Recommend me an AR15

[SamNavy]

There is an 11% tax on the purchase of complete AR15 rifles.

There is more to it. The Firearms and Ammunition Excise Tax (FAET) is what you are referring to. The FAET is sometimes mistakenly confused with the Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act of 1937 although it is a completely different piece of legislation. The FAWR (never called that) is more commonly referred to as the Pittman–Robertson Act.

The FAET includes an 11% excise tax on ALL LONG-GUNS AND AMMUNITION. Pistols and revolvers are 10%. The Pittman-Roberson Act then takes the money and distributes it for wildlife conservation/preservation/etc...

You can read about Pittman-Robertson here, but basically, the only reason there are wild places in America that have actual wildlife is because of the money we (gun-owning sportsman) pay in the form of this tax:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittma...estoration_Act

The FAET can be read about here:
https://www.ttb.gov/firearms/reference_guide.shtml

If you want your mind blown, read Section II, Subsets D&E. I'm not a lawyer, but essentially it says that a stripped lower sold by itself is not taxable. Individual parts that you buy at the same time as a stripped lower are also not taxable... unless you buy all the parts needed to build a "complete firearm". The definition of what list of parts constitutes a "complete firearm" according to the TTB is open to interpretation.

In any event, all the money from that tax means more delicious animals on the landscape.

There is a similar tax paid by fisherman on rods, tackle, marine fuel, etc... called the Federal Aid in Sport Fish Restoration Act... or Dingell-Johnson for short.
https://www.fws.gov/laws/lawsdigest/FASPORT.HTML

[GarandTd]

Thanks SamNavy. That is a very informative post. I had no idea.

[DaveBj]

The local range where I have just become a member has a "build your own AR-15" class, $550 ($525 for members). The "I want!" part of my brain immediately sprang into action when I saw that. My older son is also interested and may come up here to take the class with me in the fall.

(There will be a difference between our individual familiarities with the weapon. The last time I touched one -- M16, actually -- was in USAF basic 50 years ago; my son had 23 years in the Army and was armorer in at least one of his assigned units.)

D

[Fishbed77]

You can read about Pittman-Robertson here, but basically, the only reason there are wild places in America that have actual wildlife is because of the money we (gun-owning sportsman) pay in the form of this tax:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittma...estoration_Act

Not to get too far off-topic... I'm not saying this isn't a good use of tax money (as opposed to all the other bad uses), but not all gun owners are sportsmen and -women, and there is something fundamentally wrong with tying firearms purchases to this tax. My guess is a very large percentage of firearms today are not purchased for hunting or any other "sporting" use (nor should they have to be).

Perhaps this tax money should come instead from developers who destroy wildlife habitats? Or companies that pollute our air and waterways? Something to think about.

[GarandTd]

∆∆ I agree ∆∆

[riffraff]

Decide if you want iron sights or an optic, and stick with that unless you pickup a new upper - do not buy an iron sight upper then turn around and start adding goofy mounts to it to run a scope/optic or dumping all sorts of $$ into modifying a basic upper.

I like Aero and like everyone else they have good sales now.

How I buy does not require "building" rather just snapping parts together that come apart for cleaning normally, the way I buy these guns is I pickup a complete lower by ordering from an FFL (I browse online for part numbers/model), then I wait for a sale and buy a complete upper, charging handle, and bolt carrier group - all from the same brand but by doing this I get better deals and exactly the options I want. Part of this is because I only use a local dealer for the less expensive lower that requires a background check, then the rest I buy on sale and they are shipped to me direct.

With Aero AR15 I like their M4E1 stuff, which is a notch above mil spec, adds things like a solid trigger guard and a handguard that secures with 8 threaded torques versus just clamping on. Once you get all the parts a good practice is to stop by a local gunsmith for a headspace check - just verifies your parts fit right together (easy to do yourself too buy for a 1st AR simpler to let someone else tell you).

Another option for complete rifles is Stag - good quality, considered about the same as colt, lifetime warranty, but less $$ than colt.

[SamNavy]

Not to get too far off-topic...

Maybe just a little more... everything you said is worth a thought. Back in 1937, when Pittman-Robertson was signed, it was likely the opposite. A far larger percentage (if not "most") guns and ammunition were bought for the hunting.

