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Old December 14, 2017, 09:17 PM   #1
misterE
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Help me pick a low light scope

Hey guys, I've decided to upgrade the scope on my Rem700 5r 300WM. I've got a leupold vx-2 6-18x40mm on it now. Love that scope but here lately, I've got deer coming out right before the end of shooting light at 250 yards on a food plot I hunt and I'm having a really hard time making out their racks. The image is definitely brighter on 6 power but that's not quite enough magnification for me to determine what size rack etc. At 18 power a little bit earlier than right before dark I have plenty of magnification, but the image gets too dark by the time these late season deer are coming out.

So, I'm thinking I've got plenty of magnification but not enough light transmission. I've never had a 50mm bell because I've always wanted the scope as low as possible for a better cheek weld. This situation has me leaning that way however. Please chime in if you have experience with 40mm vs. 50mm in low light conditions. Also, any scope recommendations would be appreciated. Trying to keep budget around $1000. This rifle deserves it. It is crazy accurate. I've always been a leupold guy but I'm not opposed to going another way in this situation. Right now I'm considering a vx-3 4.5-14x50mm.

Thanks in advance.
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Old December 14, 2017, 09:31 PM   #2
ireload2
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Get a good binocular instead.
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Old December 14, 2017, 09:35 PM   #3
misterE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ireload2 View Post
Get a good binocular instead.
Thought about that, but haven't looked into any. Any suggestions? I've got some 10x leupold binoculars (not sure on objective- think 25mm), and I can see better out of the scope on the rifle
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Old December 14, 2017, 10:11 PM   #4
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You are probably going to want an optic with an exit pupil of at least 4mm and possibly 5mm or more. The exit pupil is the objective lens diameter divided by the magnification. Your 6-18X40 has an exit pupil of 6.7mm at 6X, but the exit pupil is only 2.2mm at 18X. That is why things appear bright enough at 6X but too dim at 18X when the ambient light level gets low.

A decent pair of 10X50 binoculars will probably get you there (assuming 10X is sufficient magnification). A far as scopes, you're probably looking a one with a 50mm or larger diameter objective. And as you noted, such a scope would need to sit higher above the barrel and probably be less comfortable to use.

Optical coatings and lens quality help some, but the exit pupil is probably most important in low light given the generally good optical qualities of decent scopes and binoculars today.
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Old December 14, 2017, 10:58 PM   #5
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Get a good scope AND good binocs, or you’ll do what I did. Years ago I had great binocs (Leica) and a decent scope. One dim evening, as light died, here came a nice buck and a few doe. Picked up the rifle to shoot the buck, but couldn’t tell which one he was. Dang! Well, let’s count from that oak tree. Ok, he’s the fifth deer from the tree. Shot him. Or rather, I shot her. The deer shuffled places as I picked up the rifle. It’s been maybe 30 years since then, and put a little whiskey in my cousin and I will hear all about it AGAIN. Never ending pain. So...good binocs and a good scope are what the OP needs. Trust me.

As for what binocs and what scope, there are many options. Zeiss is good, as is Swarovski, or a blend like mine of Leica binocs and a high end Leupold scope. It’s only money, but it may keep you from the 30 years of grief from a cousin. It’s merciless.
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Old December 14, 2017, 11:25 PM   #6
misterE
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BBarn- thanks for that simple explanation. Makes a whole lot of sense. A buddy of mine has a couple of the vx3L scopes with the 56mm bell notched out. Too bad leupold discontinued them. May try to find one of those on eBay.

603country- your story is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. The other night there were 16 deer in the food plot- all past 225 yards by the time it got dark. I'm pretty sure that the last one that stepped out was a huge 8pt I've been hunting for 3 years cause his body was WAY bigger than the other deer but I couldn't see a horn at all.
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Old December 14, 2017, 11:26 PM   #7
lefteye
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A Leupold 6-18x is a good varmint scope but not good for deer hunting. A 2.5-8x (or 3-9x) is a much better scope for big game hunting, and is certainly much better for low light hunting (dawn or dusk.) I have a Leupold 2.5-8x on my .270 Win and my .300 Win Mag and have taken deer, elk and one small black bear at ranges slightly exceeding 400 yards. Good quality binoculars are essential to evaluate the size and quality of a big game animal. Binoculars are much easier to use and require much less movement to see and evaluate a potential trophy animal.
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Old December 15, 2017, 01:12 AM   #8
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Shooting in near dark makes for some hard tracking. By the time you get to the spot of the hit it'll be dark. Is it still legal to shoot that late there??

