The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 4, 2020, 11:52 AM   #26
buck460XVR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 4,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds357 View Post

I have seen deer bolt and deer trot off. I have never noticed any relationship to what they were shot with.
Same here. Seems to relate more to where the deer is hit and if it is relaxed or alerted when shot. High shoulder shots tend to make deer bolt backward and gut shots tend to make deer hunch up. I've had deer that were relaxed and feeding, go back to feeding after being shot behind the shoulders and thru the boiler room, only to start to stagger and fall dead shortly after.
buck460XVR is offline  
Old July 4, 2020, 12:14 PM   #27
Double K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 194
One class of cartridges kills instantly nearly all the time in my experience, the big 6.5's, the 264 win mag drops deer and antelope like they've been electrocuted. It doesn't without a cost though, bloodshot meat and 500rd barrel life.
My current gun is a 6.5prc, seems like a nice compromise between performance and excess. I've only shot 2 animals with it and it did well, this deer ran a little ways before dropping{40yds} but a blind man could follow the blood trail the 129 sst made.
Double K is offline  
Old July 4, 2020, 12:41 PM   #28
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 5,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double K View Post
One class of cartridges kills instantly nearly all the time in my experience, the big 6.5's, the 264 win mag drops deer and antelope like they've been electrocuted. It doesn't without a cost though, bloodshot meat and 500rd barrel life.
My current gun is a 6.5prc, seems like a nice compromise between performance and excess. I've only shot 2 animals with it and it did well, this deer ran a little ways before dropping{40yds} but a blind man could follow the blood trail the 129 sst made.
I have had a 264 Win mag or two at all times for the last 35 years. I love them. With a good stainless barrel, they are good for over 1000, rounds for a hunting rifle. The rifle might start to ever so slightly open up at around 750 rounds, but still sub moa to past 1000. With the orig non stainless win. factory barrels, 500 was probably about right.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old July 4, 2020, 01:22 PM   #29
Double K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 194
I never had a problem with the accuracy with the three 264's I had just the velocity, after 500rds it would drop 100fps, I'd up the load, it would drop again by the time a good zero was gotten and so on. You could see the throat erosion without a borescope.
They were all chrome moly barrels though, last one I had was a Remington Classic the year it came out 1986. I used a heavy load of IMR 7828 with 120 nosler bt's to get 3450fps, that was a real barrel burner but an incredible long range load. Maximum point blank range was 420yds with that load/bullet.
Not that remarkable today with cartridges like the 6.5x300 weatherby and 26 nosler using really high bc bullets but in it's day....
With the barrel steels available today they should last longer, it would be interesting to see a definitive test.
Double K is offline  
Old July 4, 2020, 01:33 PM   #30
Double K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 194
I bought a Sauer Atacama last year right before antelope season, worked up a load and took it hunting, still looking for a pound of RL26 which is supposed to be thee powder for 6.5prc.


Double K is offline  
Old July 4, 2020, 04:39 PM   #31
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds357 View Post
I guess I do my fair share of "shooting" then. Its been over 30 years since I have not killed a medium or large game animal I shot.
If someone gave you a live prime steer with the stipulation you must shoot it but could not shoot it in the head, how far back would you get, and what angle would you shoot it? Would you use a quartering shot through the front shoulders or a quartering shot through the back hip? Would you shoot it through the shoulder with the bullet exiting out the off shoulder?

My point is that, given a head shot is chancy on a game animal, the next best shot with the least meat damage is behind the shoulder, through the ribs. Why so many hunters are willing to trade meat damage for what appears to be bragging rights in taking a game animal has always been a mystery to me. To someone like me who grew up in poverty, wasting meat by shooting through the best portions is indefensible.
dahermit is offline  
Old July 4, 2020, 06:01 PM   #32
Double K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 194
dahermit

About the time the 260 remington came out nosler introduced a 100gr ballistic tip billed as a medium game bullet.
Is shot a small antelope buck 4 times with them at under 200yds, everyone of them either blew up on the shoulder or ribs, I ended up killing him with a 22 pistol.
I wrote a nasty email to nosler, I heard later they put a thicker jacket on the 100gr. bt's
My point is that it does matter what bullet you use even on thin skinned game like pronghorns on broadside shots.
Double K is offline  
Old July 4, 2020, 10:07 PM   #33
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 5,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahermit View Post
If someone gave you a live prime steer with the stipulation you must shoot it but could not shoot it in the head, how far back would you get, and what angle would you shoot it? Would you use a quartering shot through the front shoulders or a quartering shot through the back hip? Would you shoot it through the shoulder with the bullet exiting out the off shoulder?

