Annealing

[RC20]

I considered doing it this way as well. What sold me on annealing before sizing

was how easy it is to get a consistent shoulder bump and neck size if you anneal before sizing....But this really only applies if you are annealing after every firing with match ammo. If you are annealing every 3rd firing or later, I think you can anneal at any point in the case prep process prior to priming. I would be a bit concerned with denting the neck though if you annealed after sizing the neck. My annealer drops the case sometimes right on the neck and while i have never checked, I imagine it could dent it a little.

Not an issue with the Annie, its hand held not an automated machine (time yes) though I think Gerard as a setup they sell that works with an Annie.

Don't get me wrong, I think the clean first approach is better, but not workable for me right now due to cost and bench space and some time aspects.

I did find clean brass did not size as well as non cleared, that may be a procedure thing. Others have mentioned it as well.

But that is also vibratory cleared and may change with the tumbling and pins method. I do note the brass is not as shiny brassy with that (both my brother and once fired but pin cleaned I got ) . Not a tech issue but I love shiny brassy brass. I can adjust.

Not so sure that I would change where it falls in the process. My attempt at small holes are just for my satisfaction, entertainment or annoyance as it were than any competitive desire.

Its definitely rumbling around in the brain box.

If and when I go that route I will not change where as likely will use the vibratory until the anneal cycle.

All good discussion.

[Stats Shooter]

Mississippi, just as aside, what do you think of the Annealeez? I've been thinking of adding it to my equipment

It is my first automatic annealer. So obviously I haven't tried all of the available ones on the market.

But I have found it adequate for my needs. It will quickly anneal more brass than I need it too. I am not a big volume shooter. I competed twice a month, F-CLASS so if I was doing 3 gun or steel's it may be a bit too slow for those folks.

Also, it uses a single torch so I'm not sure if that's too slow for say .40 s&w before getting heat to the case head.

But it does a very consistent job, is easy to set up, and very well made. I would absolutely buy it again.

Oh and it doesn't take up much bench space.

You have to get different wheel sets for small vs large cartridges. And if you screw up getting the flame too close during setup you could melt a wheel.

[JeepHammer]

My wife bought me a Guiard & Annie combo after hearing me blabber on endlessly about annealing, and the two work pretty good together.
My biggest gripe is I can't use a case feeder, you have to hand stack brass in the bin.
Good wife! Just didn't know I had built several annealers already...

The biggest issue I have with electrical (magnetic) induction annealing is, if the unit is high powered enough you can blow the neck right off the brass!
At around 15kV you can remove most of the case in a millisecond, simply vaporizes the brass.
At around 2,000 watts you can melt the neck off the brass in less than 10 seconds.

So, with 600 to 1,000 watts, you can effectively anneal in about 1.5 to 3 seconds.
Any more power than that will SERIOUSLY overheat the neck/shoulder and go mono-chrystlline.

I don't have the graph in front of me, but TIME/Temprature (Time over Temperature),
Exposure time MUST go way down as temp of the brass increases.

The single most important guideline,
*IF* you see ANY 'Glow' of the brass, any hint of light radiation from the brass, it's ruined... PERIOD.

I did this wrong for YEARS, and when I started to study annealing of brass, still did it wrong for about a year since every single article I ever read said to get the brass to 'Glow', even to the point of being 'Cherry Red'.

The fact is, you WILL see a TEXTURE change on the surface, and the case might discolor, but if you see a 'Glow', the brass is seriously overheated and has gone mono-chrystlline.
You think you had stress line problems before, wait till you try and RE-load that brass a couple times...

Case neck tension, the 'Hold' the case keeps on the bullet, will be all over the place, and I've even had case necks crack AFTER they were loaded, just sitting on the bench, loaded cartridges that made a 'Tink' sound and the case neck split sitting there doing nothing...
THAT'S a seriously overheated case neck! (Yup! I was that bad at annealing!)

I can't stress enough, 800*F Templiq in the case neck!
Don't exceed 800*F. The point where most all cartridge brass goes Mono-chrystlline...

For the guys saying 750*F, you are right on the edge,
At 750*F you MUST get that case out of the flame FAST or you will exceed 800*F in a heartbeat!