My minimal research on the creation of this law was that sportsman overwhelmingly supported it because they knew if they were the ones paying for wildlife and habitat, and were essentially THE ONLY ONES, they'd be able to control it. Even today, it's not lost on your average conservation organization like the Sierra Club, Audubon Society, HSUS etc... that a few million dollars a year in dues can't compete with the taxes on billions of dollars of hunting and fishing equipment when it comes to politics. They know who butters the bread, they just don't agree with how we eat it.

[Fishbed77]

Maybe just a little more... everything you said is worth a thought. Back in 1937, when Pittman-Robertson was signed, it was likely the opposite. A far larger percentage (if not "most") guns and ammunition were bought for the hunting.

My minimal research on the creation of this law was that sportsman overwhelmingly supported it because they knew if they were the ones paying for wildlife and habitat, and were essentially THE ONLY ONES, they'd be able to control it. Even today, it's not lost on your average conservation organization like the Sierra Club, Audubon Society, HSUS etc... that a few million dollars a year in dues can't compete with the taxes on billions of dollars of hunting and fishing equipment when it comes to politics. They know who butters the bread, they just don't agree with how we eat it.

Unfortunately, this fits into the false narrative that all civilian firearms purchases must have a "sporting purpose," and that it should fall on the shoulders of gunbuyers as a whole to protect wildlife, biodiversity, and the environment. Even in 1937, this was not the case. We are ALL responsible for this crucial obligation. These monies should be collected, but they should come in the form of hunting license fees for hunters and fishers (I do both) since we harvest the wildlife, and taxes on those who destroy and pollute our ecosystem.

It shouldn't be an added burden for a young woman who needs to protect herself from a violent ex-boyfriend, or a parent who can't afford to live in a nicer neighborhood, but still needs to protect his/her family.

But I don't see this tax going away, because onerous taxes on the exercise of our 2nd Amendment rights are now as American as apple pie.

But to get back on topic, as others have mentioned, buying a separate upper and lower is a good way to save a few bucks, hence my earlier recommendation to get a BCM upper and separate lower of your choice to end up with a very high-quality AR for the price.

[bbqncigars]

My PSA Freedom combo rifle (upper and lower that was $350 delivered) just LOVES the 75grHP steel case Tula ammo. It keeps that cheap stuff under 3" at 100yds which is good enough for plinking fun.

[odugrad]

I'd look into the "build your own AR-15" class carefully before signing up. A lot of places will charge you $550 for a pile of parts that may be worth $200. I'm not saying don't do it, just do a little digging. Where are the parts from? Who manufactures them?

I'd still go with my recommendation of getting a BCM upper and inexpensive lower.

Just my two cents.

[DaveBj]

The $550 also includes instructor time. I'm not confident in my own ability to put something like that together without someone looking over my shoulder. I talked to the guy who actually runs the course; he told me where the parts come from, but the name of the company went in one ear, picked up speed, and departed via the other ear.

D

[Sulaco]

I've bought, built, assembled, etc. and now prefer to build from scratch. It's really easy to build such a modular rifle that doesn't require headspacing or timing, etc. like other guns do or would. It isn't necessarily cheaper but it is infinitely more rewarding. Just my opinion.

[AreYaSerious]

Cost may not be as big a factor for you as it was for me, but to give you an idea, I'm currently about $600 invested. That total includes a case, 5 magazines(2 20rd, 3 30rd), the rifle kit, lower receiver, cheap 4x32 scope, and about 600 rounds of ammo. I already had cleaning equipment. The rifle has performed admirably with no malfunctions and reasonable accuracy.

I mean I would be lying if I said I didn't like to save money, and you do make a good point about being more familiar with it. I may go this route.

[agtman]

Recommend me an AR15.

Colt. It's the original. Comes with the 'Prancing Pony' stamped on it too.

Everything else is just somebody's wannabe clone .... enough to make ya go, 'eh meh, blah.'

[GarandTd]

(building)

I may go this route.

