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Old November 21, 2017, 01:36 PM   #26
dahermit
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Old November 21, 2017, 01:40 PM   #27
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Then we have the ambiguous, "well balanced". I cannot think of a better example of "feels good in the hand" and "well balanced" as a P08 with a four-inch barrel. All the "right" platitudes, but still not a very shootable gun with all its weight in the hand resulting in very poor pointability. But, it sure "feels" good. Get an Artillery or Navel model P08 with their long barrels and add barrel weights and one will understand what I am talking about.

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Old November 21, 2017, 02:13 PM   #28
Bill DeShivs
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These terms are mostly used by neophytes who have no idea how a gun SHOULD feel in their hand.....
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Old November 22, 2017, 08:17 AM   #29
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My CZ 75B, CZ P-01, BHP, and my HK P30 9mm, P2000 9mm, and HK45 all feel great in my hand, all balance beautifully, and all shoot great at the range. I’ve always preferred my smaller SIGs (P6, P228, M11-A1), over the larger SIGs, I just never really cared for the P220 I once owned, although I can shoot my P226 in .40S&W very well.

My Ruger SR1911 Commander Length is better balanced than the full length 1911’s I have and is almost as accurate. My STI Trojan 9mm 1911 has the thin STI grips which doesn’t fit my shooting hand as well as the thicker 1911 grips; but I still shoot this gun very well.

My Glocks, well despite their lack of ergonomics, my Gen3 17 & 19 and Gen4 21 are all reliable and accurate shooters.

IMHO, my revolvers need 4” or longer barrels to shoot accurately, my 617 and 686 are both 6” and are both fantastic shooters, but a longer barreled revolver don’t look as good or balance as well as a shorter barreled version.
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Old November 22, 2017, 12:21 PM   #30
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IMHO, my revolvers need 4” or longer barrels to shoot accurately, my 617 and 686 are both 6” and are both fantastic shooters, but a longer barreled revolver don’t look as good or balance as well as a shorter barreled version.
For those of us who need specifics to understand, would you please define what "good balance" is?
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Old November 22, 2017, 12:54 PM   #31
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I believe that would be a position somewhere between Diarrhea and Constipation. That is "good balance".
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Old November 22, 2017, 02:07 PM   #32
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I prefer one that feels good and points naturally whether a pistol or a long gun.
Why do so many companies offer interchangeable backstraps and such. Why do most professional rifle shooters use adjustable stocks. High end sporting clay guns offer almost infinite adjustments to fit each person.

Fit/feel is just as an important piece of the puzzle as sights, trigger, barrel and ammo. IMHO

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Old November 23, 2017, 06:54 PM   #33
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It’s all part of the equation.

If it feels good. You’ll shoot it more, you’ll be more accurate.

A 1911 does it for me. Of course, I’ve shot thousands and thousands of rounds through a 1911 in th IPSC days.

I had to give up that gun for an issued Glock 35.

Felt awful in my hand. I can shoot it well , just never as well as a 1911.

I also have dainty little girl hands. So the majority of double stacks just don’t fit my hand well. Period. Can’t change that. Doesn’t feel as good...don’t shoot it as often...don’t like it....didn’t have a choice.

Now, the Kahr T9? Literally, it’s like I sent them my hand and said “build a gun to fit that...”
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Old November 24, 2017, 09:18 AM   #34
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I have owned a lot of handguns over the last 30+ years, some that felt good and some that didn't. As far as how this affected my accuracy in shooting them, it varied. But, I've only kept the ones that both felt good and shot good. I only keep guns that I like and can shoot good. I have one right now that feels good but only shoots so so for me, but it's resale value is pretty much zilch so I'm keeping it. I also have one more I'm on the fence about, it shoots ok, not great but good enough. It's also fairly good feeling in the hand but not great. I really want to like and keep this gun, so for now I'll just keep shooting it and it will eventually play out whether I keep it or not.
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Old November 24, 2017, 10:21 AM   #35
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Gauging grip or feel can only happen after one fires the gun. Prior to it just speculation.