Virtually all cartridge brass will anneal FULLY at about 700*F,
And I've not run into ANY brass that won't fully anneal at 730*F.
(With the exception of some WW II German brass, which I suspect wasn't actual cartridge brass in the first place, but I wasn't going to pay for chemical analysis for about 800 brass that wasn't going to be around long)

I haven't actually seen any American made brass, and the better European brass that wouldn't anneal pretty well at upwards of 650*F, not dead soft, but well below Rockwell B scale of 85, usually in the mid to upper 70s.

[supercub99]

"I began annealing AFTER i had already been using a wet tumbler for a while. So by the time i started annealing, my brass was already cleaner than it is when you buy it new. But! when i was seating up my machine, i would use old, un-cleaned brass, to get the timing right before moving onto the actual brass I inteneded to anneal. This actually threw my timing off by 1 second or 2."

That was my experience. I saw a big change in time with the wet cleaned brass. My timing was around 1.9-2.0 sec with the annie. Now it's a solid 2.1 across the board.

My problem with sizing before cleaning is there is powder residue around the necks and that gets mixed with whatever lube you use. If you then anneal it, the mixed residue changes the heat process, often times the whiff of smoke off the neck and the variation in appearance. Nice clean brass, inside and out anneals nicely and then sizes very uniformly. I believe there is a surface friction component in there someplace. I may be anal though...lol

[JeepHammer]

I do cleaning before anything other than occasionally decapping (universal decapping die doesn't require cleaning since the die body doesn't contact the brass so it doesn't scratch or grind the crud)

Clean, Anneal, Resize, Trim, Clean lube off & Polish when everything is 'Right' and I'm not going to wind up with die scratches/smears again.

I get better resizing when I anneal first, more consistant sizing if annealed first.

Some guys that anneal INSIST on the annealing showing, and that's fine by me,
I perfer a bright, fairly polished brass, don't care about annealing showing or not, I'm not annealing as a status symbol.

Level of polish completely depends on what I'm doing with the brass,
Practice/Range ammo I just want slick & clean,
Customer cases (I don't load for customers, too much liability), I usually put a pretty good polish on, I like them to look as good as Remington or Winchester brass when they go out, and since it's just time in the tumbler (in bulk) it doesn't bother me much.

I've seen reloaded rounds dirty as range brass left out in the weather, and I have to wonder if the guy knows that crud on the cases is going to get pressed into the chamber REALLY HARD when it's fired? Maybe not...

There are advantages to using poly drum cement mixers,
Fairly cheap, long lived motors, excellent weight carrying capicity, and I normally have them outside, spills, noise & dust aren't an issue.
Just set the timer & walk off, I'm lazy, I like that part!

[swampy308]

I have never done any annealing and have been reloading off and on since the early 90's.
The searching I have done on the subject says there's no wrong way to do it, so confusing.
Everyone does it different with success it seems.

[Stats Shooter]

I have never done any annealing and have been reloading off and on since the early 90's.
The searching I have done on the subject says there's no wrong way to do it, so confusing.
Everyone does it different with success it seems.

I haven't been reloading that long, But I thought the same thing. However, everyone has seen how inconsistent bullet seating, sizing, and velocities become with older brass having had multiple reloads.

There are all kinds of opinions, and self-righteous / pretentious internet experts out there who will critique the way you wipe your @#$. The only thing you NEED TO remember is not to anneal the casehead, because that is a safety issue. The other important advice is do not over anneal the neck/shoulder because while it isn't the safety issue if annealing the case head, it will ruin the case.

Beyond that just read some books/manuals, listen to some suggestions from helpful annealers, and try it.

The simple socket/torch/drill method works. It isn't as consistent as a machine. But get some Tempilaq, and give it a shot.

[F. Guffey]

There are all kinds of opinions, and self-righteous / pretentious internet experts out there who will critique the way you wipe your @#$. The only thing you NEED TO remember is not to anneal the case head, because that is a safety issue. The other important advice is do not over anneal the neck/shoulder because while it isn't the fire safety issue if annealing the case head, it will ruin the case.

After all of the space used on this forum and all the other forums it seems it is too late to discuss factors and rules. Factors, that was the first thing I did before I started annealing and then I established a few rules. That was 'back then' and now reloaders take off in a dead run.

