5.56 Powder Question

Drm50 · July 14, 2022, 11:39 AM

Up front I’ve loaded for close to 60 yrs. Loaded 223 since it came out , for bolt actions. Used BC-L2 / 55gr bullets. Now I have broke down and bought AR-15.
I want to load GI dupe for 55gr FMJs. What is the most economical powder to do this? I’ve not used many of the powders on market today. I’m running out of stash. I’m not wanting to use up my BC-L2 for AR loads. Have lots of IMR powders but not the best for 5.56 and POA to tap down in case.

**Unclenick** · July 14, 2022, 11:42 AM

It's no more economical than BL-(C)2, but H335 is canister grade WC844, which is the ball powder used by the military for M193. BL-(C)2 is canister grade WC846, which was first used in 303 British during WWII and was later adopted for M80 7.62 ammunition.

Shadow9mm · July 14, 2022, 11:48 AM

I have used several powders for my AR. with 55, 62, and 75g bullets. I have tried, Benchmark, Varget, BL-c2, h335, CFE223 and TAC.

so far I have found TAC, Varget, and BL-c2 to work best with heavier bullets.

Benchmark was low on the velocity size for duplicating military loads, but was very consistent.

I have had good results, breaking 3000fps out of a 16in barrel with a 55g bullet with CFE223. It is a pretty sooty powder, but the soot cleans up easily. with magnum primers SD and ES were acceptable, but were not good with standard primers.

I have more testing to do with H335, velocities have been low so far at Hornady max, but from my reading other manuals go higher.

jetinteriorguy · July 15, 2022, 05:18 AM

For 55gr bullets I’ve had good results with H335. For heavier bullets it’s pretty much a dead tie between H4895 and Varget.

mehavey · July 15, 2022, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclenick

H335

^^^ THIS ^^^

berettaprofessor · July 16, 2022, 01:34 PM

CFE223 and Varget are my established 52 and 55 grain loads, although I'm testing some 4895 in 62's and 68's and it looks promising.

reynolds357 · July 16, 2022, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drm50

Up front I’ve loaded for close to 60 yrs. Loaded 223 since it came out , for bolt actions. Used BC-L2 / 55gr bullets. Now I have broke down and bought AR-15.
I want to load GI dupe for 55gr FMJs. What is the most economical powder to do this? I’ve not used many of the powders on market today. I’m running out of stash. I’m not wanting to use up my BC-L2 for AR loads. Have lots of IMR powders but not the best for 5.56 and POA to tap down in case.

Since you did mention economical, Shooters World AR Plus is pretty hard to beat.

Road_Clam · July 16, 2022, 09:07 PM

All the above mentioned powders are excellent for gas gun 556. The only problem is they are the most popular powders so good luck finding any.

My goto far less popular gas gun 556 powder that is possible to find currently ? Win 748.

Bart B. · July 16, 2022, 10:01 PM

Ball powders are seldom, if ever, used in rifle competition to win and set records.

zeke · July 16, 2022, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Clam

All the above mentioned powders are excellent for gas gun 556. The only problem is they are the most popular powders so good luck finding any.

My goto far less popular gas gun 556 powder that is possible to find currently ? Win 748.

Yet another reason to consider 748, it has been more consistently available and less expensive. It is particularly good for 55 fmj, which ain't match bullets anyway. However have found 748 to be extremely accurate, consistently thrown through my measure and adaptable to other cartridges. Yes it is temp sensitive, but with the smaller 223 powder charges and lesser distances 55 fmj are usually shot at, not real noticeable changes.

It has performed better (accuracy) in 5.56 with mag primers, including rem 7 1/2's, in my experience.

reynolds357 · July 16, 2022, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart B.

Ball powders are seldom, if ever, used in rifle competition to win and set records.

Agreed. I don't think he wants to set any records. Just have good shooting ammo.

Road_Clam · July 17, 2022, 08:08 AM

My bulk gas gun 556 55 gr ammo is running 25.6 gr of W748 . I like using this load as 100 yd SR reduced High Power training. W748 isnt perfect but it's a dam versatile powder that also works very well in 308. W748 is a dirty powder , and it's somewhat temp sensitive but again i've had good sucess finding this powder during panics when the shelves are stripped of Varg / 4895 / 335 and so on.

Nathan · July 17, 2022, 08:11 AM

IMO, TAC and CFE223 are great AR15 powders

mehavey · July 17, 2022, 08:12 AM

Does the Gentle Reader include spherical AA 2520 in this "... meh..." category ?

