Kisrt issues w/ Pietta 1858 Remington

scot_th_rock · April 6, 2021, 06:19 PM

I have a Pietta 1858 Remington with the Kirst 45 Long Colt conversion. I am having issues with the conversion and hope you might have some insight.

The 'K' plate with the shell door base needed to be filed slightly so it fit evenly in the frame. Initially the flat part of the plate had the cylinder binding. That's now corrected. However in the process I managed to break the flat spring on the 'hand' that's attached to the hammer that advances the cylinder. I pulled too hard on the trigger while it was binding and that broke the spring on the Hand as well as possible other damage.

I ordered the replacement part (All this through Taylors) and it's a match. Upon reassembly of just the trigger mechanism and hammer it cocks and releases normally when the trigger is pulled.

However, when I install the cylinder it only cocks halfway, does not lock until I move the cylinder a little and the locking lug at the bottom of the frame engages the notch in the cylinder keeping it in place. Then the hammer goes back all the way and locks. It's aligned with the chamber and barrel and when trigger pulled the hammer falls BUT the bottom lug releases at the same time causing the cylinder to move slightly.

With the 'K' plate off I and just the cylinder installed I can see the Hand advancing the cylinder in the notch but it still binds slightly and I have to slightly move it with my hand while putting pressure on the trigger and moving the hammer with my thumb. Then it will advance and lock into place.

I installed the original black powder cylinder to see if the same thing happened and it does.

I'm not sure if the Hand needs to be bent slightly or if the lug that locks it into place is messed up. Really concerned about the lug dropping when I pull the trigger. That's only supposed to happen I cock it. There is also a little drag mark on the cylinder from the locking lug. I adjusted the tension spring screw under the trigger to see if it was too tight. Regardless of how loose or tight the spring is the same result as described remains.

I fear I may have messed up that lug piece or something. For the record the action and cylinder worked fine out of the box.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

noelf2 · April 7, 2021, 06:50 AM

If you get nothing here, contact TheOutlawKid or 45 Dragoon at thehighroad.org. I'm thinking the leg on the bolt that rides the cam on the hammer is broken or bent, and needs to be worked on, or replaced and shaped.

Hawg · April 7, 2021, 06:55 AM

Hands are not a drop in fit. New hands need to be filed to fit. Do not try to bend it.

**Aguila Blanca** · April 7, 2021, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawg

Hands are not a drop in fit. New hands need to be filed to fit. Do not try to bend it.

^^^ This. Did you replace just the hand spring, or did you get a new hand with the spring pre-installed? If you got a complete new hand assembly, the new hand is probably too long -- hold it up against the original, under a bright light 9and with a magnifying glass, if you have one) and compare them carefully.

Sarge · April 7, 2021, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noelf2

If you get nothing here, contact TheOutlawKid or 45 Dragoon at thehighroad.org. I'm thinking the leg on the bolt that rides the cam on the hammer is broken or bent, and needs to be worked on, or replaced and shaped.

Based on Scot's description of the problem, that's the first place I'd look. If the hand is too long it will cause/contribute to it; so both must be corrected. I love '58s.

Oliver Sudden · April 7, 2021, 03:12 PM

Check the groove that the hand moves in, there maybe a burr that the spring is hitting that caused the spring to break when you tried to force it. The new part is doing the same thing so it’s a good chance there’s a burr.

scot_th_rock · April 23, 2021, 03:08 PM

Update:

When I initially installed my Kirst converter in my 1858 Remington I had fitting and timing issues. I had to shorten hand about a millimeter at a time until it advanced the cylinder into the correct position for the locking lug to engage. Additionally I had to taper the locking lug a bit to fit into the locking notch on the cylinder. That and adjusted the timing spring tension. I also had to take about a millimeter off the flat plate the sits in the frame and is the back of the cylinder with the load gate. Out of the box it sat too high in the frame and caused the cylinder pin to bind and would not advance. Once those adjustments were made it cycles perfectly.

Thank you everyone for your input and advice. Thanks to you all this thing is ready to knock over some cans!

April 6, 2021, 06:19 PM	#1
scot_th_rock Junior Member Join Date: June 8, 2012 Posts: 7	Kisrt issues w/ Pietta 1858 Remington I have a Pietta 1858 Remington with the Kirst 45 Long Colt conversion. I am having issues with the conversion and hope you might have some insight. The 'K' plate with the shell door base needed to be filed slightly so it fit evenly in the frame. Initially the flat part of the plate had the cylinder binding. That's now corrected. However in the process I managed to break the flat spring on the 'hand' that's attached to the hammer that advances the cylinder. I pulled too hard on the trigger while it was binding and that broke the spring on the Hand as well as possible other damage. I ordered the replacement part (All this through Taylors) and it's a match. Upon reassembly of just the trigger mechanism and hammer it cocks and releases normally when the trigger is pulled. However, when I install the cylinder it only cocks halfway, does not lock until I move the cylinder a little and the locking lug at the bottom of the frame engages the notch in the cylinder keeping it in place. Then the hammer goes back all the way and locks. It's aligned with the chamber and barrel and when trigger pulled the hammer falls BUT the bottom lug releases at the same time causing the cylinder to move slightly. With the 'K' plate off I and just the cylinder installed I can see the Hand advancing the cylinder in the notch but it still binds slightly and I have to slightly move it with my hand while putting pressure on the trigger and moving the hammer with my thumb. Then it will advance and lock into place. I installed the original black powder cylinder to see if the same thing happened and it does. I'm not sure if the Hand needs to be bent slightly or if the lug that locks it into place is messed up. Really concerned about the lug dropping when I pull the trigger. That's only supposed to happen I cock it. There is also a little drag mark on the cylinder from the locking lug. I adjusted the tension spring screw under the trigger to see if it was too tight. Regardless of how loose or tight the spring is the same result as described remains. I fear I may have messed up that lug piece or something. For the record the action and cylinder worked fine out of the box. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

April 7, 2021, 06:50 AM	#2
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	If you get nothing here, contact TheOutlawKid or 45 Dragoon at thehighroad.org. I'm thinking the leg on the bolt that rides the cam on the hammer is broken or bent, and needs to be worked on, or replaced and shaped.

April 7, 2021, 06:55 AM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Hands are not a drop in fit. New hands need to be filed to fit. Do not try to bend it.

April 7, 2021, 03:12 PM	#6
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	Check the groove that the hand moves in, there maybe a burr that the spring is hitting that caused the spring to break when you tried to force it. The new part is doing the same thing so it’s a good chance there’s a burr.

April 23, 2021, 03:08 PM	#7
scot_th_rock Junior Member Join Date: June 8, 2012 Posts: 7	Update: When I initially installed my Kirst converter in my 1858 Remington I had fitting and timing issues. I had to shorten hand about a millimeter at a time until it advanced the cylinder into the correct position for the locking lug to engage. Additionally I had to taper the locking lug a bit to fit into the locking notch on the cylinder. That and adjusted the timing spring tension. I also had to take about a millimeter off the flat plate the sits in the frame and is the back of the cylinder with the load gate. Out of the box it sat too high in the frame and caused the cylinder pin to bind and would not advance. Once those adjustments were made it cycles perfectly. Thank you everyone for your input and advice. Thanks to you all this thing is ready to knock over some cans!