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November 19, 2017, 09:56 PM | #1 |
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Weatherby magnum cartridge headspacing ... ?
All Weatherby magnum cartridges have belted cases. Are they headspaced on the belt or the case shoulder?
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November 19, 2017, 10:18 PM | #2 |
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Technically, belted cartridges headspace on the belt. Savvy reloaders headspace them on the shoulder.
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November 19, 2017, 10:20 PM | #3 |
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As an engineer, the second most unforgivable sin is no-value-added complexity.
I say this because the most unforgivable sin is value-subtracted complexity. I've read on many a long distance forums that belted cases compromise accuracy. True? |
November 19, 2017, 10:24 PM | #4 |
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Not so. There are several long-range records that were set using rifles chambered for belted magnum cartridges. Mostly has to do with case stretch and load consistency.
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November 19, 2017, 10:49 PM | #5 |
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Ask yourself..
Do you really want to go up against someone at long range that has their chit in order, knowing that they are shooting a belted magnum? Have seen many hunting rifles do 5-6 inch group at 1000 yards. Emphases on hunting rifle. |
November 19, 2017, 11:06 PM | #6 |
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At best it's a no-value-added proposition. We added complexity and get nothing in return.
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November 20, 2017, 07:53 AM | #7 |
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I use "feel" to adjust headspace of reloaded WBY ammo. This results in spacing off some point at the front end of the case--exactly where is a minor question.
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November 20, 2017, 09:16 AM | #8 |
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As a non engineer, what are you talking about?
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November 20, 2017, 10:50 AM | #9 | |
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Quote:
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November 20, 2017, 12:38 PM | #10 |
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Belted cases headspace on the belt. Headspace is a rifle manufacturing tolerance that cannot be changed by fiddling with the cartridge. Cartridges do not have headspace.
"...True?..." No. The case being belted or not has nothing to do with accuracy. The engineer should be digging his holes and not be worrying about how big his glass is. If it weren't for technicians, the engineer wouldn't have a glass. snicker.
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November 20, 2017, 01:53 PM | #11 |
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I have read many times that even Weatherby does not headspace on the belt, rather the case shoulder.
So again, as an engineer, why add something (the belt) that adds no value (has no purpose)? |
November 20, 2017, 02:55 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
As a bit of trivia, Charles Newton developed a magnum cartridge back in the late 1920s that had pretty much the same dimensions as the H&H case minus the belt. His company was a victim of the Great Depression (the first one, not the latest one).
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November 20, 2017, 05:15 PM | #13 |
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I feel a double radius shoulder is a far greater sin than the belt. That is a weatherby sin of the first order. The belt can be forgiven.
BTW, If I design a bridge that can take 200% overload you might argue that is 150% more complexity than needed. Redundant cables or posts. Belt and suspenders. What if the belt brakes. Cliches do not alwasy apply. The belt did make sense at one time. Although the belt has been a sore spot for many decades if not my entire adult life. But not necessarily for cliche reasons. Inertia is part of the issue too. There is no way I am going to give up my 375H&H for a Ruger 375. I just dont give an ants fanny. Last edited by fourbore; November 20, 2017 at 05:24 PM. |
November 21, 2017, 12:01 PM | #14 |
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I prefer Belted cases for hunting rifles. I have a very good reason. I learned to reload on belted magnums and probably reloaded 20 years before I ever loaded a non belted rifle case. My "good" reason is nostalgia. Belted cases can be every bit as accurate as their non belted equals. Reloading precision belted cases is time consuming. Most readers don't have a clue how to properly do it. A full length die does not do it right. A neck die does not do it right. A belt body die is essential. Running a properly adjusted full length die after the body die is also essential.
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November 21, 2017, 12:38 PM | #15 |
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I’m with Scorch. If the cartridge headspaces off the belt, when you reload it adjust to headspace off the shoulder. Less case stretch and longer case life. No reduction in performance and possibly an increase in accuracy.
Used to be if you brought out a magnum cartridge, you had to have a belt because all magnums had to be “belted magnums” to be considered magnums. That’s not true these days. |
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