opinions on bolt rifle for brush gun.

[GeauxTide]

It is undeniable that round nose "lever action type" bullets are deflected less than pointy "bolt action type" bullets. Heavier weight helps too.

There have been many articles and tests over the years that de-bunks that theory. Best I saw was a life size deer target 7 feet behind a brush pile. Nothing from 22LR to 375H&H hit the target. I picked a Bushmaster 450 Carbine because of size, weight, and effectiveness.

[ThomasT]

Since you asked for bolt action bolt guns my choice is my Remington model 7. The first version of this series with an 18" barrel, open sights and walnut stock. I like this gun not because I think the 7-08 round it is chambered in will shoot through brush but just because it is light weight and short. It has a leupold 2x7 scope that is a perfect match for this rifle.

I have hunted long enough to know that the odds you any hunter being able to "sneak up" on a deer in brush so thick you need a gun that you can swing around because of a short barrel is very slim to impossible. And I feel shooting through brush as thick as in that video that was posted is irresponsible.

And I have too much respect for the game to take a shot that may wound instead of kill. In brush that thick the odds of losing a wounded deer is very high. As for bullets that will shoot through brush? I don't think they exist. But I feel a heavy, slow bullet may have a better chance than a fast lightweight bullet. But I still wouldn't risk the shot no matter what I am armed with.

[Husqvarna]

Barrel blank just came in from McGowen for a custom .44 Rem Mag brush gun I'm building for a client on a Mosin-Nagant action.

All that action length for a 44mag?

seems unneccesary weight for a brush gun

[HiBC]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not in favor of chopping Savage 99's.
I had a friend who was a ranch type woman. She wanted a rifle for deer an maybe elk . It had to be a lever gun,and it had to be scoped.
She was about 5 ft 6 in.
I put together a basic 7x57 on a Mexican Mauser for her. She hated it. It wasn't a lever.
A local pawn shop had a 300 Savage 99 for a good price. It was in decent,but not exceptional shape.A shooter. I bought it,knowing it would not fit her and it would need work.
I adjusted it to suit her.I shortened the stock,fitted a pad,and shortened the barrel a bit.And I put a 4x Leupold Gold Ring on it.
I built her some 165 gr loads and I made some snap cap dummy rounds,cross drilled,with flexane primer pockets.I told her to dry fire at least 10 a day,as perfect as she could.
We went shooting. She could keep them inside 2 MOA,nearer 1 1/2.

I showed her she had a 12 MOA Duplex. I told her a buck mule deer was about 18 in whithers to brisket,so if the deer was smaller than her duplex,it was over 150 yds. Get closer.I know,a 300Savage has more potential. I was keeping it simple. She had enough to learn.
She went hunting. Told me the story. Said she ignored my advice,shot anyway at adeer too far. Broke his leg. Kentucky'd up a bit and killed him.
Her brothers got all interested in the rifle then. She would not let them touch it. Contrary woman!
I know she will never sell that rifle.
Yes,I believe in preserving the rifles. I also believe in helping a shooter with a good rifle that fits. I do not regret it. IMO,I did good.
No reason a short woman should not be able to enjoy a 99,too.

[dgludwig]

My two favorite "brush" guns are a Ruger MKII, RSI"International", chambered in .308 Winchester, mounted with a Leupold 1x4, VariXII scope, and a Savage Model 99 "Brush Gun", chambered in .358 Winchester, with a Williams "FoolProof" receiver sight on top. These two rifles handle well in the Pennsylvania thickets and Michigan cedar swamps I frequent, looking for whitetail bucks. Either cartridge will dump a deer on the spot if hit well but that .35 caliber, 200 grain bullet does "seem" to wend its way better through twigs and such.