F. Guffey

[T. O'Heir]

"...heat it to just cherry..." That'd be too hot. Just until the brass changes colour then tip. You tip 'em so you can handle 'em sooner.
Annealing isn't something you do on a schedule. It's only done when you get one cracked case neck. Rarely done, if ever, with pistol cases at all.
Anyway, this is one of the best articles on the net about annealing. Scientific and everything. http://bisonballistics.com/articles/...rass-annealing

[Stats Shooter]

Factors, that was the first thing I did before I started annealing and then I established a few rules. That was 'back then' and now reloaders take off in a dead run.

Reminds me of something I use in my work, or in math programming: Necessary and Sufficient conditions (Think proofs).

[JeepHammer]

Swampy,
There were SO MANY articles written by people that had ZERO idea of what they were doing, and it became 'Folk Lore'...
'Old Wives Tales'...

I started with the old articles, found out pretty quickly that they simply didn't work.
It got MUCH worse when I started to manufacture brass from roll stock, lots of ruined EXPENSIVE brass.

Steel hardening/annealing rules don't apply with non-ferrous metals, and brass/bronze has its own quirks.

Most candles will NOT fully anneal, they don't get the case hot enough,
Alcohol burners won't either. Tried both and neither worked with any consistancy.
They will *Partially* anneal, but not fully anneal, and they won't give consistancy from case to case.

Open flame gas (Natural Gas, Propane, Butaine) WITHOUT a oxygen inducing 'Jet' nozzle is a little slower, but gives REMARKABLE consistancy.
This is probably why the big brass manufacturers used (and still use) this process for annealing necks during the forming process.

'Jet Nozzle' gas annealing is almost always done wrong, virtually always overheating the case necks at the very least.
Gas has to heat from the outside in, this is a 'Slow' process when done correctly.
The gas jet MUST be aimed at the shoulder/taper of the case and allow heat to 'Creep' into the neck.
If you heat the neck first, being thinner, WILL overheat before the taper/shoulder comes close to reaching proper target temperature.

Low/small flame with a jet torch aimed at the shoulder will get you reasonably consistant annealing.

'Hot Die' annealing (Electrical Resistance) is basically an electric stove burner coil heating a neck size die,
The case neck/shoulder is dropped into the die that has VERY precise temperature control, transfers heat into the case.

As for production volume annealing, this is the slowest way to do things,
But it's the most precise way since your heat can be precisely controlled.
Remember, even at 'Proper' annealing temperature, you CAN leave the case exposed to heat too long and have the case go mono-chrystlline.

Mono-Chrystlline happens when the case is BOTH overheated, or its exposed to heat high enough for too long a period of time...
The idea is to reach maximum annealing temperature and STOP,
NOT to heat the case longer that is MINIMALLY required.

The last way I know about is Electrical Induction (Magnetic Induction) annealing.
Since the very fast 'Flipping' magnetic fields move the brass alloy MOLICULES very quickly, the friction of those molicules rubbing on each other produce heat INTERNALLY.

This produces heat all the way through the brass at the same time, saturation is almost instantaneous.
It's also very energy efficient...

Since the TIME the brass is heated, it's very hard to have the case go mono-chrystlline... *IF* you DO NOT seriously overheat the brass in the first place.

Remember, mono-chrystlline comes from both seriously overheating,
AND from too long of exposure to heat source...
Time at temperature is the cause of mono-chrystlline condition,
The higher the temp, the faster the brass will go mono-chrystlline.

Now, electrical induction (magnetic) keeps 'Grains' moving so the grains space back out where they belong with electrical annealing to a point where they are hard to distinguish from new brass.
That is a big plus to electrical annealing.

It most certainly IS possible to overheat brass with high power electrical induction (magnetic) annealing!
Even with molicules vibrating and moving, you most certainly can have cases go mono-chrystlline, so a little bit smaller unit taking a little longer to anneal gives you MUCH more consistant, better annealed brass.

The basics of the old time, constantly repeated articles are flawed, and there is never a mention of mono-chrystlline or a specific target hardness you are trying to reach.

Keep this in mind,
When the brass reaches you NEW, it's never been fired,
Brass that has never been exposed to heat AND pressure at the same time can anneal back down to 'Dead Soft' (Very close to Rockwell B scale of about 65).

Once that brass is exposed to heat AND pressure of firing, and case bob has been introduced to the brass alloy from the firing cycle,
It's virtually impossible to get back down to 'Dead Soft',
The brass will more than likely go mono-chrystlline before it annealer to 'Dead Soft'...

