Reloading footprint?

[Shootin Chef]

So, the title pretty much sums up my question. How much of an area do you really need to reload your own ammunition? Is it something I can/should do in my home or is a building outside or garage the thing you should have?

I skimmed the New Reloader thread to make sure I wasn't asking something that was already answered and didn't see it, so I figured I was safe to post my question.

Thanks!
Chef

[dmazur]

I've seen reloading setups that vary from something that transports in a box to be used at the range to elaborate "man caves" that occupy half a finished basement.

While I sometimes envy those who have separate rooms (or buildings), I manage to reload with

1. A Dillon 550b press that bolts to one end of a solid-core door that I use as a general purpose table in an upstairs office (converted bedroom.) The press and several toolheads store in a nearby closet on a shelf I built for this. There is also storage for primers on a shelf.

2. A tumbler and case trimmer (both of which are motorized and noisy) that I use on my workbench, in the garage. They store under the bench when not in use.

3. Bullets and cases are also stored in the garage, in plastic bags or boxes on shelves.

4. Powder is stored in an approved metal "powder magazine", that holds around 20 lbs.

So, while I couldn't find room for a dedicated reloading area that would have all of the above in one spot, I managed to find enough storage space in several different areas to make it work. All I have to do is plan each reloading session so I can collect the components I need, and I find I don't spend that much time running around.

The exercise is probably good for me, anyway...

[Shootin Chef]

So, if I understand your setup correctly. You tumble and trim brass in the garage, then take your bullets/brass/cases to your converted bedroom and do your loading there. Correct?

A few other questions, if you don't mind.
The big one I have is that I'm unsure about reloading presses. Will one press and multiple dies let me load different calibers, or are presses already set to a specific caliber? Perhaps some allow me to change while others are set? If that's the case, how do I tell the difference?

Are progressive loaders electric? Do they require monitoring or is it a "set it and forget it" type deal?
Is tumbling required? (a tumbler is not mentioned in the "Equipment Basics" sticky thread)
In today's economy is reloading still cheaper to purchasing boxes when it comes to target shooting or non-long range matches, such as handgun?

Is there a specific type of storage that black powder requires?

I know, I know, I ask a lot of questions but I love learning!
Chef

[zippy13]

I have 4 progressive MEC shotshell loaders, a Dillon 550 metallic shell loader and Lyman sizer/lubricator and none is permanently mounted. They are all on 12" squares of particleboard. A 12 x 30" particleboard rectangle serves as the base (to resist overturning) with a section of 1 1/2" ID steel pipe between two floor flanges bolted to the particle board.

All you really need is one base and pipe column -- just swap the head units -- and it's much less costly than Midway's unit. I've reinforced the base board with an additional 12" square that I glued in place before bolting the floor flange. I can locate my presses anywhere, or take them outside for a good cleaning.

I knew one shooter who built his reloading bench in the dead-end of a 24" deep closet. Another had a dedicated reloading room off of his garage. What really consumes the space isn't the actual loading equipment, but the fruits of your reloading labors. NFPA 495, 2010, Chapter 14, allows the storage of up to 50# of powder, 150,000 primers and unlimited ammo if properly stored.

[Shootin Chef]

Zippy, I appreciate the picture, but I'm not really understanding how that works?

I'm assuming you bolt the press to the small upper square of plywood and the bottom one keeps the force of you pushing the bullet home into the brass from tipping it all over? Or do you have to stand on it to make sure it doesn't go anywhere?
And you built one of these for each of your loaders or you just swap them out as you need them?
If it's bolted to the bottom particle board, how is it level? Do you use a special bolt to carry all the downward pressure without ripping through the board?

[dmazur]

Yes, the presses allow reloading different cartridges (calibers) by changing die sets. Most die sets are "universal" 7/8x14 thread, but there are a few exceptions that only fit one press. (Dillon Square Deal) You can tell the difference by reading the manuals. Most of the manufacturers have them in pdf format, downloaded for no charge. If the manual says, "Accepts 7/8x14 dies", then you know they aren't proprietary.

The progressive loaders used by non-commercial reloaders aren't electric.

Monitoring? That isn't even the beginning of the answer. All reloading has to be done with a temporary obsessive-compulsive mindset, if you want to have all your parts intact when you shoot the product of your efforts. You have to 1) understand the process completely, 2) understand your equipment completely, and 3) do quality control checks to make sure you are "on track". The first time you have to disassemble 500 rds because you made a mistake will be more educational than any reading you can do in advance...

A tumbler is not mandatory, but it will prolong the life of your dies by keeping dirt from the cases out of them. If you don't reload "range brass", you can probably get along without a tumbler.