[Gunplummer]

I can't get wrapped around a "Peg board test". For one thing, the pegs are solid. About 30 years ago (When Pa was still overrun with deer) I had come down off a mountain and was along a railroad tracks right by a town. A bullet went past right in front of me. It was moving pretty good because I heard it "Snap". It went through a hemlock tree(Christmas tree to you city folk) about two feet away on my right. There was one small branch swinging by the bark close to me on the outside, a couple small twigs and branches cut off laying in side and another half cut almost on the other side. It sure looked like a straight path to me. It may have been a ricochet off a boulder, because it was headed into town.
Back then there was so much shooting you really did not take notice. I do believe that size of the branch and bullet position have a large affect on bullet deflection. To say there is actual proof that there is no such thing as a "Brush gun" based on a silly peg board test is ludacris.

[Gunplummer]

I don't cut down anything nice. There are thousands of really beat up 99 Savage rifles out there. I just bought a stripped 99 receiver. Even the cartridge guide is gone. I have a brand new Green Mountain .338 barrel blank stashed and I am thinking .338 Federal (I already own a .358 Featherweight). Why would anyone care what you do with beater rifle?

This is a .308 that was found in a barn covered with rust. It is now a .260 Remington. There are plenty of beater rifles out there to build a brush gun. Bolt action, go Russian or Japanese. They are still cheap. There are actually a lot of commercial rifles that are beat up and cheap that can be cut down. You just have to keep your eyes open.


[IMG][/IMG]

[Mike Irwin]

You didn't say you were going to build your own .358 from parts.

That's different from taking a factory .358 and whacking away at it like a satanic elf.

[Gunplummer]

If you find one that is already in terrible shape, what does it matter? You have to find them before the dealers do. There are tons of parts for sale for older rifles, handguns and shotguns. Ever wonder where they all come from?

[Mike Irwin]

Chances of finding a factory .358 in "terrible shape" are FAR less likely than finding an action and building one up.

You made no distinction as to what you were recommending. It could have just as easily been "here, take this gold inlaid factory engraved Savage 99 presentation and whack the barrel back and make yourself a brush gun."

[Gunplummer]

Well, I would have to paint over the gold inlay if I used it for hunting.

[Gunplummer]

Seriously, it is amazing the way people peck at you for going "Bubba" on a gun when they have no idea what it looked like before that.

[salt and battery]

I would think that aiming thru brush with a scope should blur out the closest brush and you might shoot a small sapling that you could not see. front sites are totally blurred out from a scope

[the possum]

If they're that close, then you should also notice them immediately with yer unaided eyeballs. It's more helpful for seeing through stuff closer to your target, where it's far enough that everything looks sorta blurred together. There's plenty of situations where a scope won't make a difference as well. It's up to you if ya wanna carry the extra bulk and weight, and pass up shots ya might have had otherwise. That's fine, too.

[RC20]

I've done it and seen it/could have done it plenty of other times, even though I decided to pass on the shot for other reasons. Thick stands of saplings in a swamp often leave openings that are more vertical anyway. What's so funny about that? Are my actual experiences not "real world" enough for you?

It must be that thar lower 48 Brush.

[Wyosmith]

The handiest gun I ever hunted with in super heavy thick brush were revolvers. I Did well too.

But to be honest, of all the rifles I have used for hunting in the thick-stuff, only one was what most shooters think of as a "brush gun". I have hunted in thick brush with a 44" long barreled flintlock, and also several modern rifles with barrel of between 22" - 26" long. I never found them to be a big problem. I don't deny that my 19" barreled 30-06 is handier then my 27" 300 H&H, or 25" barreled 375H&H but not that much handier. Enough to notice true..., but not enough to make me wish I didn't have the 300 or 375.

Maybe I am the odd man out here, but I think short barrels are somewhat over rated in rifles. They will help a little, but only a little.
If a rifles is too long I start thinking handgun, not shorter rifle.

But that's just me.

[ThomasT]

wyosmith that was my earleir point. If the woods are so wooly you have to have a short rifle to get through them the odds of being able to injun up on a deer is very small.

I like the short 7-08 I mentioned because first its light to carry and second when slung on the shoulder it doesn't stick up past your head and get caught on branches and limbs when you duck down.

I started to mention handguns but the OP asked about rifles. I also just like my old open sighted model 94 winchester in 30-30. Not because I think it will shoot through brush but because its so handy to carry.

