Dirty Reloads

[davpet]

Guys,
I just shot my second ever batch of reloads for my Garand. They functioned perfectly, but the brass was really dirty looking when I picked it up (looked like carbon fouling). The Rifle was really dirty when I got home and cleaned it. Is this common with IMR4895?

Is it dirtier than other commercial powders?
It seemed that the Talon, M2 ball, commercial and PMP shot much cleaner... Any Help would be appreciated.

thanks
Dave

[Southla1]

Dave, I think it may be the load density (charge) probably like me you load down a bit for the old M1. (45 grains 4895/147 grain bullet) that may be the cause of the carbon fouling. I use 4895 in my 22-250 and it is not noticeably dirtier than Varget or 3031, In my Garand it is dirtier than it is in full house 06 loads in my 03A3. One other thing is that you are siphioning off gas from the barrel to operate the action, and some of the carbon fouling that would be blown out the muzzle gets into the gas cylinder and on the rifle.

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Carlyle Hebert

[JackFlash]

Yeah, carbon fouling is typically from too light of a load not creating enough working pressure to cleanly burn all the powder.

Powders generate pressure by generating pressure. I realize that sounds contradictory, but the pressure created by the burning powder provides the chemical process for the powder to burn efficiently and generate more pressure.

Sounds like you're not generating the minimal pressures in this load. You could step up the load or choose a powder that burns a bit faster. Some load manual data provides pressure ratings. The manual should also list comparative burn rates for various powders. These ratings can help you find a powder that is matched for your prefered load. (And then you have to tweek all over again for accuracy with that powder/bullet combo.)



[This message has been edited by JackFlash (edited July 10, 2000).]

[Southla1]

Dave what JackFlash says is 110% correct, just be advised that there are not too many powders that have a burn rate that is ok for the Garand. 4895 is called "the Garand powder"

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Carlyle Hebert

[davpet]

guys,
Thanks for the information, I had some great groups with 40.9 grains of 4895 behind a 150 Hornady SPBT. Would I be in any way harming my Garand if I used this load consistently? I also had the wierdest thing happen, after the rifle cooled between strings of 10, I would throw a flyer to the lower left about 7:30 in the 5 ring while the rest of the shots were in the 8,9, 10 rings. Any ideas why this happened?? I thought that maybe I wasn't letting the bolt fly home hard enough when loading the clip, maybe the locking lugs weren't closed completely? I usually don't give the op rod a bump when I load a clip-- maybe I should.

Thanks

Dave

[Southla1]

Dave, that load is a VERY safe load, it is really almost too light, that is the reason for the carbon fouling I am certain now. Let me say this, 4895 really has to my knowledge never had a detonation problem so use that load if you like it. It will not harm your rifle. The military loaded about 49 or so grains of 4895 under a 150 grain bullet in the M2 Ball load. The reason I say about 49 grains is that it was a non-canister powder and the load had to be varied from lot to lot of powder to get the pressure and velocity wanted.
A Garand always could use a "little help" in the form of a good pop on the back of the op rod handle to help chamber the first round off the clip after that no help is needed at all. The only time to ease the bolt forward is when doing it with an empty rifle.
I really do not think that is the problem with throwing off the first round. I may be wrong but it sounds to me like a possible minor bedding problem.

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Carlyle Hebert

[davpet]

southla,
thank you so much for your info. I've been trying to work up a load to shoot in competition and to practice with. This last time I used 40.0, 40.5, 40.9, 41.5, 42.0, 42.5, and 42.9. The 40.9 gave me the best groups at 100yds with 12 clicks up on the elevation and a 6 o'clock sight picture. I'd like to work up some loads for 200, 300 yards should I start with that 40.9 grain load and work up to say 44 or 45 or should I go higher.
I don't crimp my rounds is that a must or am I doing it ok without.
thanks for your input

Dave

[Target Shooter]

Dave,
That load of 40.9 grains is a very light load. The reason for the carbon fouling on the brass case is because your load doesn't produce enough pressure to properly seal the neck and shoulder in the chamber and prevent blow-by.
I shoot 48 grains of IMR 4895 and get 2" to 2 1/4" groups at 100 yards with the 147-grain FMJ bullets. I also shoot the same powder charge for the 150-grain bullet.

If you try 168g or 173-grain bullets try loading 45.5 to 46 grains of IMR 4895.
I also load Accurate Arms 2520 powder. Try this:
WIN Brass
WIN LR Primer
MIL MATCH 173G Bullet
AA 2520 / 45 grains

This load was giving me consistent 2 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Some groups even smaller. (These groups are off the bench with sandbags and open peep sights)

TS