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Old November 24, 2017, 10:40 AM   #36
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So you are suggesting that by just picking one up a person cannot tell if something feels good in their hand? Really has nothing to do with whether it will shoot well. Fell and performance are two different perspectives.

example. I have two very different casting rods I use. One of them cost me a lot of money the other was only about $50.00 Both feel real good when held but when used the cheap one actually is much more sensitive and transmits a better "Feel", feedback.
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Old November 24, 2017, 11:12 AM   #37
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Yes, I use the term, it should feel good in your hands...meaning the grip angle suits you, the size of the grip, weight, balance, controls, etc ...all suit you.

No, it is not the end all in making a decision on a gun...but its a start.

Can you shoot a gun that feels clumsy in your hands...maybe / but I doubt you could shoot it in rapid fire with 95% or more A zone hits ( say, something with even moderate speed like Draw and Fire 5 rounds in under 3.7 Sec --- which is about a class B shooter ).

( For me, a full sized 1911, 5" barrel ...meets all those criteria .../ and if its properly made and tuned it will have a great trigger as well ).
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Old November 24, 2017, 11:24 AM   #38
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One thing I have not seen anyone mention which I see happening all the time at the range are all those people that take a shot and then have to re-grip their pistol to get it back into position before they can make a second shot..

I used to have to do that at times with my Model 19 357mag with full Magnum loads.
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Old November 24, 2017, 11:34 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahermit View Post
I have frequently seen that statement in regard to the handling characteristics of a handgun. My questions are: If a gun "feels good" does that always result in a more accurate gun? Can a gun that "does not feel good in the hand", like being barrel heavy actually be more conducive to accuracy than a gun that "feels good."
I consider "feeling good in your hand" different than "feeling good with the gun held out at arms length". "Feeling good in your hand"to me means the grips fit your hands well and the frame size/ergonomics of the gun are conducive to proper shooting, i.e. trigger reach, easy access to safety/hammer. IME, a firearm, regardless of platform that is more pleasant to shoot, is one that is going to get shot more. So while it may not be the most accurate gun you may have, it probably will be the one you are most proficient with overall. Anyone who does not believe how a gun "fits" you dose not equate to accuracy, hasn't shot much shotgun. While shooting slow, taking your time and concentrating, one can be accurate with most any firearm, shooting quickly by point, instinctively and with quick follow up shots, means a gun needs to point well for you....thus fitting you. While I know many folk change their grips because of aesthetics, many change them because of how they feel in their hand. It may be subjective, but being confident and comfortable with what you are shooting can and does contribute to accuracy.
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Old November 24, 2017, 03:06 PM   #40
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A valid concept IMHO-like good tasting food or beverages, or comfortable footwear. People have praised the Remington 51 because J.D. Pedersen spent a lot of time on the grip.
Shotgunners pay a lot of attention to fit, and comfortable grips are important to revolver shooters.
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Old November 24, 2017, 04:18 PM   #41
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Fit/feel is just as an important piece of the puzzle as sights, trigger, barrel and ammo. IMHO
Yes! Can I state the obvious here? Find a pistol that you shoot well AND feels good to hold, and carry, and look at, etc. There is enough good equipment out there that I think it is possible to find something that at least has both good "feel" AND shoots well.
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Old November 24, 2017, 04:29 PM   #42
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Shotgunners pay a lot of attention to fit, and comfortable grips are important to revolver shooters.
I'm going slightly off-topic here, but I am absolutely amazed at the number of people who buy shotguns that do NOT fit them. I had one guy who was an excellent shotgunner admit to me that his shotgun did not fit him properly but that he learned to compensate for it. Wow.

But I find when a pistol fits me well, the hole goes where where I "thought" it would go without any compensation going on. I cannot shoot Glocks well at all unless I slow down and concentrate on sight alignment; contrast that to my Walther PPQ and HK 45C which pokes the hole right where I thought it would go (most of the time).
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Old November 24, 2017, 04:41 PM   #43
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Revolver expert Bill Jordan in his book No Second Place Winner
points to the answer or at least one of the answers and a number
of posters have mentioned it though not necessarily in Jordan's
own specifics.

His stocks were enormous for most of us but that's what
Jordan the giant-handed man needed to achieve pointability
and comfort with a Smith Model 19.

