The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 14, 2018, 05:07 PM   #1
westernrover
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2018
Posts: 3
Long range plinking rifle? 6.5?

I put a scope on the .22LR semi-auto and been enjoying hitting coin-size targets at 100 yards. I've been thinking about what get for a centerfire rifle. I could just get a .223 like everyone else, or I could step up to something that will carry to 800 or 1000 yards. I have a range a short drive from the house where I could shoot that far safely.

The last time I went to the city, I looked at Tikka, Ruger, CZ, Winchester, Savage and Remington. I read a lot of good things about the Tikka, but it felt cheap. I handled a Model 700 CDL SF in 6.5C. Didn't seem bad at all, without shooting it.

I haven't shot 6.5 Creedmore. There's another .264 sitting in the safe. A Win. Mag. It think it uses the same bullets as the 6.5C, but there are some differences besides the powder capacity and velocity. I was reading this article, https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/c...ise-from-dead/ that suggests the .264 has everything the Creedmore has with a lot more velocity.

But there are some other differences. The magnum rifles usually have a 1/9 twist. The Model 700 I was looking at, 1/8 twist. But I believe some precision rifles are 1/7.5 or faster and can shoot the 150 grain Match Kings.

The Creedmore has a short case, which also leaves a lot more room for ogive in a given action length. I'm not sure if this actually results in bullets with a higher BC working for 6.5C that won't work for .264WM.

Putting the .264 into action is not a cheap proposition. It needs an optic, the brass is expensive, and I'd need a press and dies or to buy very costly factory ammo. It has a more limited barrel life than milder 6.5's, and it also has heavy recoil, which makes it impractical to share with some of the people I go plinking with. I think it's an ideal antelope rifle, but I just want to bust soda cans at 1000 yards.

I'm not looking to do a competition precision rifle build. I'm pretty sure a Tikka off the shelf would do what I want. I liked the CDL SF better, but not sure it will deliver more than better looks.

Is the 6.5C the best choice for my purpose? Is a quarter bore better? 6mm?
westernrover is offline  
Old June 14, 2018, 05:44 PM   #2
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: Cyber-Somewhere...
Posts: 3,102
There are quite a few solid choices in the 6.5 - 7mm / .243 - .264 caliber range.
I have a 6.5 Creedmoor, it's solid out to 1350 yards, the furtherest I've tried shooting it so far. But I've also seen a guy hit a mile 24" plate with a 6.5 CM on the first shot.

Lots of opinions, lots of fun.
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابياً
TXAZ is offline  
Old June 14, 2018, 05:55 PM   #3
Dufus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,206
Winchester brought out the 264 Win Mag for long range mountain rifle.

If you used it for target practice, I would imagine the barrel would be shot out in less than 1000 rounds.

That was one reason that Hornady developed the 6.5 Creedmore. LOT longer barrel life since it ain't pushing as much powder down the tube.
Dufus is offline  
Old June 14, 2018, 07:43 PM   #4
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 2,573
A friend of mine has a Savage LRP in 6.5 CM low recoil , if you want a Long Range Precision rifle check it out.
cw308 is offline  
Old June 14, 2018, 07:49 PM   #5
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,673
I vote against the Remington for two reasons. I think they were corporally totally irresponsible with the trigger issues, and it has a crappy trigger to boot that takes about $100 to correct.

What I like about the Savage is one you shoot the barrel out (2500 some rounds) then you can buy another one for $350, take the old one off, put a new on o yourself (fist time shot in tools is around $150 max) and after that its free (or half each time)

Of have a gun smith do it at low very low cost.

Savage Acu Trigger is good, the factory barrels are usually quite good.

6.5 is low recoil so you can shoot as much as you want.

You still need good glass but that goes for all rifles and long range.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old June 15, 2018, 02:55 AM   #6
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Broward County, Florida
Posts: 2,843
There are lots of factory 6.5 Creedmoor rifles out there that are good for what you want. Savage is a popular suggestion. I can't get my Savage Model 10 to group better than 2" or so but I haven't had time lately to mess with it and experiment with a couple different things (muzzle brake, thorough bore cleaning, scope etc.) to decide if the rifle is at fault or not.