With a 'Good' system of annealing, your once (or more) fired brass will anneal down to '1/4 Hard' (Rockwell B scale of 73-75)
In comparison, a LOT of brand new military brass shows up around Rockwell B 80-85 depending on manufacturer,
Even though the base brass alloy is chemically the same as civilian brass.
The military likes their brass a little harder, so they simply don't soften it as much before they load it...

Since 'New' brass is only 'New' once, I shoot 'Once' (or more) fired brass,
And it's pretty easy to get brass back down to Rockwell B of 75-80, even with home made equipment.

The target *Should* be CONSISTANT instead of 'Dead Soft'.
1/4 Hard shoots just as well as Dead Soft, and is a LOT more practical.
Consistancy is MUCH more important that some specific, almost unattainable Rockwell number.

I don't send a lot of brass out for chemical & grain analysis.
I wish I had the facilities or could afford it, but I don't have an 'Friendin a metallurgical lab anymore...
I'd very much like to know at what particular point each type/caliber brass goes mono-chrystlline.

[F. Guffey]

Most candles will NOT fully anneal, they don't get the case hot enough,

There are simple rules to follow when annealing, if you were familiar with a few of the rules you would know the above statement should be listed under 'Old Wives tales' and then there are factory to consider, or not?

F. Guffey

[Bill DeShivs]

After 45 years of heat treating metals-both ferrous and non-ferrous, as a jeweler, cutler, gunsmith- I have never heard the term "micro crystalline" (the correct spelling) used.
I'm not a reloader, but have been around guns all my life. When annealing brass, I assume you want it dead soft-otherwise you are "tempering" rather than annealing. This is done quite simply by heating the brass to red.
If you heat the brass much past red, you will have a melted blob of brass, and I don't see how it could possibly be "micro crystalline," as that blob of brass can be worked just like any other brass. Brass cases start out as a blob of melted brass which is then worked, punched/formed. Why isn't it micro crystalline then? And what, exactly, does brass do when this happens, if it happens at all?
Some people put way too much thought into annealing brass-a very simple process- not mystical magic.

[RC20]

I have never done any annealing and have been reloading off and on since the early 90's.
The searching I have done on the subject says there's no wrong way to do it, so confusing.
Everyone does it different with success it seems.

Jeephammer had the long version.

I have the short one. There are many ways to screw it up, some unsafe (bases getting annealed) and others don't hurt.

There are few ways to do it right and it takes serious attention to detail to do so.

There are a lot of people who will tell you cherry red is perfect, with a straight face. They believe it. They are wrong.

The only good news is that cherry red neck in water is not dangerous and they just have brass that will get 1" for accuracy at best, but its not a safety issue.

I suppose the really over the edge unsafe and daring ones blow themselves up and we do not hear from them.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by JeepHammer

The last way I know about is Electrical Induction (Magnetic Induction) annealing.
Since the very fast 'Flipping' magnetic fields move the brass alloy MOLICULES very quickly, the friction of those molicules rubbing on each other produce heat INTERNALLY.

This produces heat all the way through the brass at the same time, saturation is almost instantaneous.
It's also very energy efficient...

I'm afraid that is not how induction heating works.

The changing magnetic field going through the brass induces electric current (called eddy currents) in the brass. Heat is generated because of the current (electron flow) interacts with resistance in the metal. Metal molecules (not MOLICULES) are excited as electrons collide with them. They are not excited directly by the magnetic field, as food gets hot in microwave oven. So basically the mechanism is similar to conventional electric resistive heating. The difference is distribution of electric current in the metal.

Induction heating has a lot of advantages for annealing brass. It is a neat method that allows precise control, no doubt. But I'm not convinced it is the best, or even the only, method. The definition of "good", "better", and "the best" depends on a lot of things.

-TL

[JeepHammer]

Um, not to put too fine a point on things,
Micro chrystlline and mono chrystlline are two entirely different things.
Micro chrystlline is fracturing larger into smaller,
Mono is creating larger from smaller, making the metal much easier to crack.
Neither is good for brass.
Grain structure is specifically formulated & formed to be maximized in cartridge brass.

------

Since this was brought up,
Flipping magnetic current in the INDUCTOR creates magnetic 'Eddie Currents',
Magnetic polarity changing is what moves the metal (called 'Frequancy'),
Eddie currents maintain movement between polarity flips, the 'Zero Voltage' time between positive/zero/negative/zero/positive/zero/negative flip cycles.

