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Old January 17, 2017, 01:33 AM   #126
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It's basically as strong as an N-frame M27. I can't think of a stronger .357 made.
357 Redhawk? Check out the cylinder walls on that monster!!
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Old January 17, 2017, 01:23 PM   #127
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Ruger shoulda gone with the .41 Rem Mag, which is a real deal back country trail cartridge. But Ruger does need a few attempts before getting it right.

The .44 Special is an excellent self-defense cartridge, but who the hell carries wheel guns for self-defense? As good as a .44 Special is, I'd much rather have a Glock 22 loaded with 180 grain .40 S&W rounds and a spare mag.
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Old January 17, 2017, 01:25 PM   #128
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Pond,

Of what use would be a Redhawk chambered in .357 Mag? Wouldn't a GP 100 make a lot more sense?
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Old January 17, 2017, 01:45 PM   #129
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Of what use would be a Redhawk chambered in .357 Mag?
Super Sneaky Steve said:
Quote:
The New Vaquero in .357 is a six shot revolver on a .45 Colt sized frame, barrel and cylinder.

It's basically as strong as an N-frame M27. I can't think of a stronger .357 made.
And I simply pointed out that there was a Redhawk in .357 which would probably be stronger.

Not making any judgments on usefulness, although I suspect it would tame the recoil more than the GP...
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Old January 17, 2017, 03:25 PM   #130
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The .44 Special is an excellent self-defense cartridge, but who the hell carries wheel guns for self-defense? As good as a .44 Special is, I'd much rather have a Glock 22 loaded with 180 grain .40 S&W rounds and a spare mag.
because in reality....if two or three shots does not resolve the issue....

and compared to the tiny pocket pistols so many carry....a revolver is inadequate??

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Old January 17, 2017, 04:02 PM   #131
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The .44 Special is an excellent self-defense cartridge, but who the hell carries wheel guns for self-defense?
People who prefer wheelguns for some or all situations. There are a good many people who do.

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Old January 17, 2017, 04:03 PM   #132
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Sorry to disagree with you sir, but I carry a .357 magnum Kimber revolver as my EDC gun. I can hit with it very well, thank you. I carry one speedloader with 6 spare rounds. I am very well armed.
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Old January 17, 2017, 04:17 PM   #133
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but who the hell carries wheel guns for self-defense?
I do.

Oh and dozens of seasoned shooters right here on TFL including LEO and trainers, but what do they know?
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Old January 17, 2017, 08:56 PM   #134
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roashooter,

2 or 3 shots might resolve something providing one hits a bad guy with a .44 Special bullet. It gets a whole lot more dicey when you add another bad guy...or two to the confrontation. Bad guys rarely do bad things alone.

I have a GP 100. It's my fishing gun while wetting monofilament in black bear habitat. But it would not be my first bipedal self-defense choice. A Glock 22 is a whole lot easier to carry, holds more than twice as many rounds, and can be reloaded with more than twice as many rounds is far less than half the time it takes to reload a revolver.

Were I completely unable to avoid a bad guy who's intent on reducing my body to room temperature, I'd want to put as many rounds on him as possible while moving to a suitable barrier or running the hell outta there. The idea is to prevent a bad guy from hitting me, which could seriously screw up my trout fishing plans.
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Old January 17, 2017, 08:59 PM   #135
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Pond,

You know cops and law enforcement firearms training officers who carry revolvers for self-defense? I know of none, and my guess I know far more than you.

Dude, revolvers went out in the 80's. I know some cops who still will carry a Model 60 occasionally, but the overwhelming majority carry semiautos for the infinite advantages they provide.
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Old January 17, 2017, 09:03 PM   #136
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mk70ss,

You've gotta choose what's right for you. It's your life you're protecting. Always go with you think is best for saving your life.

A good thing to keep in mind is that if you have the extreme misfortune of running in to a bad guy, especially a banger, odds are he'll have at least one bad guy buddy close by, as in right behind you.

Another lifesaving factor to consider is that bad guys train. You might want to Google, "Layoff suspect."
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Old January 17, 2017, 10:47 PM   #137
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SansSouci......

Quote:
Don't put yourself in the situation to begin with. Black Friday mayhem, nightclub shootings....etc...No problem, my family and I are not there. It really is that simple.
sound familiar?

Quote:
A Glock 22 is a whole lot easier to carry, holds more than twice as many rounds, and can be reloaded with more than twice as many rounds is far less than half the time it takes to reload a revolver.
sounds like the recipe for spraying and praying...

Last edited by roashooter; January 17, 2017 at 10:57 PM.
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Old January 17, 2017, 11:04 PM   #138
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SansSouci,

Regarding your previous 3 posts, do you think that folks who do carry revolvers are unaware of your arguments? Most wheelgunners have taken into consideration the points you make. Some a number of years back.

Many people shoot revolvers better and have more confidence in them. You disagree with their choice. Point taken.

They have made their choice, one they have reasoned out. You may want to rethink pestering folks about it. It never looks good to lecture folks about things they have already thought through as if they were novices.

