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Old April 7, 2008, 05:00 PM   #51
Dave85
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I do not advocate doing anything simply because the rest of the world is doing it. The popularity of something is not, in itself, proof of it's superiority. America has got many things right. We have too many here who automatically assume we are wrong if some other country does something a different way.

Having said that, I am now secure enough in my Americanhood to say this: I believe that metric is an easier standard to work with for most people in most situations, and we would do well to switch. From a capitalist standpoint, it seems oddly combative for us to look at the rest of the world and say "you convert, we can't be bothered with it." It's bad for business. There might have been a time when we could afford to be so brash, but that time has passed. If you doubt that, take note: this past year, Toyota surpassed General Motors as the world's largest auto manufacturer. I would submit that American businesses need to look at the rest of the world as any good entrepreneur looks at their target market, and ask themselves: "what can I do to better cater to these markets?" Using the same ruler as the customer might be a good start.

I do not think that switching to the metric system for general use will sound the death knell for the good ol' .45, or .44, or .38, etc. The firearms market, being populated by traditional folk, will continue to demand guns and cartridges and reloading dies for these calibers well into the future. Just as the Kelvin scale remains in use alongside Celsius in many laboratories, I believe that if the metric system were to be adopted in this country, we would see the Imperial system live on in the world of firearms.

The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from!
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Old April 7, 2008, 07:15 PM   #52
SteelJM1
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It's splitting hairs, but I disagree. Having to move to fractions of a degree in centigrade means that the system is indeed less precise because it requires a greater number of significant digits to achieve the same level of precision as Fahrenheit. Both systems are equally accurate, but Fahrenheit is more precise. People use inches to measure barrel length of a gun because inches are more precise than miles. Sure, you could say that my Model 19 has a 9.4696969(repeating) × 10^-5 mile long barrel and that's just accurate as saying it has a 6 inch barrel, but using inches is more precise.

In terms of real-world practicality between Fahrenheit and Centigrade though, it doesn't matter; you're absolutely right about that.
It's true that one unit in fahrenheit is more precise than one in celsius, but its still a silly scale. Water freezes at 32 and boils at 212? Hehe, silly Germans.
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Old April 7, 2008, 08:21 PM   #53
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Every time I try and think in metric I fall further in love with my airplanes. There is not a single metric dimension, quantity, or bolt anywhere on them. The metric system is the work of the devil.
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Old April 7, 2008, 08:29 PM   #54
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Any claim that the Inch system is more intuitive by its nature is false.
OK, what is exactly a third of a decimeter with no fudging?

Is is 33mm, 33.33mm, 33.3333333mm? What?
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Old April 7, 2008, 09:54 PM   #55
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You realize people hardly ever use decimeters. Kilometers, meters, centimeters are the everyday units and people have no problem thinking in terms of 1.8 meters or 180 centimeters when they are born and raised to them. Funny but any manufacturing drawing of any precision whatsoever which is in English immediately throws out fractional dimensions and tolerances. I'll see .3750" +/- .0003" or 1.250" +/- .005". What "intuitive" fraction do fans of inches think we should use there?
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Old April 7, 2008, 11:26 PM   #56
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OK, what is exactly a third of a decimeter with no fudging?

Is is 33mm, 33.33mm, 33.3333333mm? What?
Easy. 1/3dm. Your point is moot. One can say "A third of an inch" or "0.3...in" it means the same thing. What's exactly 0.4 inches in standard fraction with no fudging? 12.8/32'nds? 25.6/64'ths? 51.2/128ths? hmm...
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Old April 7, 2008, 11:51 PM   #57
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.4in in a standard fraction is 4/10th of an inch.
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Old April 7, 2008, 11:52 PM   #58
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shh, don't ruin my point.
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Old April 8, 2008, 05:38 AM   #59
Archie Clement
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Because metric SUCKS!
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Old April 8, 2008, 06:47 AM   #60
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Because metric SUCKS!
You're 1.6093 km off base!

The system doesn't suck; it's actually pretty logical. What sucks for most people is having to deal with two standards. In my world, it allows more opportunities for error. Some of the drawings we get are even dimensioned in one system and toleranced in the other. Makes you wonder about the designer. But toggling between the systems is pretty easy.

Musketeer makes an excellent point about dropping fractions when precision is required. We don't see +- 1/512 on drawings.

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Everything is either European (Tornos) or Asian (Citizen) already
Tornos... very nice! I keep trying to justify one.
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Old April 8, 2008, 08:28 AM   #61
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It's true that one unit in fahrenheit is more precise than one in celsius, but its still a silly scale. Water freezes at 32 and boils at 212? Hehe, silly Germans.
Fahrenheit used the coldest temperature he could get to set the zero point.
The forced melting of ice in a saturated brine solution hits 0 F.

His alcohol thermometers also had enough vapor pressure above the column to alter the apparent boiling point from his desired 200 F when mercury was used for the liquid.

He originally thought human body temp would be 100 F also.
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Old April 8, 2008, 08:35 AM   #62
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I like the metric systems. It works quite nicely for me since I've grown up with it and I think its pretty logical anyway.

As far as calibers go, who cares? Europeans don't say 11.43mm acp for a .45 acp and Americans certainly don't say .355 inch luger. There's no need to convert anything.
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Old April 8, 2008, 11:20 AM   #63
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Well we dont need fractions on a blueprint for the parts we run. Decimals work just fine for us, maybe not for others though. Im not really sure why a machine shop would want to stock both standard and metric endmills. Maybe its just a regional thing? Seems kinda like a pain to me. Maybe a few certain sizes of metric carbide drills if you had alot of repeat work with a certain metric hole size. Probally 90% of the blueprints we get is metric. I guess I will just have to keep being an outdated dinousar and still convert them over. It is time consuming though when a part that fits in one hand has over 100 dimensions. Everytime I go to a height gage or optical comparator thats on and in the metric system, I wonder who the oddball is Im working with . Some of the younger crowd thats fresh out of tech school uses metric, but they usally slowy start going to standard. Oh well whatever suits you. But I hope people dont think if we switched over to metric it would only take a few years. And lots and lots of money. Teaching the metric system to every factory worker, pipe fitter, brick layer, farmer, millwright, iron worker, truck driver, would be an easy task only taking a little while.
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Old April 8, 2008, 11:25 AM   #64
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Teaching the metric system to every factory worker, pipe fitter, brick layer, farmer, millwright, iron worker, truck driver, would be an easy task only taking a little while.
Or you can... you know.. start em young. If they HAD made a serious push for it in the 70's guess what... all the kids edumacated then would be adults now using metrics quite easily.

Quote:
Fahrenheit used the coldest temperature he could get to set the zero point.
The forced melting of ice in a saturated brine solution hits 0 F.

His alcohol thermometers also had enough vapor pressure above the column to alter the apparent boiling point from his desired 200 F when mercury was used for the liquid.

He originally thought human body temp would be 100 F also.
That's one of the theories. Nobody really knows. Regardless, the C scale makes more sense to me. Freeze = 0, boil = 100. Or the K scale. Absolute 0 = 0. Water freezes at 273, and boils at 373. I think i'll start referring to everything in Kelvin just to mess with people.
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Old April 8, 2008, 11:33 AM   #65
bamatj
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Or teach them young that the metric system is the devil. I like the way this guy thinks: http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Metric...etric_land.htm
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Old April 8, 2008, 11:45 AM   #66
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Might as well close this one now. It's been pretty well hashed out and besides the firearms aspect of the discussion ceased many posts ago.
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