Also, it is difficult to see what is behind the animal. I am certain that as a responsible hunter, you already know that.

Check out Optics Planet for some guides or comparisons.
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Old December 15, 2017, 06:24 AM   #9
Art Eatman
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Either a 3-9x50 scope or 10x50 binoculars should solve the problem. I would not buy cheap binocs, but high-end aren't a necessity.

As near as I can tell, the main advantage to high-end binocs is that there is little (or lesser) eyestrain with lengthy periods of glassing the countryside.
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Old December 15, 2017, 06:37 AM   #10
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Rifle scopes aren't meant for "rack scoring at dusk". Any bino over 10 x 50 is going to be obnoxious to carry and use. If that's not good enough, you're hunting too late or set up too far away.
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Old December 15, 2017, 08:40 AM   #11
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Dufus- in arkansas we can hunt until 30 min after sunset. I have "responsibly" killed dozens of deer in that last 30 minutes. Just not that far away. that's the whole reason for my post was to get y'all's input on scopes and optics so I might possibly extend my responsible range. Have no problem tracking at night if necessary. I actually see blood better at night with a good led flashlight.
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Old December 15, 2017, 09:04 AM   #12
Saltydog235
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EuroOptic has the Leica ER5 on sale now, a fantastic low light optic for well under your budget. The glass in these scopes punches way above it's weight class.

A Trijicon would fit the bill for you too, I've killed quite a few critters 45 minutes to an hour after sunset behind one.
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Old December 15, 2017, 09:12 AM   #13
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Help me pick a low light scope

Binoculars are the way to go. I have a pair of Leupold Wind River Olympic 10x50 binoculars that sold for around $350.00-$400.00 15 years ago and they work fantastic in low light viewing. Today the binoculars in the $400.00 range are even better. Binoculars will allow you to enjoy them all year long for dozens of different viewing activities. Do yourself a favor and buy a quality pair. You will not regret it. Don't rule out used binoculars. I have seen a good pair of binoculars like mine sell for under $200.00 and they still carry the Leupold warranty!
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Old December 15, 2017, 09:34 AM   #14
603Country
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A few of you guys are recommending that the OP gets some decent binocs, expecting that purchase to solve his problem of seeing well at dusk. That isn’t all of the solution, because his scope is the present problem. With the new binocs he’ll see the big buck, but his scope will still keep him from making the shot. He needs binocs and a scope. I’ll recommend the Leupold VX3 4.5-14 as a good scope for dim light. It’s in his price range and I like the couple of them I have. As for the binocs, i’m still using my old Leicas, so recommendations need to come from you fellows.
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Old December 15, 2017, 10:10 AM   #15
Saltydog235
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He could get a set of Steiner Predator 10X42’s and one of those Leica and have money left over for ammo.

I have two Leupold VX3’s, I don’t hunt with them though. Compared to the Trijicons, Leica, S&B, Ziess and NF’s I have, they aren’t even on the middle of the performance index for low light.
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Old December 15, 2017, 10:49 AM   #16
OzeanJaeger
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I don't see how binoculars are going to help him shoot in low light either...!?!?!?!

Leupold 3-9x50mm Rifleman Rifle Scope
Vortex Optics Viper HS 4-16x50
Trijicon TR29 AccuPoint 4-16x50

These are all good low light scopes. I think the difference in price isn't commensurate with quality because of diminishing returns. Used on low power you'll be shocked at how bright and clear the buck becomes when you bring the rifle up, and yes, you can certainly count points with them (+30min, -30min) during legal shooting time. Where they really shine is on a cloudy day when it's dark, dark.

I am completely at odds with anyone who feels that a 50mm scope is so much bigger and heavier. I don't notice it at all, but I certainly notice how much brighter they are. I also don't believe that the 1X difference of a min X3 or min X4 makes much of a difference anymore because generally these scopes have a nice, wide field of view on low power.

S&B, Leica, and Swarofski, Leupold used to be far superior in terms of light transmission and clairity, but I feel like in the last 20 or so years almost all the good scopes have caught up. You can get a hell of a scope for $300. Similar quality 20 years ago would cost you a grand.
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Old December 15, 2017, 11:58 AM   #17
misterE
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Thanks for all the replies guys. I think I'm definitely leaning towards just replacing scope. That rifle is heavy- I only use that rifle for hunting out of 2 box stands I built that have a 2' wide shelf out the window to shoot off of. Lends itself to easy glassing through rifle scope as long as there's enough light.

