model 88, 308 magazine

[garretttpe]

I just bought a Winchester model 88 chambered in 308, S/N 123209A at an online auction. this is from 1961 but the A should be a model 100 I read, it has also been modified for the 284 caliber,, My issue is the magazine will not lock, It is a type 2 from what I researched, it looks like it is hitting the ramp of the receiver, the action is smooth as silk, ejects the round very nicely and the trigger seems fine, I need help in finding the correct magazine for the weapon please, I do not want to spend 200 dollars on trying different magazine's and Hope someone here can help me out.

Will send pictures later if anyone thinks it will help

thank you
Larry

[JasoninSD]

Larry,

Did you buy a lever action or a semi-auto rifle? The 88 is a lever action and the 100 is a semi-auto. The magazines are mostly interchangeable but as I recall, the 100 will not lock back on an 88 magazine. But it has been a number of years since I have shot a 100 so I could be mistaken.

Jason

[T. O'Heir]

$43.75 at Gunparts. It says, .243 and .308, but the .284 is a .308 based case. It might need a different follower though. Gunparts has none of those.
The M88 wasn't factory chambered in .284(which has a bit wider case) until 1963. You know if the mag has ever worked properly?
"...magazine will not lock..." That may be the mag or the mag lock. However, according to this guy the .284 mag is different. There's a paragraph about the .284 mag a bit more than half way down.
http://www.leeroysramblings.com/Gun%..._100_info.html

[Scorch]

but the .284 is a .308 based case. It might need a different follower though.

.284 Winchester is definitely NOT a 308-based cartridge. It is a rebated rim design, with the rim size of a 308/30-06, and a body diameter of approximately the size of a magnum case. The purpose of the cartridge was to approach magnum-level performance in a shorter case that fit a standard bolt face.

The M88 wasn't factory chambered in .284(which has a bit wider case) until 1963

That's because the cartridge wasn't introduced by Winchester until . . . 1963!

It might need a different follower though

The magazine for the .284 is marked "284 ONLY", it has a different follower and the feed lips are different. If you do find one, expect to pay a premium for it.

[garretttpe]

Did you buy a lever action or a semi-auto rifle?.. Yes I bought a lever action, trust me I do know the difference, not hard to tell the diff. According to the website and pictures on "leeroysramblings" the receiver has been chambered for a 284 and will also work for 308, the barrel is 308, the suffix "A" after the S/N is confusing as that supposedly is a model 100 but the barrel says model 88 308, the magazine will not sit all the way into the receiver and it appears to be hitting the receiver ramp and will not drop down enough to lock, I think sometime after 1961 it was sent back to the factory for a repair or something and that is when it the receiver modified for the 284, either way the magazine that came with the rifle will not lock and I need to find out why before I spend 2 hundred dollars on the 4 diff type of magazines.

thank you all for the responses

[PatientWolf]

Did you buy a lever action or a semi-auto rifle?.. Yes I bought a lever action, trust me I do know the difference, not hard to tell the diff.

I didn’t see anything malicious in his comment, just looking for clarification of your original post, which I also found confusing in the way it was worded. If you are looking for help, it might be worthwhile to consider that people here want to help. Responses like this may make people less likely to spend their time if their requests for clarification get snide responses.

YMMV.

[JasoninSD]

Larry,

So you mean that the magazine will not lock into place in the receiver? I thought you were talking about a last shot hold open on a 100. Unfortunately, I do not have an 88 in .284 (but I would love to find one at a decent price).

I just checked a pre-64 model 100 and there is no "A" in the serial #. A pre-64 model 88 has no "A" in the serial #. A post-64 model 88 does have an "A" in the serial number. Looking at the magazines, they are the same except for the follower being marked model 88 or 100. The 100 follower is shaped to act as a last shot hold open on the semi-auto. The 100 magazine will also lock the bolt back on the 88. There are no other markings on the body of the magazine except for "Winchester" on the base. Again, I don't have a 284 so I am not sure what markings those might have.

If it is an issue with the magazine not locking into place in the receiver, could the groove and/or latch be rounded over?

Jason

[bamaranger]

Trying to sort out your OP and subsequent responses. I doubt the factory rechambered the rifle in .284 and left a barrel stamped .308. I suspect somebody else rechambered a .308 barrel and (re) attached it to your receiver. Theoretically, a .308 cartridge could chamber and possibly fire, with bad consequences, seems unlikely the factory would condone such a swap, perform same, and not mark the barrel. I think a home job, and a poor one if the barrel was not restamped for the new chambering.

If JasoninSD is correct, your serial number places the rifle receiver in the post'64 category. What makes you think the rifle is mfg'd in 1961 and should be a Model 100? BTW a post '64 stock will have stamped checkering. Either way, since your rifle is (now) a .284, you will likely need the specific .284 magazine. The .284 magazines may be configured a bit differently on the forward wall, as the case is a larger dia........I dunno.

[Jim Watson]

Do you not have return rights? Sounds like you got a parts gun.
Or maybe rechambered to .30-284.

[bobn]

as a mildly interested 88/100 fan i can tell you that there are diff mags for diff guns. something to do with the length of the slot were it engages the latch.
.... i have one of those mags that doesnt latch in the guns i have. perhaps you can post a pic of that slot on the mag you have. i will check that extra mag i have. fwiw bobn

[jrothWA]

they bought the tooling for the M88 / m100 firearms.
The M88 mag would close when emptied as the follower was a smooth one piece unite,
the M100 had a step that kept the action open after last shot was fired.