One to look into is the Bergara B-14 HMR. It is supposed to be a very solid rifle for the reasonable price. I haven't shot one but I shot a PRS match with a guy who was using a stock one and he shot very competitively with the high end multiple thousand dollar rifles. It actually would have been my first choice if they made one in left hand.

6.5 Creedmoor is a very solid cartridge and very popular. Hard to see any reason to go against it, other than maybe a relatively short barrel life (common to nearly all 6.5 and smaller calibers). I don't reload and for a plinking rifle it's great to be able to get good accuracy from factory ammunition. Federal just releleased a Gold Medal Match round in 6mm Creedmoor. Some competitors like it because it shoots very flat within a certain distance, but I believe it is probably another barrel burning round.

There are a number of other rounds that can do what the 6.5 does but for the wide range of factory offerings in both rifles and ammo I can't really see any reason to recommend something else unless you really want to do something specific.
__________________
Please consider taking a look at my website Potts Precision.
Recent interesting articles include:
Why a .22LR is an Important Tool
And A Very Cool Model 70 .35 Whelen
dakota.potts is offline  
Old June 15, 2018, 04:11 AM   #7
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Pennsyltucky...
Posts: 1,508
The 6.5mm, or 6mm would do you better for long distance than the 25 caliber. While i have two rifles in 25 caliber( 250 Savage, 257 Roberts) for long distance shooting the bullet selection just isn't as great. Usually they have a lower BC also.

Not saying the 257 Roberts won't shoot long distance, just that the other 2 are better choices.

Another option would be the 7mm-08. Still fairly light on recoil, large selection of decent BC bullets.
__________________
I am in earnest- I will not equivocate- I will not excuse-
I will not retreat a single inch- AND I WILL BE HEARD!
William Lloyd Garrison - The Liberator 1831
std7mag is online now  
Old June 15, 2018, 05:09 AM   #8
jetinteriorguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2013
Posts: 773
I just started to enter the world of long range shooting about a year ago. I've been shooting for over 50 years and hand loading for over 30 but avoided the long range scene because of my obsessive nature. I figured once I started in this I'd never have a dime to my name. A little over a year ago Cabelas had the Savage 12FV on sale so after the rebate it was around $220.00 so I figured what the heck. After a new stock, an SWFA scope, and some load development I'm averaging 1/2-5/8" groups with a very occasional 1/4" group. So, I'm managing to have a lot of fun and on a manageable budget. And oh, it's a 6.5 Creedmoor. And I'm also developing a 600 yard AR in .223 Wylde that's just an absolute blast and very economical to shoot. All in I'm still under $1500.00 with pretty good quality stuff that does the job.
jetinteriorguy is offline  
Old June 15, 2018, 08:49 AM   #9
LineStretcher
Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2018
Posts: 19
When we speak to long range rifles, there's really two categories. Long range precision shooting and long range hunting. I shoot a 6.5 Grendel on an AR semi-auto platform because it's a relatively good shooter out to 500 yards and is light enough to flat ranch hunt pigs with.

My precision rifle is a .223 Wylde on an AR semi-auto platform and I have a lot of $ invested in it. I only shoot it off the bench at the range and it's a ton of fun but anything beyond 600 yards requires a lot of work and a lot of luck.

My long range hunting rifles are a Browning X-bolt Hells Canyon Speed in .300 WSM and a McMillan G30 Dynasty in .270 WSM. I like to think I'm proficient with those out to 400 yards which still leaves them with enough energy for an ethical kill on large game.

In my honest opinion, I would steer clear of the Remington's. It's obvious by their financial status that the rifle has not lived up to it's expectations. One of the dealers I buy through steered me clear of the CDL stating that he thought I wanted a good rifle and it would be hit an miss with the 700 CDL.