**Unclenick** · July 17, 2022, 01:11 PM

I think 2520 is likely to do best with a magnum primer and with bullet weights at 62-grains and up to keep fouling down. With the 55-grain bullets he's looking to load for, I've used powders as fast as Reloader 10X and even IMR 4198. Benchmark and H322 are other possibilities for that weight. As with any quicker powder, you just want to be sure your gun functions well with them. They won't produce tip-top velocities without going over pressure, but I've found them good for general range fodder.

FrankenMauser · July 17, 2022, 04:41 PM

Most 55 gr bullets sit on powder charges of 22 to 26 gr, with a few outlying powders that range as low as 19 gr and as high as 28 gr.
Unless you really want to use an outlier, it doesn't matter too much which powder you choose. (So using what is available to you shouldn't be a big deal.)

However, I have found RL-10X and CFE223 to be absolutely filthy in all applications where I have tried them.
Avoid those powders if you don't like excess soot and grime.

My ARs eat a lot of Ramshot TAC.

mehavey · July 17, 2022, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleNivk

2520 is likely to do best with a magnum primer and with bullet weights at 62-grains and up...

Concur w/ Heavy/Mag
GoTo AR (Hvy) Load w/ AA2520

reynolds357 · July 17, 2022, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankenMauser

Most 55 gr bullets sit on powder charges of 22 to 26 gr, with a few outlying powders that range as low as 19 gr and as high as 28 gr.
Unless you really want to use an outlier, it doesn't matter too much which powder you choose. (So using what is available to you shouldn't be a big deal.)

However, I have found RL-10X and CFE223 to be absolutely filthy in all applications where I have tried them.
Avoid those powders if you don't like excess soot and grime.

My ARs eat a lot of Ramshot TAC.

That's odd. Cfe 223 is one of the cleanest powders I have ever seen. It's only clean at near max. It makes a nasty looking carbon in the bore, but it self limits how much can build up. I put a few hundred down my White Oak barrel without cleaning. It's still dirty in the safe and still shoots 2 1/2" groups at 400 yds. The rate it's going, it may never get cleaned.

**Unclenick** · July 17, 2022, 07:16 PM

Keep in mind that peak pressure has a lot to do with fouling levels. Too little temperature and pressure and you wind up with more fouling than when pressures are run nearer the top of the range.

Jim Watson · July 17, 2022, 07:27 PM

I tried hard to like AA2520, it metered so well. But in two .308 barrels and a .223, it was just not quite as accurate as extruded powders. MY barrels. Good luck with yours.

hounddawg · July 17, 2022, 09:46 PM

TAC is cheap and available, works great with 69 and 77 SMK's out to 600 yards

reynolds357 · July 18, 2022, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hounddawg

TAC is cheap and available, works great with 69 and 77 SMK's out to 600 yards

It's available, but from what I see it's not any cheaper than anything except Vhitavuri, Norma, and IMR Enduring line.

Old 454 · July 18, 2022, 05:36 PM

I was able to get 16 lbs of LT-32. It shoots great with 55 grain bullets it’s just a dirty girl of powder

akinswi · July 18, 2022, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drm50

Up front I’ve loaded for close to 60 yrs. Loaded 223 since it came out , for bolt actions. Used BC-L2 / 55gr bullets. Now I have broke down and bought AR-15.
I want to load GI dupe for 55gr FMJs. What is the most economical powder to do this? I’ve not used many of the powders on market today. I’m running out of stash. I’m not wanting to use up my BC-L2 for AR loads. Have lots of IMR powders but not the best for 5.56 and POA to tap down in case.

IMR4895 works well for me in 223, Works Well in .308 works well in 30-06. It may not be the absolute best , but it gets the Job done.

Bart B is absolutely correct I never had any great luck with ball powders at all as far as accuracy, and in bigger cases like 30-06 you really need a magnum primers to ignites those the best.

I have several jugs of 846, 844 just sitting on the shelf now to be used for plinking purposes

dahermit · July 18, 2022, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart B.

Ball powders are seldom, if ever, used in rifle competition to win and set records.

It is a good thing that he is looking for a G.I. 55fmj duplication load, not the most "accurate" load.

Wouldn't the G.I. duplication load use Midwest Powders WC844? Isn't that the supplus powder obtained by pulling down G.I. 5.56/55fmj loads?