I will definitely be goin 50mm objective or bigger and will look into all the recommendations. I really wish leupold still made the VX-3L with the notched out objective. May try to snatch one of those off ebay. I've got a viper vortex on another rifle and just don't really care for the lack of eye relief. Otherwise great scope.
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Old December 15, 2017, 12:06 PM   #18
603Country
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Well...the new scope will give you the better low light vis, but you really should get at least a decent pair of binocs. Waving the rifle around is tiring and creates too much movement. At least get a pair of 10 power Nikons. I have several of them around the house for watching deer in the yard. It’s good glass and not very expensive. It isn’t Zeiss, but it will do.
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Old December 15, 2017, 01:42 PM   #19
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misterE: here is what I wanted you to read from Optics Planet concerning light transmission.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/howto/h...ye-relief.html
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Old December 15, 2017, 02:03 PM   #20
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Mister E, I took a leupold vx3, 3.5-10x50 to SC deer hunting last month and I was very impressed with its light gathering. There was a buck in the corn about 100 yds out very early one morning and with my binos I couldnt really make out the points, with the scope I could..shot it, my biggest rack ever 13pt and it was 15 mins before sunrise..I have 50mm opjectives on most of my hunting rifles and after using that leupold down south all my hunting rifles will have 50mm's
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Old December 15, 2017, 02:54 PM   #21
Don Fischer
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I would not get a x50 scope, raise's the height above the barrel and adds bulk to the rifle. I would go max 3-9x40. Myself I would go 2-7x40. you don't need all that power, especially for 250yd shooting. Was out with my son a while back and had my 30-06. We found a rock about 10" to 12" on a hill side. My 30-06 has a straight 2 3/4x Denver Redfield on it. Shooting at the rock, measured 330yds, I shot six time's and centered the rock every time. A lot of people get those high power scope's because they think they will shoot better with them, ya know, the better you see the better you shoot. Right to some degree! If the target is a 1" circle at 300 yds, yep, high power let' you see better. But if the target is 8" at that same range, the rule change's. Get out there with even just a straight 4x and you have plenty of scope. One thing you need to be able to do at the longer ranges is find the target quickly. Compare the field of view between a 2x and a 6x at 300 yds! Better yet if you think you need to see better, compare the 2x or even the 4x against the 16x end of a scope.

I think if a guy got into a shooting match with someone with one of those high power scope's using his 2x scope or even a 4x scope, don't bet the farm you can best him. At the target you'll be shooting in a match, it is possible, even probable that your cross wire's will hide the aiming. Go to the same distance and make the target 8". The ability of the shooter then is more necessary than the power of the scope! Decide what you want from your rifle then choose your scope. There's a reason my scope on my 30-06 is what it is. My 308 has a 1-4x Denver Redfield, My 6.5x06 has a target scope on it but I haven't hunted it in years.. My 6.5x55 has a 2-7x and I would not consider changing it, 25-06 a 3-9x. one 243 a 2-7x and the other another 3-9x power. I have never felt the need with any of them to use over 6x much and on the 6.5x06 I have never gone over 8x with it, it' a 4 1/2x14x
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Old December 15, 2017, 04:51 PM   #22
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Lots of difference between wide open spaces and a pine plantation or Carolina bay where you’re in a tunnel basically and you need an optic that gathers all the light you can get. I don’t have a 40mm scope that comes close to the performance level of one of my 50 or 56mm optics in those places. And while they may have 15 or 20X Mag on the high end, I rarely hunt above 6X. The times I do are when I’ve got good light and am head shooting a sookie from a good rest.

As to raising the height, a simple stock pack or riser eliminates that issue.
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Old December 15, 2017, 05:25 PM   #23
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I am right there with Saltydog235 100%!!!!!
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Old December 15, 2017, 05:55 PM   #24
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We in New Zealand have a different situation. I am onto a thermal image scope as we shoot all through the night in virgin Forest and nowhere near any other shooters. Since we are shooting for meat and Deer are in plague proportions we are not interested in heads and go for a spiker. (Yearling Buck) Using a thermal image sight is far safer than Spot-lighting as you cant identify if the shiny eyes are a Deer, wild boar a person with a lazer headlight or just pesky possums unless your 50 metre range.
Yes thought I throw in another slant on night shooting.
No rules here in NZ. Deer are on the Noxious Pest list. 365 days and No limits.
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Old December 15, 2017, 06:29 PM   #25
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Something no one has mentioned yet is stalking closer to your prey.
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