The Beretta/Sako/Tika's are an excellent rifle that use a composite stock which I'm not fond of but they do shoot extremely well. However, myself and many others believe that the Browning X-Bolts are the best out of the box production rifles available today. There are several versions and they're all good. If you want a wood stock, you can get that too. McMillan is just starting to build out their famous fiberglass stocks for the x-bolts and in fact, next year, Browning will be offering a model with the McMillan stock. Their website shows them now but they won't actually go into production until October with dealer delivery in December from what I've been told.

So with all that said, if I were going to buy a bolt gun for long range shooting it would be a 6.5 Creedmore but if I was buying one for hunting it would probably be a Weatherby Mark V in 6.5-300.

Let's not forget about the up and coming .224 Valkrie. It really needs a 1/7.5 twist to maximize performance and I'm not seeing them in the more affordable production bolt guns yet but the barrels are available for AR-15 platform guns which is not a bad choice if you know how to build one for precision shooting. I haven't ordered a barrel yet but will probably do so in the near future.

Good luck with your endeavor, I hope I didn't confuse the issue for you.
LineStretcher is offline  
Old June 15, 2018, 09:03 AM   #10
Bfglowkey
Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2018
Posts: 15
I made the plunge w/ 6.5 Creedmoor to Target shoot and it has been a joy. My first was a Rueger Precision...and I have 4 different loads developed that just makee smile every time I shoot. I also grabbed a Savage FV 12 from Cabela's in both 308 and 6.5( my father kept hogging my bench time so I decided to put together a 6.5 bench gun for him) and it too is very very nice once the stock was replaced. The longer barrel let's us push higher velocities then my RPR and he successfully hit his first 1000 yard milk jug last week within 3 shots. If you want even less recoil the 6mm Creedmoor is not a bad choice....and is my next project once I get done tweaking the 308
Bfglowkey is offline  
Old June 15, 2018, 08:05 PM   #11
handlerer2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 26, 2010
Location: Yellowstone Co, MT
Posts: 436
On an impulse, on Valentines Day, I called my wife while browsing the Scheels in Billings. I saw this rifle, Cooper MDl 22 6.5x284, 26", this model is called the Montana Varmint rifle. It was marked down, my wife said Happy V day buy it. Being a dutiful old man, I obeyed. This was in 012.

This is the plinker of my dreams! An extremely accurate varmint rifle that will kill a moose.

I won't go into the details, but this is a reloaders proposition only. I have been reloading since '75 and reloading for centerfire magnum since '76.

I called the fellow in Stevensville that had fired the test target. We had a nice chat. He gave me advice on loads, and coals, with different bullets.

At the first day at the range, it took 4 rounds to zero to my satisfaction, the next three were under .3" I had found a cool plinker.

I had been reloading and shooting 300WBy, 340Wby, 223, 44mag. Compared to the WBy's, the 6.5 is a honeymoon. I have given the WBY rifles to my son. I don't hunt now, only plink.

I was on the Ms coast and told I could shoot all the turtles I could around my cousins dam. Not a sport at all, but they were eating baby ducks and geese that my cousins wife was trying to raise. They were the size of a platter and there were dozens of them. 22's were not effective. What a gory hoot.

Barrel life is a factor in most 6.5's. Creedmore included. I come to find out that this is not really a factor for me. I have found out recently that Cooper has instituted a barrel replacement policy. You shoot out a barrel and for $125, they will rebarrel and certify with a test target. I have nearly 500 rds through this rifle, so I expect to use this policy eventually. How cool is that?
handlerer2 is offline  
Old June 15, 2018, 09:34 PM   #12
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 8,972
The 6.5 CM is your huckleberry. The rifle is the decision. All 6.5CM rifles that I'm aware of will have 8 twists and shoot 140-147 gr bullets just fine. A 147 gr Hornady ELD-M loaded at 2700 fps is above 1000 fps out to right at 2000 yards. It is a legitimate 1 mile target round and a 500-600 hunting round for most big game.

The fast 6.5's shoot a little flatter, but don't add nearly as much past 1000 yards as they do at the muzzle. And with modern optics and range finders flat trajectory simply isn't important.

I bought the Ruger Predator for $389 OTD to get into 6.5 cheap. They've gone up some, but I still see them at $395 shipped + whatever it costs for a transfer where you live.