Reloading is cheaper than factory ammo, as the brass case can be reloaded many, many times and the brass case is relatively expensive. With low-pressure pistol ammo, some reloaders get 30 to 50 or more reloadings. The case mouth eventually splits, or the brass simply gets lost. With rifle ammo deliberately loaded to maximums, reloading may be limited to 4 or 5 cycles.

However, it is misleading to think that reloading will save money. The truth is that you can craft ammo to do what you want, and you can shoot more rounds for the same cost. I believe very few reloaders who "budgeted" $250/month for ammo cut that after getting into reloading. Instead, they now shoot twice as much for the same $250/month cost.

Black powder is something I know very little about. I believe true black powder is far more dangerous to handle than smokeless powder. I've read about special brass drop tubes to handle the problems of static electricity.

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm....reloading.html

Hopefully this answered some of your questions.

[dmazur]

I didn't answer the question about black powder storage. I believe you are supposed to have something like

http://www.cabelas.com/reloading-com...tainer-2.shtml

for storing either smokeless or black powder. I see many pictures of reloader's dens with smokeless powder on shelves or under benches. Because smokeless powder is very easy to handle, I think folks just ignore storage requirements. After all, gasoline is more dangerous than smokeless powder.

True black powder is far more dangerous to handle safely than smokeless powder. You want to store it in such a way that static electricity cannot go through the powder container. Thus, the requirement for a metal "magazine", to hold the powder containers.

Does everyone who reloads with black powder have one of these? Probably not. That doesn't make it a bad idea to have one...

[BDS-THR]

Shooting Chef, here's a thread that talks about smaller reloading bench.

I have built many portable benches with casters for other reloaders and they work great. Some 2x4s, OSB, caster wheels (I use the ones from HF furniture moving dolly) and you got a reloading bench you can use anywhere in the house (warm and toasty in the winter and cool in the summer). I usually watch TV as I deprime/resize cases but move the bench into my reloading room to reload early on weekend mornings around 5 AM while everyone's sleeping so I won't be distracted.

[Shootin Chef]

So most reloaders use smokeless and not black powder? See I wasn't aware of that, thank you. That bin you showed me is extremely expensive for something I could probably wield together in half an hour... is there something special about it?

BDS thank you for the thread link, I'm off to read it now. I'm glad to know part of this is something I can do while watching tv, because I have a need to constantly keep my hands busy.

[BigJimP]

I have my shop in my basement - and while most of it is for woodworking / I have a small portion set up for my reloading equipment. Here are a couple of photos - that will help explain my setup / sq footage.

I reload for shotshells in 4 gagues and for metallic in several handgun calibers. In about 8' X 3' of floor space, I have room for my metallic, a Dillon 650 with the case feeder on it ( the blue one ) - and a pair of hydraulic MEC shotshell loaders for 12ga and 28ga ....

The cabinet under my Dillon loader ( the blue one ) will hold powder, bullets, primers, etc - and the cabinet over the shotshell loaders will hold primers, powder, some tools, etc . The drawers in the cabinet under the Dillon will hold a variety of tools for the loader. On the other wall you can see the 20ga loader and the .410 loader - waiting their turn.

If I just had the one space for metallic ( the blue press ) it would only occupy about 36" wide X 24" deep ..... with the case feeder on top of the press ( case feeder is electric ) it needs about 5' of height ( you have to have room to dump the cases into the top of the case feeder.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...6&d=1296760035

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...7&d=1296760035

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...8&d=1296760035

Shop July 08 009.jpg

[BigJimP]

Now, you can do it with less space - or even keep it portable. If you wanted to mount a press to a 2" X 24" X 36" plank ..... you can then move it around / and clamp it to a portable work bench ( like the old WorkMate benches ) or even clamp it to some sawhorses with a plywood top.

There are lots of ways to do it...

Its a luxury to have dedicated space, like in a shop / where I can cover my loaders when I'm making a lot of dust ...but the loaders stay where they are, virtually read to load at any time. But I also don't have kids running around / lots of grandkids - but they behave when I tell them their little toes stop at the threshold of my shop .... noone enters, without an adult ..(me) / and when the kids are around, especially the teenage grandkids, I keep the shop locked ....and the circuit breakers off for all my major tools ...and the box locked.

But you don't need a lot of room..

[wncchester]

Chef, first thing you need to do is buy a reloading manual and read the newbie section in front. Get a Lyman, Lee, Hornady or Sierra manual, they all have good illustrations of each step and good instructions on how to do it. The books will answer a LOT of your questions much more clearly than we can.

The simplist and most practical "footprint" for an apartment dweller with little space for a permanent set-up would be a cheap, folding Black & Decker "Work Mate" workbench from Home Dept or Lowes. Get a 2 ft x 3 ft. piece of 3/4" plywood that you can mount your press on and clamp it in the Work Mate, When you stop you can take the top off, fold the bench and put it all in a closet.

