Mushroomed .223 cases

Azul69 · May 15, 2019, 12:16 PM

I am using a Lee Loadmaster that I recently got, and while on my first attempt to reload I am finding at the end of the process some of the cases are mushroomed below the shoulders. I also find that after decap and resize some of the necks are rounded in so that a bullet cannot sit in it.

Any ideas on what is causing this problem? And please don't tell my to go buy a Dillon.

Sevens · May 15, 2019, 12:28 PM

If I had to guess, I'd say that your bullet seater die is screwed too far in to the press. Not the knob on top of the die, but the entire die body itself.

I believe it is attempting to crimp the case, but FAR too much.

Twirl it out one full turn, and turn the knob -IN- one full turn to compensate for the setting of the bullet seater.

T. O'Heir · May 15, 2019, 01:08 PM

"...screwed too far in to the press..." Yep. Happens to all of us. The seater or the sizer die is down too far. That's likely the issue with the necks too. It's crimping when it shouldn't.
The shell holder should just kiss the bottom of the dies with the ram all the way up. Then you adjust the expander/decapper so it just pops the old primer out. The seating plug is adjusted to give the required OAL. Use the Max OAL given in your manual. You do not fiddle with the Off the Lands until you have a load.

thegatman · May 15, 2019, 01:20 PM

Read the instructions for the die set.

IMtheNRA · May 15, 2019, 01:44 PM

Azul, your seating die is screwed in too far. It is applying a heavy taper crimp while you're seating a bullet.

Install an empty sized, trimmed case and very slowly lower the seating die on it without a bullet. Keep unscrewing the seating die until you no longer feel it contact the empty case mouth. This will stop the crimping action of the die, which is what is collapsing your cases.

I'm assuming that all your brass does not exceed maximum case length.

P-990 · May 15, 2019, 02:32 PM

Another comment to say your seating die is adjusted in too far. Re-read the instructions, but it needs to be backed out.

Also, are you using the Powder Thru die to charge the cases when you find the case mouths won't accept bullets? I'm assuming the answer is YES. Again, it needs to be backed out. You want it screwed in far enough to just move the charge bar to the end of it's travel to charge the case, and no more. I've done exactly what you describe setting that die up on my PRO 1000. Just turning it out a bit should solve the issue.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Azul69 · May 15, 2019, 04:37 PM

I think your right, i'm working on adjusting the charging die now

Azul69 · May 15, 2019, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegatman

Read the instructions for the die set.

Wow, the wisdom there is just astounding! I never would have thought of that.

P-990 · May 15, 2019, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azul69

Wow, the wisdom there is just astounding! I never would have thought of that.

Here's something I find helpful when adjusting a seating/crimp die for the first time: back off the seating stem, place a case in the shell holder position, then screw the die body into place until you feel it contact the case (or maybe you see the case spin). Back it off a full turn from here. You should have enough adjustment on the seating stem to dial in your OAL from there. And you avoid having the crimp setting crush your cases.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

PA-Joe · May 15, 2019, 05:14 PM

Another question is, are you using a chamfer tool to debur the inside and outside edge of the case mouth?

" I also find that after decap and resize some of the necks are rounded in so that a bullet cannot sit in it."

You have to remove the burs and rounding before trying to seat a bullet. The bullet should just sit inside the case mouth.

Azul69 · May 15, 2019, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA-Joe

Another question is, are you using a chamfer tool to debur the inside and outside edge of the case mouth?

" I also find that after decap and resize some of the necks are rounded in so that a bullet cannot sit in it."

You have to remove the burs and rounding before trying to seat a bullet. The bullet should just sit inside the case mouth.

yes I do chamfer and debur the cases. They went in looking good and ended up being rounded. I think it was the charging die, since adjusting it I haven't had any problems.

mehavey · May 16, 2019, 05:26 AM

The 223 does not need to be crimped. Standard neck tension is sufficient (even desirable).

Soooo.....

1. With the seating die screwed out of the press (and seating stem also backed way off), put an empty/resized case in the press and run the ram up all the way.

2. Screw the seating die down until you feel it juuuuuust contact the case, then (w/ Lee) you can either just leave it there, or (suggested) back off at least 1/2 turn. Lock it down.

3. At this point fill the case w/ desired powder charge, run it up into the die, screw the seating stem down to seat bullet at desired OAL ... . and lock it down as well

Azul69 · May 16, 2019, 07:54 AM

Thanks for all the helpful info. I seem to have corrected my case issues. Now, for a new post on other things that grind my gears.

HiBC · May 31, 2019, 04:00 PM

On Grinding your gears...Push in the clutch. If you have a non-synchro first,come to a stop before you try to put it in gear.

Actually,selecting proper gear oil can help your synchros.

If you have a full crash box non synchro transmission

You have to learn Love.
You can use the clutch if you want. Or not. You can double clutch downshifting.

But if you can do the Love thing...its all in matching the RPMs and timing and touch.
Long ago I had a 52 Ford Pickup with a trans like that.

Paul B. · June 1, 2019, 04:48 PM

The OP stated that, "Some of the cases have mushroomed etc." First thought that came to mind was some of the brass, if not all needs to be trimmed to the proper length. If the case neck get too long, it may not open enough to release the bullets resulting in potentially dangerous high pressure. Might be worth looking into.
Paul B.

Reloadron · June 1, 2019, 05:29 PM

Clean the brass (Optional)
Size the brass (setup your sizing die according to manufacturer's instructions).
Trim your brass (223 Remington should have a trim to length of 1.750")

You want all of the brass uniform, as uniform as possible.

Quote:

I also find that after decap and resize some of the necks are rounded in so that a bullet cannot sit in it.

