
98 220 swift Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2015 Location: Perryville MO Posts: 426	Another pic

February 12, 2015, 08:59 PM	#22
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	just try smoothing that sharp edge down and maybe bring the size down just a hair. give it soft edges and polish vigorously , then go from there. don't take off much material to start, cause then you might be getting misfeeds, just tone it down a little __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

February 12, 2015, 09:29 PM	#23
98 220 swift Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2015 Location: Perryville MO Posts: 426	After looking at my cai and usgi Springfield side by side the cai has just a slightly larger hump. Very little extra material. I took a file to mine and brought it down with just a few strokes. Mine was just barely scratching the brass though.

February 12, 2015, 11:01 PM	#24
Economist Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2014 Posts: 163	Great, thanks for the help. I filed down the edge and it is easier on the brass, but it is still reluctant to feed those first few cartridges. Hopefully this will smooth out over time.

February 13, 2015, 05:29 AM	#25
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	Sanding with a high grit sandpaper will quicken the "smoothing" out process. Preferably wet sanding with oil __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed