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Old June 5, 2020, 03:29 AM   #26
shafter
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My rules of engagement would remain the same. Get away from any conflict, and if that became impossible, defend myself only when my own life was in immediate danger and there was literally no other choice. The rules don't change, just the surrounding situation.
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Old June 5, 2020, 10:02 AM   #27
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Quote:
Those who dont study history are doomed to repeat it.
This is one of those nonsensical statements that is meant to convey the notion that ignorance means you will suffer the same troubles/problems/etc. as those who went before you, implying that if you have knowledge of the past, that you would never have the same troubles experienced in the past. That seems like it would make sense and having knowledge of prior things can help you to not repeat the bad ones, but certainly there are no assurances that you won't. Take cigarette smokers today in the US. The all have knowledge from the past that cigarette smoking can cause all sorts of problems for their health, even causing premature death, yet they still smoke. Having knowledge is one thing. How you act on it is a whole other issue.

The other aspect of the statement is equally true, which is why it is so nonsensical. Many great and wonderful things have happened in the past. So by not having knowledge of them, when I also be doomed to enjoy them like those before me? When the logic is applied equally, the answer is YES.

So, contrary to the statement, ignorance of the past does not necessarily lead to some sort of damnation.
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Old June 5, 2020, 07:54 PM   #28
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I remember hearing this in the 60's and 70's. "The blacks are going to march on" this or that suburb. Usually an alternative for black was used.

I have lived in or near Cleveland, Portland, San Francisco, Seattle, and Tampa, when riots occurred.

On one occasion the riots happened 5 blocks from my home. In each case, with one exception, I wouldn't have known there was something going on if I hadn't watched the news.

If you don't want to get involved in a riot, stay home.
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Old June 5, 2020, 08:01 PM   #29
zoo
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Used to be you could climb onto your roof or elsewhere and watch such entertainment. Now days they'll they'll shoot you with pepper ball rounds if you even dare to simply sit out on your front porch to watch the festivities.
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Old June 8, 2020, 04:15 PM   #30
Armorer 101
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You might want to look up your state statutes regards trespass.

Call your insurance agent and ask; Does my residence policy contain the exclusion; Riot and Riot Attending Strike?

If you own a business do not forget the business property policy, same question.

Be careful of what you say on a forum because any statement you make, can come back to bite you later, if you get into a litigious situation. Attorneys employ PIs in the Discovery part of a trial preparation, PIs employ programs to search the internet for your IDs and your posts.
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Old June 8, 2020, 04:22 PM   #31
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Saw yesterday that some Antifa were going to go the the ‘burbs. Picked Placerville, CA, which happens to be the birth place of the Hell’s Angels.....the Angels decided to hold a rally the same day,,,,Antifa cancelled theirs..

I would love to see the Angels all across the country decide to take on the Antifa.
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Old June 8, 2020, 04:35 PM   #32
zoo
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I would love to see the Angels all across the country decide to take on the Antifa.
Yes, they did such a bang up job at Altamont. You do realize ANTIFA isn't really an organization, right?

Quote:
Attorneys employ PIs in the Discovery part of a trial preparation, PIs employ programs to search the internet for your IDs and your posts.
You bet they do! In my six figure lawsuit in federal court against the State of Arizona for violating my 1st Amendment rights they came up with posts I had made years before that even I had forgotten I made! And then the NSA provided them with even more digital data they (the NSA) had collected from me. That was only a year or so before the Snowden information releases when folks didn't realize the feds were collecting and storing that kind of information from US citizens!
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Old June 9, 2020, 12:14 AM   #33
Ignition Override
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The chance of the stent collapsing in my "widowmaker" heart artery (-would be fatal-), is probably many times greater than any chance of troublemakers driving, never mind walking through this residential suburb.

Keep things in perspective.

* Edited: Most groups achieve what they want by instilling fear.
If Antifa or an offshoot were to attack any homes and children or babies were to die, such a new public relations problem for them might be quite serious with videos of small body bags carried from a home or two.

They would then lose much of their support, a few of which 'allegedly' are reported to be "mole sympathizers" within the FBI etc.

Last edited by Ignition Override; June 9, 2020 at 11:37 PM.
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Old June 9, 2020, 10:30 AM   #34
reynolds357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXAZ View Post
We live 20+ miles from a major Texas urban center that has been making the news. There was a specific threat yesterday about certain groups coming to a location very close to us then move the riots to the suburbs from there.

So...this is becoming much closer to home.

Without getting into politics (please!), what are your considerations / rules of engagement in a civil insurrection environment?
Previously I've never really considered:

The local PD *not* responding. (They have an incredibly fast average response time)
Large groups of rowdies coming down the street with or without weapons.

Any objective feedback appreciated.
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Old June 9, 2020, 11:09 PM   #35
JohnKSa
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That's kind of the point, isn't it?

To my way of thinking, it's far better to find out the problems with a strategy by talking through it as opposed to just doing it and then finding all the pitfalls in real life when everything is on the line and an error can make the difference between life and death, or between freedom and prison.

I mean, experience is a great teacher, but it's also the hardest teacher there is.
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Old June 11, 2020, 07:59 PM   #36
reynolds357
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Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post
That's kind of the point, isn't it?

To my way of thinking, it's far better to find out the problems with a strategy by talking through it as opposed to just doing it and then finding all the pitfalls in real life when everything is on the line and an error can make the difference between life and death, or between freedom and prison.

I mean, experience is a great teacher, but it's also the hardest teacher there is.
I agree, but I trust attorneys for that information.
If you do use deadly force, LAWYER UP!!!!!!
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Old June 11, 2020, 08:12 PM   #37
FITASC
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I mean, experience is a great teacher, but it's also the hardest teacher there is.
I believe the actual quote goes along the lines of: "Mother Nature is a cruel teacher; she gives you the test first and the lesson after"

Anyway:

I live in Florida.......we have a statue removal in a nearby town Saturday with outside agitators expeced and a BLM rally planned for Father's Day in my town. My philosophy follows the Sheriff and is the same as looters during a hurricane........"You loot, we shoot" looters were/are subject to lethal force. Peaceful protest? No problem.....Outside folks throwing Molotovs and bricks, stuff will get real. I fly the Gadsden Flag outside my home,


For some, it represents the TEA Party; for others, like me, it goes back even further.

My county is the ONLY black majority county in Florida, so we have black Sheriff, Commissioners, town councils, etc...........so this will be interesting to see how this all plays out and how the agitators behave.

So, to sum up; my wife and I are armed and prepared; we hope it goes smoothly with no outside issues..............BUT if "stuff" starts where they threaten my family......
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Old June 13, 2020, 07:19 AM   #38
Don P
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He is now 20yards from me and throws it at me. He has met all 3 criteria.
My emphasis on the 20 yards. 60 feet away is one hell of a throw with a brick. Just my opinion now, time to retreat? The brick is not coming at you at 90 mph, time to move and not get hit? At this distance I'm not sure deadly force would be justified
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