I imagine you've looked into this option and Palmetto State Armory at this point. Be aware that the build kits from PSA(and many others) have the upper receiver with barrel and everything else already assembled. The only assembly you'll have to do is with the lower parts. The lower parts consist of the mag release, bolt catch/release, pistol grip, buffer tube/spring assembly, butt stock, trigger, hammer, springs and pins. You'll have to source the lower receiver. Also note, if you build, the stripped lower receiver is the only part of the rifle that requires an FFL transfer. The rest can be shipped to your door. I sourced my lower receiver(Anderson... affectionately called the "poverty pony") from a local Rural King. It was $50 +tax.

[ed308]

Second the above with the PSA upper and then build the lower. The lower is easy and doesn't require a lot of specialized tools like an upper build. Plus you'll learn how an AR15 functions. But the lower is shipped to a FFL. You'll need to go to the FFL make the transfer. Check prices before picking a FFL. Prices can vary widely. I pay only $10 to my FFL since I have my TX CHL.

There are plenty of video on You Tube that will walk you through each step. For me, I'd never pay $500+ for a class on building an AR. I'd buy a book instead of the class. But I've used book to learn my entire life.

[pete2]

Last year I bought a Ruger lower with a 2 stage trigger and a Rock River upper, total was less than 600.00. Very happy with the combination, very accurate with cheap Fed. ammo. Added a 1X Vortex prism scope. Still under 800.00. Really pleased with the 2 stage trigger.

[Leaf]

I remember being surprised upon first seeing rather inexpensive boxed up Ruger AR 556 rifles sitting about a Prescott gun store the later part of 2014/early 2015ish.

Thinking it was pretty cool to see that Ruger was finally producing an AR style rifle that didn't cost an arm and a leg, I shortly thereafter got my hands on one.

Fresh out of the box and while rapid firing a couple magazines through it, to my dismay it stopped running and the front end fell apart.

Angry thoughts and disappointment towards Bill Ruger (even though he had been dead many years before and had nothing to do with this rifle) mitigated only by the knowledge that Ruger had a good warranty policy immediately ran through my mind.

I glanced around the rifle and noticed that two pins were hanging out their respective holes having walked most the way out the A2. Relieved that I hadn't lost the pins and the realization that this was going to be a simple fix, I took a deep breath, laughed to myself and while still cursing Bill Ruger I fixed the problem.

Since then, the rifle has ran well with nary a problem. Not the most accurate AR I suppose, but I can consistently bang gongs rapid fire from two and even three hundred yards with the iron sights to the dismay of watching rookies.

[DashingDan]

My build is around $407 I just want a weapon in case of anarchy.

[pblanc]

Pins walking out of the front sight tower/gas block assembly was a problem known to occur with early Ruger AR556s. I haven't heard of this happening much in recent years.

The Ruger AR556 front sight tower/gas block is a proprietary design that departs from the mil-spec standard. The rear side of the triangular sight tower is serrated to reduce glare, and instead of having a permanently attached 1 1/4" sling swivel at the bottom rear of the sight tower, there is a socket for a quick detach, push button type of sling swivel. The main difference is that the Ruger tower is pinned above the bore of the barrel rather than below it.

[RAfiringline]

>Fresh out of the box and while rapid firing a couple magazines through it, to my dismay it stopped running and the front end fell apart. <

Bad luck!

My plebian DPMS Oracle has 6405 rds. through it, most of Tula, only 1 stoppage due to a faulty Fiocchi rd.
At around 5000 rds. it was printing at 1.6 moa (same as when it was near new).

They probably have kept the price down by less QC, so there probably are some lemons out there, but for once I lucked out.

[GarandTd]

My first AR experience was with a co-workers Ruger AR-556. After a couple shots, it started double tapping after a pin started walking. I didn't know what to do at the time and he was aware of the problem. Fast forward 6 months and I have my [no problem] PSA/Anderson ar15 and suggestions for him and how to fix his Ruger.

[GarandTd]

I'm not saying that the Ruger or S&W isn't a good starter, but the other budget
options offer advantages as well.

[Leaf]

I don’t know that I would particularly consider a Ruger AR 556 a “starter rifle.” I’ve been firing AR style rifle‘s for multiple decades. Decent price and quality with good warranty coverage, yes.

[GarandTd]

I would consider a decently priced, basic, no frills ar15 a starter rifle. IMO the Ruger falls into that. As does my PSA. I haven't handled a S&W M&P15, but I imagine it is comparable. I suppose one would need to define "starter rifle" since we may not all agree on what that is.