All private reloader presses are manually operated. All conventional presses use interchangeable dies and shell holders so dies, presses and shell holdes can be mixed by brand or caliber but we must have caliber specfic dies for each of our guns.

Presses? Lots of well intended guys point a noob in the direction the poster prefers rather than what the OP really needs. Fact is, you should get a single stage press first. No noob needs the agrivation, frustration and confusion of dealing with a turret or - especially - a progressive while he's trying to learn the basics of reloading. Most of us NEVER need anything more fancy or costly/bulky than a simple single stage press.

What press you end up with after a few years will be largely determined by the volumes you want to shoot each month. If a box or two is all you need, a single stage will do you forever. If you need five hundred a month an auto-indexing turret press like Lee's Cast Turret will do nicely. If you shoot a thousand or so a month you will certainly benefit from a progressive, otherwise getting a progressive is both costly and pointless. Changing calibers in a single stage and turret is easy, changing in a progressive is a PITA.

Case tumblers are NOT neccessary to properly reload, nor are they even needed; polished cases are eye candy only. I do it but I don't kid myself that it does a thing to the finished product. It's not necessary to polish cases before we can detect splits either. We all cleaned our cases by wiping or, if they were actually "dirty", by swishing them in a container of soap and water for years before tumblers came along.

[BigJimP]

I disagree with wnnchester a little .... about progressive presses..

All reloading - takes an attitude of absolute control over your processes / and an attention to detail !! If you don't have that ability - then don't start reloading !! It is not a part of our hobby - where close is ok ( close might cost you a blown up gun, or a bad injury, or worse ...)...

A progressive press is not a bad press / or dangerous in and of itself ... but like any tool you need to understand it / know how it operates and what its doing in every stage. Its no different than a single stage - in that respect / you have to understand them as well. In fact, I will academically argue - that because a single stage press becomes so tedious .... you might be prone to making mistakes with it too.

I don't think a progressive press is a bad option for a newbie / that is serious about this part of the hobby. You have to be the judge of your own attitudes / and whether you want to get into this part of the hobby or not. My best analogy ...is you need to take an "engineering perspective" to reloading ....and analyze every step / every adjustment / every choice of component ....read, and read some more ....especially the loader manual that will come with the press...and read it some more. If there are 10 steps, go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 .....and if someone interrupts you .....don't go to 6 ...go back to 1, 2, 3, etc ....every time ......( and you'll find its very easy / very satisfying part of our shooting hobby ).

None of us really save money / we just shoot more ...and we justify it. I was at my range last nite ...with 3 boxes of .357 mag / 4 boxes of 9mm, 2 boxes of .45 acp ....about $60 in ammo in 9 boxes ( 450 rds ) ( and 4 different guns ) had a great time .... / guy shooting next to me ..... paid about $75 retail for 3 boxes or 150 rds of .380 and shot for 45 min and was done. I hung out there for a few hours / went and had a beer and pizza for another $20 ....and shot 3 times as much ammo as the guy next to me ...( and had a better time, I think ) But its not about saving money ...its about having some fun ...

[Shootin Chef]

BigJim, wncchester, Thank you both for your well thought out and informative replies. I'm beginning to think a single stage might be what I need at this point, because I have no reloading experience and honestly can barely only figure out how the things work from looking at the pictures. The progressives I have seem come across as very intimidating, with all the parts sticking out at various angles doing Lord knows what for you.
I do have a classic Lee Loader box for .38 that I came across while cleaning out my grandparents playroom. It had to have been dad's when he was with the highway patrol. I keep meaning to ask him about it but I forget. It doesn't contain any information inside really, so I'm not sure how I would use it.

I have two possible spaces in my house that I could use, one of which has no outlets in it, hence why I asked if progressives were electric. The other is a dining room that I'm to young to use for actual dining but is practically the center of the whole house, which is why I asked if doing all this inside is ok.

BigJim thank you for the outline of your night, that's pretty much exactly what I would like. More shooting for the money. It seems to have some high start up costs but you save in the end, and the earlier I start the sooner I save (in terms of cost per round).

Chef

[BigJimP]

Over 10 yrs or so ....the cost of the setup will long be gone ...../ but sure, it is a factor.

I reloaded for years in an apt for awhile / and in smaller houses ...in garages, etc .... where I didn't have a lot of room / with the portable setup that we discussed.

The other issue here / not more important than doing it right and accurately - is the time it takes to load 10 boxes of ammo or 500 rds. On a single stage press it might be 5 hours .... on a big progressive with a case feeder its about 30 minutes. We all lead busy lives / lots of demands on our time ....even old guys like me..../ so the time is a factor ....but most of us load in spurts .....loading up 3,000 rds of a specific caliber ...( 60 boxes ) and then we just draw from inventory as we go to the range, etc ....

