April 7, 2017, 02:52 PM | #1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2016
Posts: 9
|
9mm Reloading Help Please
Hello All
Recently I got a new batch of 124gr FMJ 9mm bullets from Everglades ammo. This is the third time I've ordered from them, I've pretty much gotten all of my projectiles from them recently for 40 s&w and 223 rem. I should note I haven't had any problems with their products before which makes me believe there is some user error going on. Anyway I'm running into some problems in the bullet seating step of the reloading process. I am seating the bullet consistently to 1.145" +/- 0.001 and ALL of the rounds I've loaded aren't fitting in the EGW chamber checker. The case is not sitting flush in the chamber checker which is cause for some concern. I ran a few through my dad's XDs and wouldn't you know it I had 2 FTE and 2 FTF in 20 rounds. I am using Lee 4 die set. I am doing crimping and bullet seating in two different steps as I've seen a lot of problems can stem from doing them both in the same step. There doesn't look to be much case bulge and honestly I can't seem to find where the problem is at. I've adjusted the crimp to more and less, I've backed the seating die out decently far and screwed the stem in more. You name it, I've tried it. After resizing and decapping the brass I put it in the chamber checker and it fits perfectly. Even after flaring the mouth I placed it in the chamber checker and it still fits perfectly. This is what is making me think there is a problem in the bullet seating step. I've cleaned the dies so there's no build up in there. I just really cant seem to find the problem. Any help would be appreciated. I will try to respond to anyone in a timely manner. Thanks in advance! I can post pictures if necessary, I'm just not home at the moment |
April 7, 2017, 03:10 PM | #2 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 3, 2016
Location: Outside of New Orleans, LA.
Posts: 313
|
Quote:
I load 9mm and not had problems with it like learning the roll-crimp for .38/357. I'm sure someone much more knowledgeable will be along to give you some more ideas. Good luck!
__________________
- Robert |
|
April 7, 2017, 03:16 PM | #3 |
Member
Join Date: March 5, 2017
Posts: 57
|
1.145 seems a little long for 9mm.
Possible that the bullet is preventing the case from sitting flush? |
April 7, 2017, 03:17 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,787
|
Have you checked the bullet diameter?
|
April 7, 2017, 03:18 PM | #5 |
Staff
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21,060
|
1.169" is the SAAMI max COL for 9 mm. That would be for a military style elliptical profile RN bullet. As shapes get wider and more blunt is when you generally have to seat them shorter.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle |
April 7, 2017, 03:26 PM | #6 |
Member
Join Date: November 18, 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 45
|
Just a few suggestions for you
Make sure you're not over crimping, just use enough bell/flare to set the bullet in straight, all you need to do is remove the bell/flare, very little crimp is needed on straight wall brass. Plunk test your rounds in the barrel of your gun, most barrel chambers are larger than gages. I was having some issues as you are , it could be a nick close to the rim preventing the round to go all the way in the gage. I eventually purchased an U die (undersized .001) from Lee which sizes the shell further down. Seemed to help. Check your sizing die, screw it down to the shell plate then back off slightly so you can size the case as far down as possible. Also check the bullets size .355/.356 Good luck, take your time, do one step at a time, you'll figure it out. It can be aggravating sometimes, but hang in there.
__________________
" Hollow Points.....From Those Who Care Enough To Send The Very Best" |
April 7, 2017, 04:04 PM | #7 |
Junior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2016
Posts: 9
|
Wow thanks everyone for the quick replies.
I have used the chamber checker before and it works fine. I've checked my rounds in there before as well as some factory rounds which work great. In terms of the COL, what would you say is a normal size for a 9mm. I'm using true blue powder and the minimum is 1.142" so i just keep it a little on the higher side so that there is room for error. I've checked about 10 random bullets and all of them were 0.355" with no variance between any of them (which is nice, and why I believe this is an error of mine somehow). I use very little crimp on all of my rounds, especially 9mm. I don't want anything fishy going on with the neck tension. I have also seen the "U-die". I don't want to purchase something and then have that not be the solution (i guess i could return it though, lol). Why would I back out the sizing die if I want to make sure that the cases are being sized properly, wouldn't it be better to screw in until it touches the shell holder, then go and turn it in another quarter/half turn? Thank you all for the information. I'm just going crazy because this is happening to every round, not just one or two. I will try to seat the bullet in deeper but I don't know if that will do anything. I just don't understand how it was working and then all of a sudden, BOOM, now they don't want to work. Thanks again for all the help! |
April 7, 2017, 04:28 PM | #8 |
Member
Join Date: November 18, 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 45
|
I load on A Dillon 550b and per set up instructions says to screw down until it touches plate and back off slightly, then snug the lock ring.