This creates & expands 'North'/'South' flips in the magnetic field,
North/South/North/South, NO 'ZERO' in the middle.
Electrical polarity REQUIRES a Zero point before it can 'Flip' direction.
Magnetic fields are a useful byproduct of that electrical polarity reversal,
But magnetic fields can exist in both 'North' & 'South' at the same time creating what you commonly call 'Eddie Currents'.

Two opposite electrical currents CAN NOT exist in the same conductor,
While opposite magnetic fields co-exist in every ferrous metal,
That ferrous material doesn't become 'Magnitized' until the RANDOM micro magnetic compounds become 'Polarized' or aligned in the same direction,
Then you call it a 'Magnet'.

Can't have an 'Eddie Current' (although there is no current involved) at full magnetic field strength,
Eddie currents are formed as current is cut off, reaches zero, then forms a magnetic field with an opposite polarity.

'Eddie Current' (should be Magnetic Eddie) is a misnomer,
Just like DC negative is called a 'Ground' (shorthand for 'Earth Ground').

It's a misnomer,
There isn't any 'Current' in magnetic fields,
Magnetic fields 'Circulate' or they expand & contract....

If you want to get technical about magnetic fields, and show even more flaws electrical guys are taught about magnetism,
MOVING magnetic fields INDUCE (root word of 'Induction') electrical POTENTIAL.
Now, if that electrical POTENTIAL becomes an electrical 'Current' depends entirely on if the electrical POTENTIAL is in a completed circuit...

An electrical CURRENT moving through an electrical conductor creates a magnetic field. Period.
ANY moving current will create a magnetic field around the conductor.

In the case of electrical (magnetic) induction,
The circuit completes, creates a magnetic field around the conductor (annealing coil),
Then semi-conductor switching shuts the power off!
This creates an OPEN CIRCUIT, the magnetic field starts to collapse around the conductor...

When the semi-conductor (switching transistor) connects the power again, the polarity of the circuit is reversed (flipped),
The NEW rapidly expanding magnetic field 'Spins Off' the remainder of the magnetic field that is collapsing, creating what you are calling an 'Eddie Current', which is actually a magnetic 'Eddie' since magnetic fields have ZERO 'Electrical current component.

The Connected Circuit magnetic field yanks molicules one direction,
The magnetic field collapse (moving magnetic field) releases the force of the pull,
Magnetic Eddies vibrate the molicules during the 'Zero Voltage' cycle,
The electrical polarity reverses, the magnetic field builds (expanding, moving magnetic field) creating a heavy molecular pull in the opposite direction,
Then the process repeats with collapse, zero, building back in the first polarity, again creating magnetic eddies when the electrical polarity flips, building a magnetic field in the opposite polarity.

Polarity when referring to magnetic fields is a misnomer also.
We call magnetic poles 'North' & 'South' even though the 'North' doesn't point to true north.

Electrical current & magnetism are inseparable, can't have one without the other,
The single basic foundation of electrical function is the 'Electro-Magnetic Link',
Simply can't have electrical current without a magnetic field being formed...

You CAN have a magnetic field without an electrical current,
And yet the magnetic end of things is skipped right over in electrical education, mostly because they are being taught to build circuits, and often view the magnetic fields produced as an annoyance or problem,
Instead of treating the magnetic field as the root of about all electrical generation, and without mastering magnetic fields 'Electricity' is a parlor trick limited to static generators...

[tangolima]

Hmm...

That is surely a new school of electromagnetic study. Sounds similar to, but not exactly the same as, the one I know of.

Not that it's important. It works for annealing the brass. That's what counts.

-TL

[JeepHammer]

There are bound to be 'Theroies' on how things work, since you OBSERVE results and can't actually see things working...

A guy that got training 30 or 40 years ago got text book information from 70 years ago, not always accurate.
I run into conflicts between older and newer text books all the time (I never throw out a text book, I have a pretty extensive collection.)
The best research in magnetics have happened in the past 30 years or so, sensors so refined they can detect a cell phone power size signal on Jupiter coming out of Florida collage & NASA is an example...

Florida university has a good magnetics department, and a bunch of their research is online. Most of the modern work with magnetics that make modern computers possible and sensors for NASA have come out of Florida university research in the past 40 years or so.
Good basic tutorials, even an 'Average Joe' like me can understand them.
I learn something new about basic magnetics every single time I read their tutorials and research, but admittedly, most of it goes over my head.