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Old January 18, 2017, 01:37 AM   #139
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You know cops and law enforcement firearms training officers who carry revolvers for self-defense? I know of none, and my guess I know far more than you.
Kraigw on here does... retired LEO, granted, but still.

Check out his posts if you're not sure whether he knows his stuff or not. I've certainly made up my mind on that point. Some time ago.

Let's put it this way. Would you feel overly comfortable confronting a person armed with a revolver? If they're so ineffective, surely it's in the bag for you....

A rhetorical question, lest this derails the thread.
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Old January 18, 2017, 06:47 AM   #140
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I am a retired cop. 21 years on the job in Massachusetts. Ten year firearm instructor for our department. Trained officers in handgun, patrol rifle, shotgun, and pepperball guns. Midnight shift for 10 years, vice/narcotics for 5 years, then accident reconstruction. I have a safe full off semi autos and wheel guns, so my available carry choices are wide ranging in both type and caliber.

The .357 gets the nod from me and I am fairly confident after having dealt with the criminal element my whole life, that I can defend me and mine with a wheel gun.

Stay alert, be capable with your choice of weapon, and have sound tactics and the will to survive whatever comes your way. That is what makes you prevail, not the method of ammo feeding in your weapon.
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Old January 18, 2017, 02:42 PM   #141
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I was in law enforcement for 10 years during the crack epidemic in NYC and carried a revolver and now retired still often carry a revolver, lately a .327 LCR or a Seecamp 25 ACP. I know many retired and active law enforcement who carry a revolver either all the time ( retired) or off duty ( active). Some were even range officers. I'm comfortable with what I carry.
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Old January 19, 2017, 07:39 AM   #142
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roashooter,

Spray and pray is gun magazine jargon. It has zero applicability in gunfights.

When cops fire 50 rounds and hits no one neophytes will ascribe something unkind to the cops involved. In contrast, my first question is whether cops survived. If they did, it was a fantastic outcome.

Spray and pray is a cute bromide that is the creed of those who can rationalize dying with bullets in their guns.
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Old January 19, 2017, 07:48 AM   #143
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Pond,

So you know one, but not personally. From that flimsy hearsay, you've extrapolated an untenable position.

1 out of maybe hundreds of thousands cops. And you're hustling that as proof of a mysterious six-gun dragon slayer?

I don't care what people carry. Self-defense is a personal issue. What's right for one might be all wrong for another. But hand gunners will lose credibility when they try to hustle BS about revolvers being as good as semiautos.

BTW, I've had two revolvers fail, and I know of other cops who have had catastrophic revolver failures. My P-229 has never failed to fire, and I've put thousands of rounds through it.

I know of not one single law enforcement agency that allows its cops to carry revolvers.

Pond, don't fall into the logical fallacy of trying to disprove a rule by citing a very rare exception.
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Old January 19, 2017, 07:51 AM   #144
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heyjoe,

I guess we're looking at a distinct West Coast - East Coast dichotomy. But my intuition tells me that there might be an ulterior motive for your post.
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Old January 19, 2017, 07:54 AM   #145
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mk70ss,

I personally know a cop who put six .357 Mag man killer rounds in a very bad guy's chest. It didn't faze him. A single round of 00 buck made him property of the coroner.

Those old school guys hold on to myths far too long.

Do you know of any law enforcement agency that issues revolvers? That allows its cops to carry revolvers? I don't. Zip, zero, zilch, Nada.
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Old January 19, 2017, 09:01 AM   #146
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Pond,

So you know one, but not personally. From that flimsy hearsay, you've extrapolated an untenable position.
Citing only one does not mean I know of only one.
And what, pray tell, do you interpret my "untenable position" to be?

Just look back at what I've said on this issue and in which context (i.e. your own comments).
I have stated no position. I have merely refuted yours.

Quote:
1 out of maybe hundreds of thousands cops. And you're hustling that as proof of a mysterious six-gun dragon slayer?
Hustling? I don't think answering your very own question is hustling.

You ask if I know any and I gave you a name. And the dragon-slayer hyperbole.... really?

Quote:
I don't care what people carry. Self-defense is a personal issue. What's right for one might be all wrong for another. But hand gunners will lose credibility when they try to hustle BS about revolvers being as good as semiautos.
You claim no personal position on this but your very own opening volley on this topic of "Who the hell carries....?" screams personal involvement.
Note I've not said that revolvers are better than semis. Nor has anyone else in this thread that I can think of.

Hand gunners lose credibility when they put words in the posts of others to support their arguments.

Quote:
BTW, I've had two revolvers fail, and I know of other cops who have had catastrophic revolver failures. My P-229 has never failed to fire, and I've put thousands of rounds through it.
So, wait a second... You extole the virtues of not relying on a sample size of one to prove a point (even though that wasn't what I was doing), but you'll happily rely on a sample size of two to prove yours...

