Interesting Self-Defense Story From Florida

[Bartholomew Roberts]

http://cbs4.com/local/Palmetto.Bay.s...2.1729133.html

John Lee was returning to the apartment complex where he lives after working and visiting a sick relative. He has had a permit to carry a pistol for several years; but normally doesn't carry it. However since he knew he would be arriving home late, he took the unusual (for him) step of tucking it into his waistband.

Arriving home, he got out of his car and was greeted by three armed men wearing hoodies who instructed him to "Give it up!" but before he could respond, they began firing, hitting him in the hand. He drew his Glock and returned fire and the men ran off. It was only after the confrontation that he realized he had been shot three times more - twice in the abdomen and once in the left hand.

I thought the story was interesting because it highlights a number of factors we often discuss here.

1. One of the factors was the randomness. Normally, John Lee doesn't carry the pistol. He lives in an apartment and works as a Sam's Club manager so he isn't at especially high risk to be a violent crime victim. Yet it happened to him all the same, and especially lucky for him, he just happened to have the tools he needed that day.

2. Before he could even respond, he was shot in the left hand. This means any techniques requiring both hands were already not an option for him.

3. Adrenaline is an amazing thing - he soaked up three more hits, including two torso hits and didn't even know he had been shot. As we often discuss, firearms aren't magic death rays. The good news from that is you don't have to give up just because you've been shot. The bad news is neither does the other side.

[thesheepdog]

That's an amazing story. I wonder if he hit any of his attackers when he fired back? I sure hope so. That man is especially lucky to be alive.

[DogoDon]

I'd be curious to know whether the Glock was being carried in condition 1. The article says he stuck the gun in his waistband, which would be pretty scary (and unwise) in condition 1. But his left hand was struck before he drew, so I was just wondering if he somehow managed to rack the slide with his bad left hand (or in some other way), or if he didn't need to because there was already a round in the chamber. I wish newspaper reporters were smart enough to ask and report the answers to such questions!

DD

[jokester_143]

Don, would you carry a pistol without a round in the chamber? That extra few seconds may be a luxury you do not have...

[Don P]

Don, would you carry a pistol without a round in the chamber? That extra few seconds may be a luxury you do not have...

Many people here on TFL have stated that that is the way they carry their Glocks. They mostly state the potential of a AD and wish to carry the Israeli way.

[DogoDon]

^^ Exactly. I just found it a curious combination of facts that (1) his left hand was (perhaps) out of commission, (2) he was carrying a Glock, and (3) he had it tucked in his waistband.

If it was in condition 1, he may have been lucky in more than one way (i.e., that he didn't accidentally shoot himself before this incident).

Of course, it's always a distinct possibility that the news reporter heard "I had the Glock in an inside-the-waistband holster", and didn't understand enough to realize that is quite different from "tucked in the waistband."

DD

[Dre_sa]

Not to attack you, Dogodon,

but I think the whole idea of a person accidentally shooting themselves with a glock when they put it in their waistband, as opposed to a holster is wrong.

If your finger is on the trigger while holstering a glock, it will pull your trigger finger back. Boom

if you have your finger on the trigger while putting the glock in your waistband, it will pull your trigger finger back. Boom

Trigger discipline works for both situations.

holster or not, if your finger is on the trigger when it shouldn't be bad things can happen.

[wally626]

Dre_sa

The issue with just stuck in the waist band with a glock, is if it slips and you grab at it, it may go off. Not likely to happen with a holstered gun.

[SheepNutz]

I'm with Don, in his waistband could still mean it was inside a holster. The article just isn't specific and it's not something an everyday reporter would think twice about.

[BGutzman]

One Id never carry without a holster or specially designed pocket that acts as a holster.

Two if I did tuck it in my pants with my luck it would fall down into my drawers at the most inappropriate moment possible and Id shoot something important off trying to fish it out.

[Bob F.]

Knowing the accuracy of the media, it may not have even been a Glock.

Bob

[Teuthis]

That fellow was brave and acted fast. He made the single error of not spotting those people first. It is best, if one is coming into a dark area, to sit in the car and scan the area before exiting, or even turning off the engine. Of all the paranoid and often silly things citizens may do in self defense, like carrying two guns,three extra magazines, practicing fast draws in front of a mirror, etc; being aware and always alert is not one of them. I think that is the biggest lesson to learn from this event.

[Rich Miranda]

but I think the whole idea of a person accidentally shooting themselves with a glock when they put it in their waistband, as opposed to a holster is wrong.

If your finger is on the trigger while holstering a glock, it will pull your trigger finger back. Boom

if you have your finger on the trigger while putting the glock in your waistband, it will pull your trigger finger back. Boom

Trigger discipline works for both situations.

holster or not, if your finger is on the trigger when it shouldn't be bad things can happen.

You are technically correct.

But I wonder if there aren't some deeper behavioral correlations here...

For example, is someone who would carry a gun in the waistband (Mexican style, as it were) - which is one of the first "don'ts" you hear with regard to carrying a gun - less likely than other gun-carriers to practice firearm handling safety? In other words, if he doesn't know that carrying Mexican style is unwise (or chooses to ignore this fact), does he know (or care) that putting his finger on the trigger is unwise?

I would think there is a correlation.

[TheGoldenState]

Gotta go with Don on this one. If hes carrying a GLOCK (or any other no safety striker) racked and ready it damn well better be in a holster especially if just tucked in waistband.

[higgy1911]

if he didn't even realize he was shot as stated in the first post, which is not an uncommon occurence in a fight, what makes us assume that he was only using one hand. He likely used whatever his normal firing grip is, considering he didn't know he was hurt.

Remember the FBI shootout in miami, Platt was shot in the hand, and continued to operate a mini-14.

Its super important to be able to operate your carry gun one handed, but also important to remember that being shot is not the same as being disabled.

[Pointman870]

I know I'm new to TFL but I've been shooting and training for many years and I just wanted to throw in my two cents.

First, I agree with Teuthis. My first instructor taught me that the best way to win a gun fight is to not get into a gun fight. Situational Awareness should be the first tool in your arsenal.

Second, the main reason I see for using a holster with a Glock is that the only external safety is on the trigger, and a rather light trigger. In the waist band, as opposed to a holster, you run more of a risk having clothing getting caught in the trigger guard causing a ND (Negligent Discharge). My main hesitation of not using a holster is that I don't want to have to keep adjusting the firearm as I walk, stand up, bend over, etc. With a holster I know the firearm is secure and I know where it will be when I need it.

And lastly, this is an excellent example of why you should practice with both hands, strong hand only and weak hand only. What if he had been shot in his strong hand? Could he have drawn his firearm and been able to safely return fire?

Just some things to think about.

[Glenn Dee]

I don know who this new Pointman 870 charater is But... Holsters?... We don nee no stinkin holsters...


LOL Hey Lee... Welcome aboard

Glenn

[Pointman870]

I happen to know that you DO own a holster, now if someone could teach you how it works...lol

Thanks for the welcome Glenn.