My point is that, given a head shot is chancy on a game animal, the next best shot with the least meat damage is behind the shoulder, through the ribs. Why so many hunters are willing to trade meat damage for what appears to be bragging rights in taking a game animal has always been a mystery to me. To someone like me who grew up in poverty, wasting meat by shooting through the best portions is indefensible.
I dont disagree with you, but lets look at it this way:
Its in prime rut. A big buck is chasing a doe. He is going away at a slight angle. The only reason I am shooting him is that he is a trophy. Its rutting and will taste like junk anyway. Best case, he makes jerky. Worst case, he feeds my hunting dogs. So, if the best shot I get is straight up the but, I will let the 7 Rum, 7 WSM, or 257 Wby work its magic.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old July 4, 2020, 10:13 PM   #34
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 5,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double K View Post
About the time the 260 remington came out nosler introduced a 100gr ballistic tip billed as a medium game bullet.
Is shot a small antelope buck 4 times with them at under 200yds, everyone of them either blew up on the shoulder or ribs, I ended up killing him with a 22 pistol.
I wrote a nasty email to nosler, I heard later they put a thicker jacket on the 100gr. bt's
My point is that it does matter what bullet you use even on thin skinned game like pronghorns on broadside shots.
When the 7mm ballistic tip first came out, I had a similar experience with 7 Rem mag on a large buck.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old July 5, 2020, 05:22 AM   #35
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 15,369
I've seen more deer lost with small and fast than I have with big and slow. I used a 30-06 with 180 grain soft points most of my life. I now like 165 grain Nosler ballistic tips better.
Hawg is offline  
Old July 5, 2020, 06:44 AM   #36
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds357 View Post
I dont disagree with you, but lets look at it this way:
Its in prime rut. A big buck is chasing a doe. He is going away at a slight angle. The only reason I am shooting him is that he is a trophy. Its rutting and will taste like junk anyway. Best case, he makes jerky. Worst case, he feeds my hunting dogs. So, if the best shot I get is straight up the but, I will let the 7 Rum, 7 WSM, or 257 Wby work its magic.
In Alaska they have a law (Wanton Waste), where in they cite a person for willfully wasting meat of game animals. The scenario you describe is arguably wanton waste.

I have never had a deer that tasted bad...certainly none that would require feeding to the dogs. It is frequently said that one has to know how to cook deer meat. As evidenced by the fact that most people in my area reduce deer to summer sausage instead of using the meat fresh, they do not. But that is no reason to intentionally take a shot that destroys the meat. If the "shooter" had not taken the shot in your scenario, maybe the next hunter would have treated that treasure trove of meat differently as well as collecting a trophy.
dahermit is offline  
Old July 5, 2020, 08:43 AM   #37
Double K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 194
It's possible to get a deer that's inedible but in my experience very rare.
I shot a young whitetail buck about 25 years ago that was so gamey my neighbors at the time complained when I grilled it outside. The deer didn't look any different, it was a one shot kill, nothing extraordinary about it. My wife and I've probably killed and eaten 30 deer from the same tree stand that tasted wonderful. I had to feed that deer to the neighborhood dogs, it's rare but happens. btw I've never had an old buck that the loins or rounds didn't taste good, grind the rest and either make sausage or heavily seasoned burger.

All that being said the family and I love wild game meats so what we think is just great may not be to someone else.
Double K is offline  
Old July 5, 2020, 09:18 AM   #38
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double K View Post
It's possible to get a deer that's inedible but in my experience very rare.
I shot a young whitetail buck about 25 years ago that was so gamey my neighbors at the time complained when I grilled it outside. The deer didn't look any different, it was a one shot kill, nothing extraordinary about it. My wife and I've probably killed and eaten 30 deer from the same tree stand that tasted wonderful. I had to feed that deer to the neighborhood dogs, it's rare but happens. btw I've never had an old buck that the loins or rounds didn't taste good, grind the rest and either make sausage or heavily seasoned burger.

All that being said the family and I love wild game meats so what we think is just great may not be to someone else.
Grilling deer meat is not a good way of preparing it. It is no wonder that you thought it was "gamey".

If you had taken the same piece of deer meat, cut into 1/2 inch (no thicker) strips, floured them and fried them until the pink is just about to disappear, eat it warm (some dip in ketchup) I can assure you that your attitude about deer meat would change.

In short, the problem is not that some Whitetail deer are "gamey", the problem is, as I have stated, is that you and many others do not know how to cook it.
dahermit is offline  
Old July 5, 2020, 09:27 AM   #39
Double K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 194
Whatever, the only red meat we eat at my house is venison and like I said earlier it's almost never gamey.
As far as me not knowing how to cook you have no idea about my cooking skills.
Smoked antelope meatloaf.