[semi_problomatic]

Take a look at the reloading benches pics. Brilliant ideas there.

[wncchester]

"I don't think a progressive press is a bad option for a newbie /"

Reloading is easy, even I can do it. But it wasn't so easy at first, that was several decades ago but I haven't forgotten it.

Its my guess that the Chef is working on his own as I did, no guidance. I firmly believe that learning to reload on a single stage will allow him to master the process safely because he will be MUCH more in control with one case doing one thing at a time instead of watching four cases doing different strange things simultaneously and at the same time!

Plus, changing calibers on a progressive is a PITA for most anyone.

Therefore, I agree that we disagree!

[zippy13]

Shootin Chef,
>Zippy, I appreciate the picture, but I'm not really understanding how that works?
Here's a pic of the base attachment. When I built it, I considered using plastic pipe of a few sizes larger.

>I'm assuming you bolt the press to the small upper square of plywood and the bottom one keeps the force of you pushing the bullet home into the brass from tipping it all over?
Correct.

>Or do you have to stand on it to make sure it doesn't go anywhere?
Actually I reload seated with the base between the chair legs, you can rest your feet on the board.

>And you built one of these for each of your loaders or you just swap them out as you need them?
Only one base. If you look at the right side of the column base you'll see where I put in a set screw. There's a similar set screw at the top, too.

>If it's bolted to the bottom particle board, how is it level?
>Do you use a special bolt to carry all the downward pressure without ripping through the board?
I used 1/4"ø flat head machine screws and counter bored the holes a pinch so they are flush with the surface.

[armoredman]

Converted TV stand holds tools, press, boxes, bullets, etc. Powder in a tool box/powder magazine, primers in the closet top shelf, tumbler right next to the TV stand, casting stuff has its own end table in the garage. Just the reloading stuff, not counting the casting set up, takes up maybe half again the space of the TV stand, because so much of it stores inside the thing.

[Shootin Chef]

Zippy, maybe I'm over-estimating the force required to seat a bullet into a case. It just seems to me that the plywood at the screw heads would begin to tear. Thank you for breaking it down for me though, it really became clear.

wncchester you're correct, I will be working on my own with no guidance (unless I find someone later). I'm a quick learner but a little bit nervous about doing something on my own that could potentially (literally) blow up in my face.

BigJim, I'm not so much worried about the time. I can sit and watch tv while trimming brass and sorting out things, then do a box of rounds, do something else, come back for another box, rinse and repeat until I run out of material or feel I've done enough. I read a lot so I'm used to sitting and focusing on something for long stretches of time.

Chef

[Jim243]

[M.O.A.]

all my reloading stuff fits in a ammo box behind my couch but it is a lee handloader lol

[Stargazer]

26 years ago I was apartment bound but had purchased an RCBS RockChucker kit for reloading. I needed a sturdy table to do this on so I went about gathering material to build one. I found a section of plywood that was two sheets of exterior plywood glued together and used for a sign at a furniture store. It was out back in the dumpster so I took care of it for them. I purchased new 2x4's and long bolts with large washers and nuts. I built a sturdy table that breaks down when it is needed to be moved. The two wooden grenade boxes "used" to hold ALL of my reloading gear as well. Added shelves to them and turned them upright to create cabinets with doors. I still use this setup once a week. The footprint is pretty small and occupies just one wall of a bedroom. I have shelves above the table now that hold loaded ammo and supplies.

[zippy13]

Zippy, maybe I'm over-estimating the force required to seat a bullet into a case. It just seems to me that the plywood at the screw heads would begin to tear.

Yes, there is some deflection, but I've never worried about the connections failing. If it concerns you, then you could use a larger diameter column. Or, you could make it more elaborate and replace the column with sides and some internal shelves, but it would be a lot heavier.

[Everettstiles]

Nimrod:

In past years I've sat in motel rooms w/ a single-stage press clamped to the desk in the room and loaded thousands of rounds. Keep the stuff in the back floor-board of the car.

For a permanent setup, the best, most space-efficient place I've found and used in a couple of houses is under the stairwell, either in the basement (if dry) or on the main floor. Close in underneath the stairwell, add a door, and it's out of sight. Nail a strong timber to the studs and fasten a piece of cabinet top over that. If you have 6 in stud wall, installing thin slats gives you all the shelf space you'll likely need for bullets, dies, & whatever. A press bolts to one side of the bench. A Lee shotshell loader fits between two studs on the other side. Rifles can be hung horizontally on wooden pegs up and down the wall. Plenty of room for dead storage underneath the bench. Two 1 x 4's protruding low down from the wall w/ notches to fit a rifle provides a convenient holder to run a cleaning rod down the barrell. It works.