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Old June 16, 2018, 05:22 AM   #26
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In a manufacturing context, even simple little things like these levers (not just on the .357s) takes somebody to see the problem, determine a solution to the problem, persuade upper management that it IS a problem, get approval to run with the solution, get upper management to fund the solution, buy the equipment to address the problem, pull an engineer away from something else he's working on to develop a modified process with the new equipment, get the new equipment installed & functional, and get the appropriate people trained on the new equipment & process.
Big problem here. This is the difference between company owned or operated by shooters & gun people such as the Bill Ruger days and what to call it ? A Remington type company. Any successful business has to be both smart and nimble.

I don't know how the old plant did it, that's irrelevant, since it WAS the old plant
This is kind of a problem too. Some things are done a certain way after 100 years of trail and error little detail learned. And those details are never going to be relearned based on the first quote. I am not talking rounded edges, I mean a new gun should feed ammo.

This quality problem is way beyond a Marlin problem, what are the reasons for poor quality 870 shotguns? The fix does not have to be slow. It need not and should not take years. "Smart and nimble" ? Years is an eternity these days.

As far as shotguns and bolt action rifles Remington is dead in my book. Now the Marlin line, we will see if I ever try one again. Today, my personal stand is that I purchase absolutely nothing from Remington not even ammo, gun wipes, remoil, nothing.
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Old June 16, 2018, 12:28 PM   #27
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Yes, the fix does have to be slow, for the reasons mentioned.

The process requires a changing corporate attitude (including Remington) at the top, which is happening, and money, which has been problematical.

Remember the bankruptcy.
Remember the Cerberus "Make it cheaper" operating model.

Back when H&R was going under, an interesting comment was "We've taken as much cost out of the guns as we can." Meaning production costs, in the context of the single-shot line no longer being profitable in competition with cheap bolts like the Ruger American & the Savage series.

I remember at the time thinking "You've also taken as much value out of the guns as you can."

It does take time, not just for Marlin. You have to understand that as an umbrella operation, it's like a family.
One kid needs this, one kid needs that, another kid needs something else.
Decisions have to be made on priorities, just like you do at home.

Can we put off Johnny's dental work for a couple more months to buy a winter coat for Suzie?
That kind of situation.

Resources have to be allocated between "kids" (companies).
That includes notably engineers and money.

And there's a certain amount of organic transitional delay in overcoming previous ingrained thought patterns.

In that trickle-down effect, when you've been told for years that your priority is "make it cheaper" (which I emphasize again, because it truly was the business model), when word now comes down to "do it this way instead of the old way", the natural conditioned response is "But- that'll cost more!"
Getting over that resistance at multiple levels will not happen overnight.

Company-wide, there's some re-thinking needed at all levels.

That's meeting some resistance by those who don't understand how low Marlin's & Remington's reps have sunk, don't understand the importance of quality, don't see beyond their office door & a paycheck, and are used to just "Get 'em out cheap!" from above.

All this is complicated by the bankruptcy.
But- it is changing.
Believe or not, buy Henry or not, the world will go on either way.
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Old June 16, 2018, 12:48 PM   #28
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I bought the Henry...….…..between the two Marlins. All three are built in 2016.

I originally went to the dealer, to look at Henrys. Just happened to grab a Marlin 1895 CBA 45/70 with an octagon barrel off the shelf, because it looked good. It actually looked far better, than any newer Marlin I had read about, seen videos, as well as pics.

Mostly what I had read, was on the negative side. Yet this Marlin had near perfect fits between the metal tangs, and the wood. It was obvious, that someone had figured out, how to get the CNC machines to co-operate.

The ends of the forearm, though not as rounded as earlier GM models, didn't have tooling or sanding marks. The stocks finish, was a bit lackluster, though.

I put a deposit on it, and went back a second time, to look at the bore with lighting, and some additional inspection. It still looked good. The front sight was where it needed to be.

Best of all, it had the side loading gate, something the Henry misses. This time, I took it home. Pulled the insides of the receiver out, and found the milling to be good. After all, I had once worked in a large machine shop. I'm not new to this.

This is a year ago. In the meantime, this Remington built Marlin has functioned without a single failure. Many brands and loads of factory and reloads. It's accurate, and some simple additional "tung" oil product (actually a linseed product) brought out a beautiful wood finish, with little effort.

After that, I picked up the Henry 45/70. The brass version, because it's kind of purdy, in my mind. Since the Marlin worked out far better, than I had hoped, I added the 336SS -30-30 model, later in the summer. Liked the looks of it, too. It's only fault, was sharp edges on the stainless lever, while the 45/70's blued lever, was just fine. All three, including the Henry, have been nice rifles.

edit: bottom line. Neither of my Marlins were the cheaper ones. Marlin employees actually performed a good job, on the two I bought. I wouldn't have bothered, otherwise. I can't say how the product line is, quality wise, when it comes to the cheaper models.

Last edited by CLYA; June 16, 2018 at 12:53 PM.
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Old June 16, 2018, 10:45 PM   #29
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Denis, thanks for the additional information. I do wish that people could grasp that in the corporate world as well as the world of government there are two constraints, qualified people to perform tasks and the money to fund it. Neither is infinite. On the other hand some people hope that Remington/Marlin bounces back and succeeds while it seems that others want them to fail. I do understand those who have been burned by the downgrading of quality by the bean counters and are skeptical of commitment by Remington/Marlin.
All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
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Old June 17, 2018, 07:41 PM   #30
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I have several Marlins, newest 1970, oldest 1890s. I'm not a Marlin collector
so I'm not interested in new ones at all. I was in business for 20 yrs, went out
in 92. In 80s you could see quality drop in Marlin, Savage and Remington. The
Rugers at that time were still at high standards. Winchester was out of the running. The problems were many but the bean counters calling the shots made
some stupid decisions on marketing side.Savage was pulled out by concentrating
on 110 series BA rifles a good move for them. For everyone else it seemed like
a race to the bottom. Ruger with #1 selling 10/22, screwed them up with plastic
parts. Remington quality on 870s dropped them down and lost the market to
Mossberg 500, dropped 1100 for 1187. Why they mess with their bread and
butter lines amazes me. The latest Bean Counter marketing decision is Colts.
They are making a A2 version of AR to sell to big RVn Vetrans market. The kicker
is the price tag. 3 times what a base model costs. They killed their market before
they started. Much of the trouble in gun industry is non gun people making
product decisions that have no connection to the market. We all have a WISH
gun that we hope they will make again. You have to look at it in terms of how
many can be sold.
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Old June 18, 2018, 11:40 AM   #31
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Considering how many great-condition older Marlins are out there looking for good homes, I just can't get excited about anything Remington is making today.
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