And gun writer Mas Ayoob IIRC has mentioned that when it comes
to the 1911, the Commander handles better than the Government,
not that he's a slouch with either.
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Old November 24, 2017, 07:59 PM   #44
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KMW1954...

I sometimes see people at the range regrip their revolvers after every shot too --- but to me, it just tells me the grips don't fit the shooter very well ( or I suppose they might just be relaxing their hand and doing some "Bulls Eye Shooting").

But since I focus on shooting "Tactically" as in "for concealed carry" practic ( mostly with my 1911's / but with some of my K, L or N frame revolvers as well )...in a drill requiring you to draw & rapidly fire the revolver in double action --- regripping the gun in the middle of a string of fire, means instant failure in terms of meeting a par time speed and probably accuracy in my opinion. If I want to practice with my K, L or N frames...I will always shoot them with 158gr full power loads in .357 Mag ...( my reload times really suck
- in terms of speed...) ...but I enjoy shooting them and I will occasionally carry a model 19 or 66 in a 2 1/2" or 4" or even a 627 ( 8 shot, in a 2 5/8" ).. I'm more comfortable with the N frame as a carry gun..because the N frames fit my hands better..( and I don't let go of the gun in between shots ).
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Old November 24, 2017, 09:08 PM   #45
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I have enormous gorilla hands. Some handguns are very hard for me to grip well, and those are the ones I will definitely have trouble shooting well. If it at least fits my hand decently, then there is a chance that I will shoot it okay.
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Old November 25, 2017, 10:24 AM   #46
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I think that “feeling good in the hand” is crucial to shooting well. A gun that points more naturally will shoot more consistently, especially when at an increased rate of fire... all other variables being equal, which they almost never are.
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Old November 25, 2017, 11:03 AM   #47
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I think that “feeling good in the hand” is crucial to shooting well. A gun that points more naturally will shoot more consistently, especially when at an increased rate of fire...
Hmmmm. I wonder then why Olympic Rapid-Fire free-style pistols have barrel weights that make them very muzzle heavy, and certainly do not "feel good in the hand".
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Old November 25, 2017, 11:04 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by tallball View Post
I have enormous gorilla hands. Some handguns are very hard for me to grip well, and those are the ones I will definitely have trouble shooting well. If it at least fits my hand decently, then there is a chance that I will shoot it okay.


I wear XXL gloves and believe big hands make getting a grip challenging at times, on my LCP I can only get 1-1/2 finger grip without a mag base extension and then I still place the pinky underneath.

My G23 is the smallest “full-size” grip I like, it’s a gen2 so no grooves but It required mag base plate changeout to fill the cutout.

Yet on a gun with a full grip nothing will be “too” big and with more meat there’s more recoil damping.

current production guns will fit all the normal handed guys good enough and a lot of the grip whining is just a smokescreen for brand bias.


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Old November 25, 2017, 12:31 PM   #49
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Hmmmm. I wonder then why Olympic Rapid-Fire free-style pistols have barrel weights that make them very muzzle heavy, and certainly do not "feel good in the hand".
I will refer to the first line in my first post in this thread in an attempt to answer that "Hmmmmm".

Quote:
I consider "feeling good in your hand" different than "feeling good with the gun held out at arms length". "Feeling good in your hand"to me means the grips fit your hands well and the frame size/ergonomics of the gun are conducive to proper shooting, i.e. trigger reach, easy access to safety/hammer.
For many folks that do not shoot freehand often, a full lug revolver or a target gun with barrel weights feels very "muzzle heavy", often because they have not developed proper wrist/arm strength. Even tho the gun may feel awkward at arms length, the gun can still fit their hands very well and be very easy for them to function the action. If you watch folks in a gun shop looking at handguns, they very seldom point the gun at arms length much, if at all, while fondling the gun with it gripped in their strong hand for most of the duration they inspect it. I'd bet for those folks that are actively involved with Olympic Rapid-Fire Free-Style pistol shooting, the guns do not feel "very muzzle heavy" but quite normal.
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Old November 25, 2017, 07:59 PM   #50
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I think that if the gun doesn't fit your hand properly, then when fired it would move the shape of your hand when fired. Square peg, round hole thought.
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