__________________
" Hollow Points.....From Those Who Care Enough To Send The Very Best" |
April 7, 2017, 04:30 PM | #9 |
Junior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2016
Posts: 9
|
Hmm, I never saw anything about backing the die out, but I'll give that a shot because that's something I haven't tried.
|
April 7, 2017, 04:36 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 16, 2014
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,634
|
I'd guess the rounds are too long and hitting the rifling. Are the "defective" rounds any longer than the rounds that work?
Maybe you're short stroking the press. I.e. not fully seating the bullet. Maybe the ogive on the bullets aren't uniform and some are fatter than others. |
April 7, 2017, 04:38 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 24, 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 759
|
If I were you I would look up in the seating die to see if you have a flat nose profile seating stem in there. It sounds to me like your seating the bullets crooked.
That will cause a bulge on the side of the case and make it tight in the gauge. |
April 7, 2017, 05:15 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 26, 2016
Posts: 1,564
|
You can determine exactly why they won't fit. Use a magic marker as explained in this link to see where they sticking: http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloadi...he-plunk-test/
The chamber checker is not as useful as your barrel's chamber. They don't have to fit the chamber checker, but they do have to fit your chamber. |
April 7, 2017, 05:17 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 26, 2016
Posts: 1,564
|
Where did you get the minimum 1.142" OAL?
Most manuals show the OAL they used, but that does not mean it will fit in your chamber. You might have to seat the bullet deeper to fit in your chamber because they are not all the same. |
April 7, 2017, 05:36 PM | #14 |
Junior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2016
Posts: 9
|
So how would I fix that problem with the ogive on the bullets? I don't think that's a problem that I can fix.
I tried the magic marker thing and I don't see anything that seems out of the ordinary. If anything it seemed like in the middle of the case there was a small line but I don't know how I'm affecting any of that. The oal is the Min OAL listed in the manual I have for the powder that I am using. When I get home I'm going to try a few things. I'm going to try and seat the bullet deeper see if that helps. I'll also redo the plunk test with the marker. I specifically want all these rounds to fit the chamber checker because I have several pistols that I shoot and I just want some uniformity. If it fits the chamber checker, it'll fit my pistol and feed effectively |
April 7, 2017, 06:00 PM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 26, 2016
Posts: 1,564
|
Quote:
You can seat the bullet to any length you desire. If you seat it deeper than what was used in the manual, pressure will go up if you use the same charge weight of powder. To reduce pressure, reduce the amount of powder. Which manual are you using? |
|
April 7, 2017, 06:14 PM | #16 |
Junior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2016
Posts: 9
|
I'm using both Lyman's 49th and modern reloading 2nd ed from lee
|
April 7, 2017, 06:32 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 26, 2016
Posts: 1,564
|
Look at your manuals again. Lyman uses much shorter OALs than 1.142".
Even the Lee manual lists shorter OALs than 1.142". The "official" minimum OAL is set by SAAMI, and for the 9mm Luger is 1.000". See page 27 here: http://www.saami.org/specifications_...20_CFPandR.pdf That said, you can load any bullet to any OAL you want as long as you adjust your load accordingly. The main consideration for OAL is whether it fits in the magazine and chamber and feeds reliably and the pressure does not exceed recommended maximums. Give us the details on your load data. How much True Blue is the maximum in the manual? How much are you loading? You might want to download Western's loading manual. It has lots of True Blue data. http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/up...2016_Web-1.pdf |
April 7, 2017, 07:06 PM | #18 |
Member
Join Date: April 30, 2008
Posts: 40
|
A picture of the round not fitting in the 'chamber checker' would be nice. If you're using a typical case gauge, it's open on both ends, so case OAL would not prevent it from seating properly. That leaves you with cartridge diameter.
Several things could affect diameter. It is easier to see a picture of a few rounds that don't fit and ones that do, rather than spitball on the internet. P.S. I'm frankly surprised that a bell'd case would fit your 'chamber checker'. My Dillon case gauges will reject a 9mm cartridge if there is any 'belling' of the case mount. |
April 7, 2017, 07:07 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 6, 2014
Posts: 128
|
Run some cases without seating a bullet but crimp them as though you had seated a bullet (it would be best to not charge it with powder), then see if they fit your chamber checker. That will tell you if the bullet is involved or just your crimp.