Every electrical engineer has to deal with Electromagnetic (EM) and radiated magnetic (RF Radio Frequancy) issues simply because every electrical current produces a magnetic field, and those electromagnetic fields are often a byproduct and not wanted because they interfere with everything around the radiation point.

More to the point for our application here,
In the case of annealing, we are simply using the magnetic field to do productive work.

I've noticed the 'RF' noise an open annealing coil makes in my radio,
When I use a ferrite core I don't get near the interference with the radio.
Ferrites have long been used to dampen or eliminate RF emissions, so it makes sense... Not to worried about the noise when I'm annealing since everything is running anyway it's hard to hear the radio!

Back when I did some work for a hot rod parts company on ignition systems, we had two big issues,
One was the switching noise the capacitive discharge module made, that was solved with a capacitor,
And the RF noise the spark plug wires made.
That got solved by using a dielectric resin cap material and using a spiral wound core spark plug wire.
Not that it has anything to do with this project, just saying that capacitive discharge units (like annealers) can produce 'Noise' you might not want.

All that noise will be produced in magnetic fields and effect other electrical devices. That's why I consider magnetic fields to be just as important as the electrical components,
The electrical components produce the magnetic fields, the magnetic fields do the work in our situation, so understanding the magnetic field interaction is a big deal.

[JeepHammer]

The other thing I have the hardest time explaining is magnetic fields do NOTHING until they move.
You either MOVE a conductor or ferrous material THROUGH (moving) a magnetic field,
Or,
You MOVE the magnetic field THROUGH (moving) a material.

Static (non-moving) fields do nothing, there MUST be movement.
Current must MOVE through wire to produce a magnetic field,
A magnetic field must MOVE through a conductor to induce (induction) in an electrical circuit.
Movement is the key.

That is the basic idea behind annealing,
Electrical current MOVING one direction (polarity) through the annealing coil produces a polarized (North/South oriented) magnetic field,

The ELECTRICAL polarity reduces to zero, then flips the other direction, electrical polarity 'Flips', running current REVERSED through the winding the opposite direction,
That produces a magnetic polarity 'Flip' ('South'/'North').

Since magnetic fields collapse much slower than the electrical current is capable of reversing, the reversion creates 'Eddie Currents' in the magnetic fields.
Same way a stream entering a river creates 'Eddie Currents', seen (observed) as 'Swirls' on the surface.
It's simply the attempt of the magnetic fields to equalize, and those 'Swirls' yank around the molicules of the brass in the process, producing friction, which produces heat...

Not really a long chain of events to get a grasp on, no more complicated than liquid fuel vaporizing, mixing with air, being compressed in an engine cylinder, then sparked by a spark plug to produce heat, heat expansion pushes a piston down... Much more complicated than a magnetic field interaction in brass.

[F. Guffey]

Eddie currents are formed as current is cut off, reaches zero, then forms a magnetic field with an opposite polarity.

I was thinking when current is cut off the magnetic field collapse and If I had a small compass I could determine the directions the current was flowing. And then when it changes direction I was thinking that happens with alternating current.

And then if someone is looking for eddies look behind a rock.

When current is cut off. And I ask: When does the magnetic field collapse? And then I gave them two choices. One choice; does the coil collapse when the circuit is completed? Or does the coil collops when the circuit is broken? No one answered the question correctly until I modified the question; I had them hold two wires and then ask them the same question. No one felt anything when the circuit was completed but when the circuit was broken; that was another matter.

F. Guffey

[swampy308]

Lord have mercy on me, you guys are talking way over my head now lol.

[JeepHammer]

Field expands when curcuit is completed, contracts/collapses when circuit is broken.
Same way an ignition works,
Magnetic field forms & intensifies while circuit is closed (closed breaker points for example),
Primary winding connected to power source through breaker point switch.

The collapse of the magnetic field through the secondary windings induces the high voltage spark energy when the primary circuit opens.
Electrical potential builds as magnetic field passes though secondary windings on the way to the iron core,
Potential builds until it can ionize and jump the spark gap at the spark plug.

The reason for a laminated soft iron core in the transformer (ignition) foul is to focus the collapse inward through the secondary winding instead of wasting it on the case or open space.