That would lead me to believe your cases are not uniform and you have a die run down too far. During sizing the last thing to happen is the case mouth expander ball is dragged up and out of the case mouth making it hard to figure out exactly how you can have a neck or case mouth rounded in? I don't see how you can get that result with a sizing die? Rounded in sounds like a roll crimp with a seating die.

What trim length are you using and are all of your cases the same length as only some are affected.

Ron

Mobuck · June 1, 2019, 08:46 PM

I don't see how a case can be "rounded in" after the neck expander is dragged through.

Azul69 · June 3, 2019, 07:37 AM

The problem was I am using the Lee Load Master Progressive press and the charging die was set too far down causing the mouth to push down.

Reloadron · June 3, 2019, 01:46 PM

Glad the problem is solved. However you clearly stated:

Quote:

I am using a Lee Loadmaster that I recently got, and while on my first attempt to reload I am finding at the end of the process some of the cases are mushroomed below the shoulders. I also find that after decap and resize some of the necks are rounded in so that a bullet cannot sit in it.

You made no mention of the powder through die? Yep, that would certainly do it. The more you load the better things will go.

Ron

May 15, 2019, 12:16 PM	#1
Azul69 Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2019 Posts: 13	Mushroomed .223 cases I am using a Lee Loadmaster that I recently got, and while on my first attempt to reload I am finding at the end of the process some of the cases are mushroomed below the shoulders. I also find that after decap and resize some of the necks are rounded in so that a bullet cannot sit in it. Any ideas on what is causing this problem? And please don't tell my to go buy a Dillon.

May 15, 2019, 12:28 PM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	If I had to guess, I'd say that your bullet seater die is screwed too far in to the press. Not the knob on top of the die, but the entire die body itself. I believe it is attempting to crimp the case, but FAR too much. Twirl it out one full turn, and turn the knob -IN- one full turn to compensate for the setting of the bullet seater. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

May 15, 2019, 01:08 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...screwed too far in to the press..." Yep. Happens to all of us. The seater or the sizer die is down too far. That's likely the issue with the necks too. It's crimping when it shouldn't. The shell holder should just kiss the bottom of the dies with the ram all the way up. Then you adjust the expander/decapper so it just pops the old primer out. The seating plug is adjusted to give the required OAL. Use the Max OAL given in your manual. You do not fiddle with the Off the Lands until you have a load. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 1, 2019, 04:48 PM	#15
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	The OP stated that, "Some of the cases have mushroomed etc." First thought that came to mind was some of the brass, if not all needs to be trimmed to the proper length. If the case neck get too long, it may not open enough to release the bullets resulting in potentially dangerous high pressure. Might be worth looking into. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

May 15, 2019, 01:20 PM	#4
thegatman Member Join Date: January 25, 2015 Posts: 61	Read the instructions for the die set.

May 15, 2019, 01:44 PM	#5
IMtheNRA Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2001 Posts: 298	Azul, your seating die is screwed in too far. It is applying a heavy taper crimp while you're seating a bullet. Install an empty sized, trimmed case and very slowly lower the seating die on it without a bullet. Keep unscrewing the seating die until you no longer feel it contact the empty case mouth. This will stop the crimping action of the die, which is what is collapsing your cases. I'm assuming that all your brass does not exceed maximum case length.

May 15, 2019, 02:32 PM	#6
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Only1/2WayThere Posts: 1,316	Another comment to say your seating die is adjusted in too far. Re-read the instructions, but it needs to be backed out. Also, are you using the Powder Thru die to charge the cases when you find the case mouths won't accept bullets? I'm assuming the answer is YES. Again, it needs to be backed out. You want it screwed in far enough to just move the charge bar to the end of it's travel to charge the case, and no more. I've done exactly what you describe setting that die up on my PRO 1000. Just turning it out a bit should solve the issue. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

May 15, 2019, 04:37 PM	#7
Azul69 Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2019 Posts: 13	I think your right, i'm working on adjusting the charging die now

May 15, 2019, 05:14 PM	#10
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	Another question is, are you using a chamfer tool to debur the inside and outside edge of the case mouth? " I also find that after decap and resize some of the necks are rounded in so that a bullet cannot sit in it." You have to remove the burs and rounding before trying to seat a bullet. The bullet should just sit inside the case mouth.

May 16, 2019, 05:26 AM	#12
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	The 223 does not need to be crimped. Standard neck tension is sufficient (even desirable). Soooo..... 1. With the seating die screwed out of the press (and seating stem also backed way off), put an empty/resized case in the press and run the ram up all the way. 2. Screw the seating die down until you feel it juuuuuust contact the case, then (w/ Lee) you can either just leave it there, or (suggested) back off at least 1/2 turn. Lock it down. 3. At this point fill the case w/ desired powder charge, run it up into the die, screw the seating stem down to seat bullet at desired OAL ... . and lock it down as well

May 16, 2019, 07:54 AM	#13
Azul69 Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2019 Posts: 13	Thanks for all the helpful info. I seem to have corrected my case issues. Now, for a new post on other things that grind my gears.

May 31, 2019, 04:00 PM	#14
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	On Grinding your gears...Push in the clutch. If you have a non-synchro first,come to a stop before you try to put it in gear. Actually,selecting proper gear oil can help your synchros. If you have a full crash box non synchro transmission You have to learn Love. You can use the clutch if you want. Or not. You can double clutch downshifting. But if you can do the Love thing...its all in matching the RPMs and timing and touch. Long ago I had a 52 Ford Pickup with a trans like that.

June 1, 2019, 08:46 PM	#17
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I don't see how a case can be "rounded in" after the neck expander is dragged through.

June 3, 2019, 07:37 AM	#18
Azul69 Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2019 Posts: 13	The problem was I am using the Lee Load Master Progressive press and the charging die was set too far down causing the mouth to push down.