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Old February 10, 2018, 10:42 AM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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Suggestions for Arsenal SAM-7 Owner?

I have a buddy who recently managed to pick up a SAM-7. He's a responsible guy with a business and family and his gun budget is pretty limited. His birthday is coming up and I wanted to get him some toys for his new rifle; but while I can clean, dissassemble and run an AK, I'm not all that familiar with modifying them or what are some good products.

Any suggestions?
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Old February 10, 2018, 08:49 PM   #2
halfcocked
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They are pretty nice from the factory. I'd be happy with mags and/or ammo.
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Old February 11, 2018, 08:33 PM   #3
HistoryJunky
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Maybe a Manticore Arms Night Brake. They're a very good muzzle brake and only 50 dollars.

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Old February 12, 2018, 09:49 AM   #4
Fishbed77
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Quote:
They are pretty nice from the factory. I'd be happy with mags and/or ammo.
Agreed. A SAM-7 is one of the nicer AKs out there. Why would you modify it at all? It just needs mags and ammo.
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Old February 15, 2018, 06:00 AM   #5
Venom1956
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Return it.

Newer sam7s are a dangerous improperly built gun. It uses a number of parts that were never intended to function correctly together and can easily discharge especially if it lacks the ambi safety option.

A person familiar with Aks can fix or avoid these issues but if it is a new user of AK rifles I have a list of fixes and information I can post for them. If you want to give him a gift I would recommend making it safe or sending it to a smith for repairs.
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Old February 15, 2018, 07:58 AM   #6
Bartholomew Roberts
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If there are safety issues, I sure want to hear about them. He has
more AK experience than I do; but I doubt he would have bought the rifle if he thought it unsafe.
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Old February 15, 2018, 12:16 PM   #7
Venom1956
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The safety lever, FCG, and topcover on the current production sam7s are all incorrect for the rifle. I've contacted Arsenal about this and they have refused to take any steps to address this issue.

I own many arsenal guns and hold them in high regard so when something this obviously wrong comes on a gun north of 1500 dollars that I wouldnt accept on a 300 dollar US made century arms AK it is disappointing.

Quote:
Newer sam7s have a smooth top cover that can allow the safety to fail when the hammer is cocked. Make sure the rifle is charged and safety on and see how your safety lever reacts.

I am not sure if your AK has the ambi safety but I included the fixes for it anyway. It would probably be easiest to get a replacement safety lever TBH. Fixes are copied from a message I sent to another user if something is repeated or gibberish.

https://media.giphy.com/media/llvs2lfZqOaha/giphy.gifHere is the Sam7 I've worked on.

My main concern for sam7 owners is if the safety travels up and over the top cover to disassembly position it will trip the hammer and if chambered discharge without any warning.

"My best guess is the original run of SAM7sf had a correct top cover like the one shown on the website but now this newer production the old top covers aren't made or something so they went with a smooth milled top cover to fit. I honestly couldn't say contacting Arsenal about this issue and this video didn't go over great. I sent it in they just sent it right back stating 'the rifle functions as intended as far as we can determine."

Here is a list of fixes I have done to the one in the video

1.) First fix super cheap and easy get a paperclip and small allen or torx set screw with no head you know the kind i mean? Index the safety to the correct 'safe' position and then make a mark on the pistol grip where the ambi lever to prevent any more forward travel. Melt a hole in the grip and thread the allen screw into it making it a stop for the ambi safety.

2.) Remove ambi safety and install replacement AK safety lever with the 'cupped' face and or modify the original safety to have the cupped front rather then the upward slant.

3.) Hammer out lip on top cover. if you make the top cover stick out a bit more the safety should not be able to skip over top I couldn't figure out a way to do this with out the top cover looking like crap so I have no other advice on this.

4.) This ones kinda extreme but after the first two solutions he elected to do this when he got it cerakoted. weld up the ambi safety slot to function like the allen screw in the pistol grip its a much more robust fix but also the most expensive and labor intensive."
Sorry if there is some gibberish on this its a generic post I keep on hand to send new owners online.
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Last edited by Venom1956; February 15, 2018 at 12:34 PM.
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Old February 15, 2018, 11:38 PM   #8
dvdcrr
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I have been shooting Arsenals for 20 yr. now and have no idea what you are talking about. The top cover has no bearing on the function of an AK safety.
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Old February 16, 2018, 01:39 AM   #9
Venom1956
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Quote:
I have been shooting Arsenals for 20 yr. now and have no idea what you are talking about. The top cover has no bearing on the function of an AK safety.
This is a common misconception. If you want me to explain it to you I will try and help you understand but I don't really want to start and argument about it.