I have had some 9mm bullets that wouldn't check, I use a Lyman case gauge, because the rim got dinged by the extractor or had been loaded several times. I found that if I placed the round in the gauge backwards it would tell me if the rim was dinged up. That's my two cents worth at the moment but I do have a pocket full of pennies. Bryant |
April 7, 2017, 07:37 PM | #20 |
Junior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2016
Posts: 9
|
Okay that is very helpful. What is the best way to build up my own loads? I'd be totally fine doing that but I don't know a safe way to do it. I understand lower powder and work up but what would the starting powder be? I won't be home and able to do anything until tomorrow but I will give you my numbers then.
I will post a picture tomorrow morning as well if the round not fitting. It's not much, but it's not flush with the gauge on top of I've had some malfunctions. And honestly I thought the same thing when I put the case that's flared into it, totally thought it wouldn't fit. That sounds like a good idea I will try that. The only thing I'd be worried about is because the bullet wouldn't be seated it may crimp too much and not give an accurate read. But I'm gonna try that out for sure. Once again, thank you all for the help. I don't know anyone who reloads, mainly me and my dad just go to the range and shoot and I kind of enjoy that. But I have been thinking about giving a competition a go, seems like fun |
April 7, 2017, 07:39 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 21, 2013
Location: Idaho
Posts: 5,521
|
Everglades 124 JHP's
I'm a little late here an don't have any direct answers. But do have a couple things to add . . .
I load the Everglades 124 JHP. I've loaded and shot (and chronographed) a few hundred; and am sitting on about 2000 more of them - so that says something about how confident I am with their function in my guns. I have measured their diameter at .355" consistently (although, I'm using .001 calipers; and actually need a .0001 V-anvil micrometer to truly get a good measurement). I set their OAL to 1.120" per plunk test with my Beretta 92fs and Kahr CW9. I seat and crimp in separate steps. I seat with an RCBS die; and crimp with a Lee FCD. Is your Lee crimp die a FCD? I don't use a chamber checker as I am a firm believer that the best chamber to use as a checker is the gun(s) barrel(s) that will be shooting them. I haven't drop checked every round that I load - just a few - but ran into no issues. At the range, the ammo functions flawlessly. Your OAL sounds a little long to me; but that doesn't mean it is. Wouldn't hurt to shorten them up 20/1000ths and try it. Hope that helps at least a little. The main thrust of this post is that I highly doubt that the problem is with the Everglades bullet. Not only do I use them; but I also have a friend who uses them more than me, without issue.
__________________
Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association |
April 7, 2017, 07:55 PM | #22 |
Junior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2016
Posts: 9
|
Yeah I never thought it was a fault of theirs. I've shot about 4000 rounds of all my calibers and I haven't had a problem. But then one day it just started for reasons unknown. I would suggest them to pretty much anyone
|
April 7, 2017, 09:19 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 26, 2016
Location: NE Atlanta
Posts: 337
|
"The bullet ogive is defined as the “curve of a bullet’s forward section” and can be expressed as a tangent ogive or secant ogive." - I stole that from some google search...
This determines COAL for a specific profile of bullet. The curvature of a round nose will be different form various manufacturers. On extreme magnification would you seat at flat point the same as a round nose? It may take some experimentation with a chamber or a case gauge. |
April 8, 2017, 06:33 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 28, 2013
Posts: 3,169
|
I went through this same thing and eventually discovered that the ogive on the bullets I use was more blunt and had to be seated substantially deeper to function properly. So what I did was to first seat a bullet long in a sized, unprimed, empty case. Then I plunk it and keep seating deeper until it plunks reliably in my chambers of all my 9mm's. Then I seat slightly deeper to allow for bullet variations. From here is where I start my load work up watching powder depth closely to avoid compression due to seating the bullet deeper. Once I find the best load, I then load up 100 rounds and check for function in all my guns. Once I confirm reliability, I go ahead and load and shoot another 500 or so to get a more positive proof of reliability. If all is well at this point it becomes one of my standard loads and I'll load up a couple thousand for stock.
|
April 8, 2017, 07:41 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 3,609
|
Brick,
You may want to contact the bullet manufacturer, and ask if they have a recommended coal. I had gotten a box of Sierra 115gr. HP for the 9mm. Load data shows generally for the Hornady XTP, or just generic HP. Western's data showed a COAL of 1.070" for the XTP. Bullet would get stuck in the lands of my pistol. Couldn't get the cartridge out of the chamber. Sierra lists 1.050"COAL for their 115gr. HP. Never hurts to ask. |
Tags |
9mm , fmj , lee dies |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|