[Gunplummer]

Both good points. When I hunt a shotgun only area, I have a single shot dedicated to that. That gun is really short because of the receiver. I have moved through some thick laurel in a steady rain and had deer stand up less than 10 feet in front of me, but you really have to be quick.

[bamaranger]

I think short is NOT overrated......unless one's circumstances can benifit from the added heft, balance and velocity offered by longer tubes. Mine do not. My score on rifle killed whitetails in is not huge but respectable. I can count on one hand the number I have taken that were over 100 yds, and only two were past 200. All others were shot at less, usually MUCH less. Most were shot with light, short rifles, chambered in calibers far under '06 power. Elsewhere, or others, may need the balance and speed, I don't.

I realize this is the rifle forum, but let me digress w/ some shotgun comments. I am an obsessed spring gobbler hunter. I bought a 30" full choke gun when able because the guru's of the day touted velocity and sighting plane. One season as a healthy young man conviced me that lugging that pipe through the woods and over hill and dale to catch up with a rambling tom was too much. I spent way to much cash to get the shorter turkey barrel of the day, a 3inch mag, 26" factory full choke barrel. Within a few years, screw in chokes became the norm, and I obtained a 20" rifle sighted slug barrel and plunked a turkey choke on the muzzle, and have hunted that rig for over 20 years. I couldn't imagine going back to the 26" or heaven forbid, the 30 incher! Even bamaboy's 24" gun, which I borrow from time to time, seems clumsy and awkward through the brush. Spring gobbler and big game have much in common, a single good shot, from a stable, sometimes improvised position. Shooting from blinds is simpler due to the short factor too. And the whole rig is notably lighter. I have no designs on sneaking up on a gobbler, nor do I foresee killing many whitetails on the stalk these days.....but from point to point, shorter and lighter is way better.

As others have said, brush rifle cartridges do not bust brush.....but shorter and lighter gets through the brush easier, no doubt in my mind.

[Don Fischer]

For me, JMR40 has it right. Lazer flat trajectory! In the video, I can't imagine anyone trying to shoot through brush like that, that's how people get hurt! My old 660 Rem in 308 made a great gun for hunting in the brush. Had a 2 3/4x Redfield widefield on it. When I zero rifle's I do it for MPBR. Been years since I'd hunted anything like brush but back then I zero'd right on at 100yds. To do the same today I'd do MPBR at a 3" target. You'd have to adjust for the line of sight maybe through brush but if you can see well enough that the shot is possible, you can slip a bullet through the brush. Today the rifle I might try would be my mod 788 in 308 with 18" barrel. Have a 1-4x Redfield on it. But this year I'm hunting in brushier than normal for me and I'm gonna take my mod 70 ftr wgt in 6.5x55 w 2-7x Redfield. Bullet's no matter how big, heavy or small can be counted on the shoot through brush!

[Gunplummer]

All you naysayers of "Brush gun bullets" need to go back to post #5 and watch that video. I really don't care for that guy because he is hung up on Russian bolt guns, but he really nailed that test. I really have to wonder if some of the people on this forum ever went hunting other than in the recliner with an OUTDOOR LIFE magazine.

[dgludwig]

I really have to wonder if some of the people on this forum ever went hunting other than in the recliner with an OUTDOOR LIFE magazine.

I'm more of a Field & Stream guy.

[mete]

I laugh at the comments .Yes I've had a 44 mag deflect and a45-70 also so I know .Find a hole through the brush.
But ... in another forum a hunter in Africa a hunter shot an animal. They recovered the bullet but it looked strange . So he went back to the scene and found the brush he shot through included a mopane tree !! A very hard , tough wood but the bullet penetrated through to hit and kill the animal !!

[Gunplummer]

I think most people know a good excuse when they see it. Neither one is 100% of the time, but neither is hitting a branch. Why lower your percentage in a thick area with a high speed spitzer bullet? Watch that video. There is no argument. There it is.

[john in jax]

Looked at the Mossberg MVP Scout, Patrol or Flex in .308?