This is the original SAM7 config. This is the SAFE configuration of the sam7 rifle note the correct topcover that is up and over the entire safety.


This is an image of the current production smooth topcover and T3 style safety. This is the UNSAFE configuration of this rifle.

The style of top cover and safety directly influence one another. Most modern AK rifles and pistols use a cupped safety of the AKM. Now a correctly fitted cupped AKM safety shouldn't in theory need to interact with the top cover ever.

I found a good picture off google of the one on the sam7 vs lets say my SGLs or SLRs



The Sam7 uses the T3 style safety in that image. that front flat of the safety is actually cut at a slight angle which is encourages the safety lever upwards when it experiences pressure. When used with the correct topcovers this prevents impacts from forcing it down into an unsafe position while the top cover prevents it from over traveling in to 'disassembly' position of straight up. Here are examples of correct stepped out top covers that would interact correctly with the style of safety the sam7 uses. See that little flat on the top of the T3 and AKM safeties? That is where it interacts with the top cover.


Russian AKM style ribbed topcover fully captures safety lever pretty much identical to original SAM7 rifles top cover.


This is a sort of hybrid between the smooth top covers and one that fully covers the Safety. That tab sticking out is enough to prevent the safety from hopping over the topcover.

The krink topcover also uses this similar setup but I cannot post more then six images.

I've contacted Arsenal about this. I asked them why it no longer ships with a ribbed top cover with safety lever cover. They claim they cannot get them any longer which is why all 2nd production Sam7s ship with smooth flush top covers.

This is why in the posted gif it is so easy to force the safety upwards with just hand strength it only needs to over come and edge to edge fit of a maximum of a few millimeters. Which is not how that safety style was intended to work.
After the first time the safety detent will damage the topcover and make it even easier each time.

The last and most critical part of this whole insane mess is... The Sam7 safety is a FA spec safety in a semi auto gun.



This becomes a problem because if an AK is cocked with a full auto safety is moved into disassembly position it will trip the sear slightly and allow the hammer to fall unimpeded onto the firing pin and discharge the rifle. Which the rifle in that gif did after its safety failed luckily the 4 rules were followed and no one was injured and after which I have replicated deliberately and safely both dry and live fire (from a vice).

Sam7s with ambi safety levers should prevent the sear being tripped, the ambi lever gets caught and stops upward movement. If it is lacking or the ambi part has been removed the rifle can and will discharge if the lever goes to far up.

So if any ONE of these THREE parts had been changed whatsoever is rifle would go from dangerously unsafe to simply poor craftsmanship or quirky design issue with an easy fix.

I love my stamped Arsenals they have all been top tier weapons so I hold them to that kind of quality on all their products. To find this sort of laziness or shortsightedness in a rifle they charge around 1500.00 for is unacceptable period. If Century Arms WASRs did this it would be unacceptable. Any professional AK builder should be able to see the issues with this setup and take steps to avoid it.

This is a massive issue and I've done my research and homework. I've tested Sam7sf, Sam7 krinks, Sam7Rs, SLRs, SGLs, Dracos, Wasrs, Paps, and Veprs. Gen 2 Sam7 rifles with smooth top covers are the ONLY in production AK style rifle I've found to have this issue*. I have not checked PSAK47 and some of the domestic Century aks but they are on my list.

I don't take any joy in saying this, but this is a problem and its a problem alot of fans of the SAM7 refuse to listen or even entertain the idea of. They paid top dollar for a milled AK they think is the best AK on the market hearing it has such a glaring flaw is a bitter pill to swallow.

SAM7 has a massive fan base and as quality stamped imports stop (Russia) and cheaper alternatives climb in price (WASRs) the appeal to pay a bit more and get a SAM7 will only mean more and more owners of this gun.

I hold Arsenal to a higher standard. I expected better.
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E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that.
I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

Last edited by Venom1956; February 16, 2018 at 02:07 AM.
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