The question I always ask is why soft iron is used in canister coils, laminated soft steel in 'E' core coils?
It's rare when an electrical educated engineer can answer that question...
Their education is in electrical current flow, not magnetics, so it either is t taught to them or it's only marginally hit on and skipped over from there.

[JeepHammer]

Don't sweat it Swampy, its about how brass reacts to 'Critical' heating.
These conversations always take a left field turn simply because of disinformation, misinformation, etc.

The entire idea is to get brass up to about 730*F to 750*F for a VERY short time,
The thermal point that cartridge brass (high Zinc content) expands out the compacted stress lines from work hardening.

You can over cook anything, so you don't want too hot for too long.
You can under cook anything, and not reach the desired results.

For me, best, most consistant results come in around 730*F in alsmost all cases,
Don't overheat the neck in the process,
Don't leave the brass cooking for too long, reach target temp and get out.

[RC20]

Being a simple kind of guy, I think the single most important rule is:


You can do anything you want to the neck and shoulder, NEVER heat up the base! Heated base equal sudden pressure release into your face.


Under heat and minimum to no affect

Overheat it and never going to bounce back (though you may be happy in your ignorance)

But neither is dangerous, and its better to be disappointed than injured or dead. Trust me, been there (injured) , done that (tried to die) carloads of T shirts.

[supercub99]

In a perfect world........

When it comes to reloading, it's a bunch of little steps that add up to about as close as we can get to the perfect load. Each step has a cost in time and money and adds different degree's to the total. You can sort bullets, brass and if really anal, primers by weight. We can cut, trim, polish and true the brass, the bullets and balance in our checking accounts. But what about the powder factor? That's not often addressed, we just assume I suppose. Truth is, that's one thing we can't do a lot about. It can and will vary from batch to batch, age, and temperature of the day. Bench rest guys will test batches, have different supplies for different temps and other guarded secrets. For us regular folks, we just go with what we get.

The point is, we control what we can where we can and at the level we can afford it. If one has enough money, you could buy new brass, use it once and throw it away. Will the guy that has a lee loader and a hammer outshoot a guy with a cleaning system, top dies, an induction annealer and all the precision gages etc? Could, you bet, all the time and consistently? No way. Consistency is the goal and that which translates to small groups all the time and why it's important to achieve that at every step you can.

The internet is ripe with rat holes and far too many probably dive down those in search of simple answers when there are none. That has been well covered here so suffice to say be careful.

That said, back to the annealing subject. Jeephammer covers the methods rather well. Today there are two basic ways, torch in various flavors and numbers, induction units the same. If you were to go through the plants currently making rifle brass, you would find both methods being used. The trend is toward induction but it hasn't replaced the torch quite yet. My guess is that, and I'll mention that word again, "consistency", will be the driving force going forward. You can control temperature much more precisely with induction than you can with a torch. You also gain the ability to deal with various brass lots and tie it into your induction stage automatically. Not all brass is created equal and reacts the same in heating duration. In addition you get open flame and gas out of the plant.

Back to our setups. I wrote about cleaning with wet media in another thread on the forums and found that it was a far superior result than dry tumbling. I found that cleaning the inside of the case to shiny new made a significant difference in annealing time per setting with dirty inside than clean. I extended the duration by about .5 seconds for the later. I intentionally leave out the number I use so as not to have someone blindly grab onto it when there are other variables to deal with. To refresh the other posting, I cut two 30-06 cases in half, one wet media cleaned..ie ss pins, and the other dry tumbled. Being somewhat anal, I took a dirty half shell and put it in the annealer, it glowed red hot. I did the same with a half of the clean and shiny one...perfect anneal and at the same exact setting. To take it a step further, I did it again with the two remaining examples...same result. So, when I say I intentionally leave out the number you can see why. If I were to say, xxx seconds without specifying clean vs dirty inside, someone would have over cooked brass. Then, there's different makes of brass and they too take different times. AMP Annealing makes an $1100 machine that has programs for all the different brass makes for the same cal. It makes a diff!
I'm not suggesting that one uses the wet ss method, only that you make sure you adj your torch or induction unit for your brass. Take the time to mark the brass with templat run some samples, write it down. Double check your induction unit as well from time to time, I've read that it's been found that an induction unit in 40 deg takes a different time than 75 deg ambient room temp. If your working on brass in the winter in the garage and later in the summer, it can make a difference.

Lots to think about and details to keep track of. Or hell, just go by new brass...lol