Deer loin steaks with bacon wrapped peppers grilled to perfection.
Double K is offline  
Old July 5, 2020, 09:52 AM   #40
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,869
Whitetail Deer roast:

Take any large piece of deer meat and place it in the center of a large piece of Aluminum foil.

Dot the top with small pieces of Butter.

Squeeze the juice of an entire lemon over the meat.

Sprinkle a full envelope of Lipton's Onion Soup mix (not the smaller "recipe" size).

Seal the roast in the foil and bake at .350 degrees in a shallow pan in your oven.

When the roast is done, open the foil, scrape the juices and and the remnants of the onion soup mix into a sauce pan and make gravy with it.

Let the roast "rest" as you make gravy.

Slice the roast (I always bone-out deer meat), into 1/4 inch slices.

Place the slices on a plate and pour the Onion/Lemon gravy over the meat (important!) and over your mashed potatoes.

Note that this recipe does NOT WORK with beef...the meat must have that characteristic "wild" taste (very similar to lamb), in order for that recipe to work.

Stop shooting deer in the shoulders, neck (bone the neck out for a roast), hips, etc. And stop wasting good deer meat by reducing it to Summer sausage...it is just too damned tastey to waste it like that.

Years ago, when in my bachelor days, my brother called me and invited me to dinner. I told him that I already had a deer roast in the oven (as above). He thought that I just did not want to come for dinner. I told him that was not the case...I really did have a roast in the oven. To which he said...when it is done, bring it down and I will have my wife make mashed potatoes.

When I got there and his wife made gravy (as in the recipe above), the three of us fell upon that gravy laden roast and mashed potatoes. We ended up eating the entire roast. When we pushed our chairs back and realized what we had done, my brother charctoristly, with his mock seriousness said, "That was not fit for pigs!"
dahermit is offline  
Old July 5, 2020, 01:01 PM   #41
huntinaz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 21, 2010
Location: az
Posts: 1,319
It’s always interesting to see other perspective. I’m glad people have different opinions and think independently, it’s how we develop new stuff

I think grilled venison with marrow bones is alright, for instance:


I used to be tied down to the way my dad did it because that’s what was “right”

Now I sometimes do things differently. For instance I like to shoot small deer through the shoulders with a 180gr Accubond from a 300WSM. I’m always amazed at how little meat loss I get with this combo. The heavy bullet transfers energy more slowly instead of all at once so messy splash wounds are rare. I butcher my own stuff so I know that from this shot I lost at most 1 package of burger and half a heart. This was a 90lb coues buck. I understand most people would describe this method as unconventional. However I have a color blindness that prevents me from seeing blood trails without snow so I find shoulder shots to be the cats ass, for lack of a better term. This one went exactly down, which is why I shot him there:




Besides, speaking of wasting stuff, if I shoot them a bit too far back with an explosive bullet and I might waste the liver. Which would be a shame, to miss out on educational and delicious meals with my daughters






The deal is though, light/fast and slow/heavy are both effective ways to kill stuff. Some prefer one over the other which is great. At the risk of being unpopular, I think both can be tailored to your style of hunting and to your table needs without much disrespect
__________________
"When there’s lead in the air, there’s hope in the heart”- Hunter’s Proverb
"Feed me, or feed me to something. I just want to be part of the food chain." -Al Bundy

Last edited by huntinaz; July 5, 2020 at 01:09 PM.
huntinaz is offline  
Old July 5, 2020, 08:31 PM   #42
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 5,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahermit View Post
In Alaska they have a law (Wanton Waste), where in they cite a person for willfully wasting meat of game animals. The scenario you describe is arguably wanton waste.

I have never had a deer that tasted bad...certainly none that would require feeding to the dogs. It is frequently said that one has to know how to cook deer meat. As evidenced by the fact that most people in my area reduce deer to summer sausage instead of using the meat fresh, they do not. But that is no reason to intentionally take a shot that destroys the meat. If the "shooter" had not taken the shot in your scenario, maybe the next hunter would have treated that treasure trove of meat differently as well as collecting a trophy.
Processing a deer and using the meat for some purpose is not even borderline illegal. Leaving the animal unprocessed to rot is what is illegal. I know how to butcher and cook deer. The 6 to 10 does my family eat each year are evidence of that. I dont like the way a rutting buck tastes. Never have. Never will.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old July 6, 2020, 05:18 AM   #43
jackstrawIII
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2016
Location: Upstate NY.
Posts: 674
Somehow this became a recipe thread?

Thanks for all the input, but let’s get back to the bullet weight/speed question.
__________________
In God we trust.
jackstrawIII is offline  
Old July 6, 2020, 09:40 AM   #44
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,705
Between the 243 and 358 win, I'll take the 308 win w/165gr Hornady interlock.
Don Fischer is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11139 seconds with 9 queries