Post photo's!

[garretttpe]

thank you all for the response, I have a factory stamped barrel S/N 123209"A".
1961 per Winchester. Winchester did machine the receiver to accept a 284 round, http://www.leeroysramblings.com/Gun%..._100_info.html

The gun smith I just went to has 2 of same exact models and modifications with the "A" prefix on his also, that are pre 1964, the magazine I have will fit into 1 of them but not the other, the magazine that fits into his 2nd one and mine has a weird cut on top of the magazine where the case rides
the pictures shows mine on the right that does not work and the one on left is the one that does work, it looks like I can by the magazine that is cut out al over EBAY for 80-90 dollars, seems like the factory did some weird mods to the rifles and magazines in the day, I would have though with the one gentleman who said it is a piece meal rifle but seeing that there are 2 at the gunsmiths and the magazines readily available makes me think not.

thanks all for the response and I did not intend to come off in a bad way and deeply apologize if I have

[PatientWolf]

Interesting. Looks like you found your “answer” which may also be part mystery.

I have no knowledge to tell me one way or another, but I wonder if the barrels could be interchangeable between the lever and automatic, but if the automatic barrel lacks a cut that allows the Mag you have to fit.

I suspect “back in the day” there were more running changes in a model that were affected functionality. Today, I expect there is a lot more thought out into forward and backward compatibility affected by changes.

[garretttpe]

looks like this is a 243/308 magazine that works in mine, Hope thi smight help someone someday.
Larry

[bamaranger]

I am now totally confused. I have not read the Leroy material in depth, but I see nothing at first review that states that the Winchester factory rechambered or modified the M88 series to different calibers. What I do see is a statement that indicates that the M88 were NEVER offered with replacement barrels.

If the OP rifle BARREL is marked for .308 , but actually is chambered for .284, something is amiss.

So....garretttpe....without any comment on your receiver serial number or magazine, what cartridge is your rifle BARREL chambered for, and how how is the BARREL marked?

If the barrel is marked .308, but chamberd in .284, how do you know this?

[wachtelhund1]

As someone who is extremely fond of the Win 100 rifles and carbines, I find these posts confusing. The important point here is the .308 barrel is a 30 caliber bore and the .284 is a .277 bore (I believe). Point is the .284 bore is a smaller bore. Both cartridges are high pressure rounds so the barrel can not just be relined to a smaller bore. Firing a .277 bullet out of a 30 caliber bore would have terrible accuracy.

[eastbank]

sounds like a money pit.

[Jim Watson]

model 88 chambered in 308... it has also been modified for the 284 caliber,

I am similarly confused; what goes in the chamber? What goes down the barrel?

[garretttpe]

thanks for all the responses, I travel alot and dont have a lot of time to respond. when I get back home I will take detail pics of the rifle and all markings. might help someone in the future.my barrel is for a 308, the chamber is 308 and feeds and cycles great with .308 rounds. the magazine has a cut out to fit a .243, there were 3 diff magazines and this is the one that fits mine, correct pre 1961 did not have a "A" prefix unless it went back to the factory then they did stamp "A" as the S/N denotes 1961 so sometime between 1961 and 1964 the rifle went back to the factory. attached is a picture of the rifle.

[bamaranger]

Alright, ..... you have a pre64 M88, chambered in .308, that you believe went back to the factory for some reason and was stamped to denote same by the addition of an "A". You needed a functional magazine, which it sounds like you obtained.

OK, got it.

At risk of more confusion........what did .284 have to do with any of this?

[PatientWolf]

Sorry, but now I have become confused again. The .308 Win and .243 Win AFAIK, should use the exact same magazine. There should not be any “extra cutout” needed for a .243 Win if it’s not needed for the .308 Win.

[garretttpe]

Hi All
sorry if there is confusion, I tend to post what information on what I have read and researched which can be wrong or misleading in hopes some people with far more experience then me can help sort out. I am out of my home state and when I return I will send detailed pictures of the magazine that came with the rifle and the one that works, barrel identification pics, inside the receiver etc. I am sorry for the .284 posts but at one time some research showed the receiver was also cut to except a .284...I hope to be home in the next 3 weeks. below is an incredible amount of info that I used to find the magazine I needed.
http://www.leeroysramblings.com/Gun%..._100_info.html.
all I got
Larry

[handlerer2]

The 284Win is not a 308 based case. The rim diameter is the same as a 308. The 284 is a rebated rim design, where the case body is larger in diameter than the case rim.

I have no knowledge of these Savage rifles, but I do know that extra consideration is necessary when designing magazines for these rebated rim cartridges.

One of the original such cartridges the 404Jefferies was scorned
by PH's in Africa because they had a tendency to jam when feeding.

I own a 6.5-284win rifle, so I know this from reading various reloading manuals.

[wachtelhund1]

Actually the 404 Jeffery was liked in Africa because it was a rimless cartridge and fed better than many of the rimmed cartridges of the time. 404 Jeffery is not a rebated cartridge as the 284 win. I shoot a 330 Dakota and make my cases from the 404 Jeffery case.

[PatientWolf]

Got it. In post #19 you wrote .243, but in your follow up post you indicated .284.

I think you meant .284 in post #19.