July 14, 2022, 11:39 AM	#1
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,380	5.56 Powder Question Up front I’ve loaded for close to 60 yrs. Loaded 223 since it came out , for bolt actions. Used BC-L2 / 55gr bullets. Now I have broke down and bought AR-15. I want to load GI dupe for 55gr FMJs. What is the most economical powder to do this? I’ve not used many of the powders on market today. I’m running out of stash. I’m not wanting to use up my BC-L2 for AR loads. Have lots of IMR powders but not the best for 5.56 and POA to tap down in case.

July 14, 2022, 11:42 AM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	It's no more economical than BL-(C)2, but H335 is canister grade WC844, which is the ball powder used by the military for M193. BL-(C)2 is canister grade WC846, which was first used in 303 British during WWII and was later adopted for M80 7.62 ammunition. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 14, 2022, 11:48 AM	#3
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,973	I have used several powders for my AR. with 55, 62, and 75g bullets. I have tried, Benchmark, Varget, BL-c2, h335, CFE223 and TAC. so far I have found TAC, Varget, and BL-c2 to work best with heavier bullets. Benchmark was low on the velocity size for duplicating military loads, but was very consistent. I have had good results, breaking 3000fps out of a 16in barrel with a 55g bullet with CFE223. It is a pretty sooty powder, but the soot cleans up easily. with magnum primers SD and ES were acceptable, but were not good with standard primers. I have more testing to do with H335, velocities have been low so far at Hornady max, but from my reading other manuals go higher. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

July 16, 2022, 01:34 PM	#6
berettaprofessor Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Posts: 1,091	CFE223 and Varget are my established 52 and 55 grain loads, although I'm testing some 4895 in 62's and 68's and it looks promising. __________________ "What most people forget is that the first country the Nazi's conquered was their own." 44AMP on thefiringline.com

July 16, 2022, 09:07 PM	#8
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	All the above mentioned powders are excellent for gas gun 556. The only problem is they are the most popular powders so good luck finding any. My goto far less popular gas gun 556 powder that is possible to find currently ? Win 748. __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

July 15, 2022, 05:18 AM	#4
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,175	For 55gr bullets I’ve had good results with H335. For heavier bullets it’s pretty much a dead tie between H4895 and Varget.

July 16, 2022, 10:01 PM	#9
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Ball powders are seldom, if ever, used in rifle competition to win and set records.

July 17, 2022, 08:08 AM	#12
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	My bulk gas gun 556 55 gr ammo is running 25.6 gr of W748 . I like using this load as 100 yd SR reduced High Power training. W748 isnt perfect but it's a dam versatile powder that also works very well in 308. W748 is a dirty powder , and it's somewhat temp sensitive but again i've had good sucess finding this powder during panics when the shelves are stripped of Varg / 4895 / 335 and so on. __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

July 17, 2022, 08:11 AM	#13
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	IMO, TAC and CFE223 are great AR15 powders

July 17, 2022, 08:12 AM	#14
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	Does the Gentle Reader include spherical AA 2520 in this "... meh..." category ?

July 17, 2022, 01:11 PM	#15
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I think 2520 is likely to do best with a magnum primer and with bullet weights at 62-grains and up to keep fouling down. With the 55-grain bullets he's looking to load for, I've used powders as fast as Reloader 10X and even IMR 4198. Benchmark and H322 are other possibilities for that weight. As with any quicker powder, you just want to be sure your gun functions well with them. They won't produce tip-top velocities without going over pressure, but I've found them good for general range fodder. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 17, 2022, 04:41 PM	#16
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Most 55 gr bullets sit on powder charges of 22 to 26 gr, with a few outlying powders that range as low as 19 gr and as high as 28 gr. Unless you really want to use an outlier, it doesn't matter too much which powder you choose. (So using what is available to you shouldn't be a big deal.) However, I have found RL-10X and CFE223 to be absolutely filthy in all applications where I have tried them. Avoid those powders if you don't like excess soot and grime. My ARs eat a lot of Ramshot TAC. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

July 17, 2022, 07:16 PM	#19
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Keep in mind that peak pressure has a lot to do with fouling levels. Too little temperature and pressure and you wind up with more fouling than when pressures are run nearer the top of the range. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 17, 2022, 07:27 PM	#20
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I tried hard to like AA2520, it metered so well. But in two .308 barrels and a .223, it was just not quite as accurate as extruded powders. MY barrels. Good luck with yours.

July 17, 2022, 09:46 PM	#21
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	TAC is cheap and available, works great with 69 and 77 SMK's out to 600 yards __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

July 18, 2022, 05:36 PM	#23
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 822	I was able to get 16 lbs of LT-32. It shoots great with 55 grain bullets it’s just a dirty girl of powder