Quote:
I know of not one single law enforcement agency that allows its cops to carry revolvers.
There are LEO in Spain who carry them as it happens. Seen them myself. But gun choice in LE is largely about cost, rather than purely about efficiency. A new K-frame is probably much more expensive than the standard issue GlockXX. Your initial point was also about self-defence, not dept issue.

Quote:
Pond, don't fall into the logical fallacy of trying to disprove a rule by citing a very rare exception.
Point 1:
There is no rule here. There is your personal opinion. And mine. And that of others

Point 2:
You make out that only LEOs are in a position to make sound judgment on gun choice. Yet many have far less experience of gun ownership, marksmanship maintenance etc than a good few of forum the people on this and others like it.

Point 3:
I merely provided what you'd asked for. A single name. But if that is not enough for you, just look at the revolver forum to see how many own and carry wheel-guns.
Are you now trying to say that, because they are not LEOs they therefore have worthless opinions on the merits of one gun over another?!

Point 4:
Look at the revolver market and how many are still being made, launched and sold. People still buy them. By their 100s of 1000s. As all those buyers ignorant? Are all those who buy semis knowledgeable?

I think you should take your own advice.
I also don't think you should make personal judgements about people purely because they don't share you choices and preferences.
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Old January 19, 2017, 10:35 AM   #147
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SansSouci heyjoe,

I guess we're looking at a distinct West Coast - East Coast dichotomy. But my intuition tells me that there might be an ulterior motive for your post.
An ulterior motive and what would that be.....your post is ridiculous. If facts dont agree with your theory you then attack the poster?

The largest police force in the nation still has officers carrying revolvers everyday on duty.
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Old January 19, 2017, 10:48 AM   #148
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heyjoe,

Your ulterior motive is your affinity for revolvers. But I might be wrong.

I love a good revolver. But the best revolver is a poor self-defense handgun when compared with a Glock 22 or similar handgun. A .357 Mag holds six rounds and takes too long to reload anther 6. A Glock 22 holds 16 rounds of the superior .40 S&W rounds, and it takes far less time to reload another 15.

If you want to carry a revolver to protect your life, I'm good. After all, self-defense is a personal issue. You ought to always go with what's right for you. But it might be wise to keep in mind what were your life on the line, especially by more that one bad guy, a Glock 22 might be a better choice.

Now, can you tell me of any law enforcement agency in American that issues revolvers or allows its cops to carry revolvers. I know of exactly zero. Where I used to work, cops are forbidden to carry revolvers as their primary duty handgun.
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Old January 19, 2017, 11:20 AM   #149
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Pond,

You seem to have assumed the role of alpha poster here, omniscient of all things firearms. And you'll attack in a condescending way those whom disagree with you.

Here's my take: you're a gun magazine commando. You've never attended a single professional firearms training course. You don't know of a single law enforcement agency that issues revolvers. You'll make stuff up to support your untenable positions, even resorting to ad hominem rejoinders.

I going with your not personally knowing of a single cop who carries a revolver for self-defense. Cops are exposed to firearms tactics and training in academy and at AOT courses. They know what works best for saving their lives.

I do know cops and retired cops who, at times, will have a Model 60 close by, but their primary self-defense weapon is a semi-auto. And if you know tactical handguns like you think you do, you'd know why. I could reload 15 .40 S&W rounds in a Glock 22 in far less than half the time it'd take to reload 5 or 6 in a revolver.

Remember, Pond, that Rule 1 of surviving a gunfight is to avoid getting in one.

Rule 2: If Rule 1 is unavoidable, don't get shot. And in that last clause is found the importance of suppressive fire. You can't allow a bad guy to take accurate shots at you. If you're in a gunfight, it's because a bad guy (or bad guys) wants you dead. It will do you no good to die with live rounds in your gun.

Rule 3: Never trade your life for a bad guy's life.

Rule 4: Retreat tactically (run the hell outta there) as soon as possible. The longer you engage, the longer you'll place your life at risk.

I have two friends with CCW's. Neither carries a revolver. One doesn't own a revolver. In the courses they had to attend to obtain their CCW's, neither were taught tactical shooting. I had to teach them. Neither had heard of point shooting. I had one scoring direct point shooting hits within ten minutes. Now he knows that he can hit a bad guy while scanning for other threats. That's handy to know if one lives close to LA.

Pond, I'm good with what you believe. And believe me, some of what you believe I believe to be BS. But then again, I've been taught and trained by professionals. And not one time did a professional firearms instructor mention spray and pray. They did emphasize suppressive fire and the vital importance of not getting shot.

If cops fire a hundred rounds at a bad guy, the naive will find fault with the cops' shooting skills. The learned will ask one question: did the cops live? If so, it was good shooting. In fact, I don't care how many rounds a cop has to fire as long as he survives. That's the only tally that matters.

Pond, my advice for you is to always go with Rule 1. That way you'll be able to stick around and post on forearms forums. Wise professionals live by Rule 1.

It's a whole lot better to be a live witness than a dead hero.
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Old January 19, 2017, 11:28 AM   #150
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heyjoe,

What is the largest law enforcement agency in America? Is it still NYPD?
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