Person to Person FFL Transfer

Kwik2010 · May 26, 2018, 10:12 PM

Howdy everyone, I have a question.

I am trying to sell a mossberg shockwave to a person who lives in the same state as me but hasn't obtained residency yet, though they do possess a MT driver's license. According to the interweb you have to live in Montana 12 months before becoming a resident. So I'm pretty sure I need to go through an FFL. I called the only one open this late today and they said they'd have to have the other person's FFL paperwork as well and that confused me. They won't have one since they live here. Or am I missing something?

**JohnKSa** · May 26, 2018, 10:24 PM

Quote:

According to the interweb you have to live in Montana 12 months before becoming a resident.

I'm not aware of a time requirement.

If the person is a resident of MT that satisfies the requirement regardless of how long they've been a resident.

If the buyer has an MT DL and the address on the DL is an MT address where the person actually lives then I think you're good to go.

Kwik2010 · May 26, 2018, 11:02 PM

Thanks for the info. It feels like a grey area and to be honest it's making me nervous. I would assume what you're saying is correct but I don't want to lose my rights nor end up in prison because I thought it was ok. I don't know what the feds consider a resident to be. If all it takes is a MT DL with a MT address then that'd be great. But I dunno how to find out.

Kwik2010 · May 26, 2018, 11:03 PM

The time requirement seems to change for each thing. For tutiton it's one year. To hunt or fish it's 6 months. I can't find anything pertaining to gun ownership.

Theohazard · May 26, 2018, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwik2010

I don't know what the feds consider a resident to be.

As far as federal law is concerned, residency for the purpose of transferring firearms is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 478.11 as “the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State."

In other words, if you're living in a state, then you're a resident of that state. There is no time requirement.

See ATF Ruling 2010-6.

Keep in mind that there are different state and federal definitions of residency depending on whether you're dealing with things like taxes, voting, drivers licensing, a military home of record, etc. But this is simply regarding the federal rules of residency as it specifically pertains to transferring firearms, because that's what governs the private firearm transfer rules in most states. Some states have more restrictive rules than the feds do regarding private transfers, but I doubt MT does. I also doubt they use a different definition of residency than the feds do when it comes to firearm transfers.

Kwik2010 · May 27, 2018, 12:14 AM

That clears up a lot thank you.

**Spats McGee** · May 28, 2018, 06:36 AM

Yes, timelines & definitions may seem fairly malleable, depending on the topic one is researching. I haven't dug into this issue, but a requirement that one live in MT for 12 months before becoming a resident seems like an awfully long time. . . . particularly in light of the fact that "[a] person who has resided in Montana for more than 60 consecutive days is considered to be a resident for the purpose of being licensed to operate a motor vehicle and must be licensed under the laws of Montana before operating a motor vehicle." Mont. Code Ann. § 61-5-103 (West). So for purposes of a DL, someone who has resided there for 60 days is considered a resident.

And for federal law purposes, JohnKSa & Theohazard right. There's no specific minimum time limit. That said, were I in your shoes, I'd be more than a little uneasy. A DL is a very quick, very easy proof of residency and you already know that your buyer doesn't have that.

Kwik2010 · May 28, 2018, 08:29 AM

I think you may have misread. He does have a MT Driver's License.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 28, 2018, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spats McGee

That said, were I in your shoes, I'd be more than a little uneasy. A DL is a very quick, very easy proof of residency and you already know that your buyer doesn't have that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwik2010

I am trying to sell a mossberg shockwave to a person who lives in the same state as me but hasn't obtained residency yet, though they do possess a MT driver's license.

Who said the prospective buyer hasn't "obtained" residency yet? Did the person tell you that, or is that something you came up with, based on ... what?

If federal law for purposes of firearms purposes makes residency as simple as living there, and the state of Montana says 60 days is enough residency to get a drivers license and the person has a Montana drivers license ... what's the basis for saying the person hasn't obtained residency?

The BATFE has established that, basically, where you sleep is where you live. Not to the point of hotel rooms, but a person who owns a vacation house in a second state is considered by the BATFE to be a resident of that second state while living in said vacation house. Yet the person would not qualify for a driver's license in the second state ... so possession of a drivers license is a less than perfect indicator, but would seem to me to be more than safe.

**Spats McGee** · May 28, 2018, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwik2010

I think you may have misread. He does have a MT Driver's License.

Yep. I totally misread that. I completely had them backwards.

Sorry.

Kwik2010 · May 28, 2018, 12:04 PM

Oh no need for apologies haha. Just making sure everyone was on the same page.

May 26, 2018, 10:12 PM	#1
Kwik2010 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2016 Location: Montana Posts: 184	Person to Person FFL Transfer Howdy everyone, I have a question. I am trying to sell a mossberg shockwave to a person who lives in the same state as me but hasn't obtained residency yet, though they do possess a MT driver's license. According to the interweb you have to live in Montana 12 months before becoming a resident. So I'm pretty sure I need to go through an FFL. I called the only one open this late today and they said they'd have to have the other person's FFL paperwork as well and that confused me. They won't have one since they live here. Or am I missing something? Last edited by Kwik2010; May 26, 2018 at 10:17 PM.

May 28, 2018, 06:36 AM	#7
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Yes, timelines & definitions may seem fairly malleable, depending on the topic one is researching. I haven't dug into this issue, but a requirement that one live in MT for 12 months before becoming a resident seems like an awfully long time. . . . particularly in light of the fact that "[a] person who has resided in Montana for more than 60 consecutive days is considered to be a resident for the purpose of being licensed to operate a motor vehicle and must be licensed under the laws of Montana before operating a motor vehicle." Mont. Code Ann. § 61-5-103 (West). So for purposes of a DL, someone who has resided there for 60 days is considered a resident. And for federal law purposes, JohnKSa & Theohazard right. There's no specific minimum time limit. That said, were I in your shoes, I'd be more than a little uneasy. A DL is a very quick, very easy proof of residency and you already know that your buyer doesn't have that. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

May 26, 2018, 11:02 PM	#3
Kwik2010 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2016 Location: Montana Posts: 184	Thanks for the info. It feels like a grey area and to be honest it's making me nervous. I would assume what you're saying is correct but I don't want to lose my rights nor end up in prison because I thought it was ok. I don't know what the feds consider a resident to be. If all it takes is a MT DL with a MT address then that'd be great. But I dunno how to find out.

May 26, 2018, 11:03 PM	#4
Kwik2010 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2016 Location: Montana Posts: 184	The time requirement seems to change for each thing. For tutiton it's one year. To hunt or fish it's 6 months. I can't find anything pertaining to gun ownership.

May 27, 2018, 12:14 AM	#6
Kwik2010 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2016 Location: Montana Posts: 184	That clears up a lot thank you.

May 28, 2018, 08:29 AM	#8
Kwik2010 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2016 Location: Montana Posts: 184	I think you may have misread. He does have a MT Driver's License.

May 28, 2018, 12:04 PM	#11
Kwik2010 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2016 Location: Montana Posts: 184	Oh no need for apologies haha. Just making sure everyone was on the same page.