It isn't a heirloom rifle, but shoots just fine. I wouldn't spend the extra for most of the others. If the Ruger wasn't nice enough I'd skip straight to this. Nothing in between is significantly better in a factory rifle.

http://www.tikka.fi/en-us/rifles/tik...tactical-rifle

I have one of these in 308. Street prices are around $900.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong"

Winston Churchill
jmr40 is offline  
Old June 15, 2018, 11:06 PM   #13
hseII
Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2015
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by westernrover View Post
I put a scope on the .22LR semi-auto and been enjoying hitting coin-size targets at 100 yards. I've been thinking about what get for a centerfire rifle. I could just get a .223 like everyone else, or I could step up to something that will carry to 800 or 1000 yards. I have a range a short drive from the house where I could shoot that far safely.



The last time I went to the city, I looked at Tikka, Ruger, CZ, Winchester, Savage and Remington. I read a lot of good things about the Tikka, but it felt cheap. I handled a Model 700 CDL SF in 6.5C. Didn't seem bad at all, without shooting it.



I haven't shot 6.5 Creedmore. There's another .264 sitting in the safe. A Win. Mag. It think it uses the same bullets as the 6.5C, but there are some differences besides the powder capacity and velocity. I was reading this article, https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/c...ise-from-dead/ that suggests the .264 has everything the Creedmore has with a lot more velocity.



But there are some other differences. The magnum rifles usually have a 1/9 twist. The Model 700 I was looking at, 1/8 twist. But I believe some precision rifles are 1/7.5 or faster and can shoot the 150 grain Match Kings.



The Creedmore has a short case, which also leaves a lot more room for ogive in a given action length. I'm not sure if this actually results in bullets with a higher BC working for 6.5C that won't work for .264WM.



Putting the .264 into action is not a cheap proposition. It needs an optic, the brass is expensive, and I'd need a press and dies or to buy very costly factory ammo. It has a more limited barrel life than milder 6.5's, and it also has heavy recoil, which makes it impractical to share with some of the people I go plinking with. I think it's an ideal antelope rifle, but I just want to bust soda cans at 1000 yards.



I'm not looking to do a competition precision rifle build. I'm pretty sure a Tikka off the shelf would do what I want. I liked the CDL SF better, but not sure it will deliver more than better looks.



Is the 6.5C the best choice for my purpose? Is a quarter bore better? 6mm?


Tikka has a middle weigh/ heavier barreled model that’s what you are looking for.

The Remington 700 you looked at, was it threaded?

If so, either of those would be my pick.

1 in 7.5 or 8 is where you want to be with a 6.5.

The 6.5 Creed/ .260 Remington is everything you mentioned a .264 not being, & for good reasons.

Mine is in .260 form, but they are twins.

You could go .308, but the Hornady support for the 6.5 Creed has made it more economical to shoot target off-the-shelf ammo.

You’ll eventually be reloading for the 6.5 if you stay in the game long enough...
hseII is offline  
Old June 16, 2018, 01:47 PM   #14
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 2,573
Keep in mind barrel life , keep a round count . 6.5 CM l hear are around 2500 . Even though it's a very nice round . Make every round count don't let it get to hot , thermal strip on the barrel will help .
cw308 is offline  
Old June 18, 2018, 01:04 AM   #15
KY_blkout
Member
 
Join Date: June 10, 2018
Posts: 18
Unless you are an elite long range shooter the 6.5 creed even in most factory setups will be more accurate than you are out to 600-700 yards with decent glass.
KY_blkout is offline  
Old June 18, 2018, 01:48 PM   #16
Hunter Customs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2005
Location: Osborn, Missouri
Posts: 2,697
If I was to purchase a new long range rifle it would most likely be a Savage in 6 CM. From what I've been reading the 6 CM is winning everything where they're legal to use. However if you're dead set on a 6.5 it should do you well. I would still take a good hard look at Savage, they have a couple of new offerings out this year.
Hunter Customs is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.06839 seconds with 9 queries