6.5-284 distress

[thescrawler]

So I have a custom built 6.5-284 built on a mauser 98 action. I have an issue with my barrel. This barrel has a 1:12 twist. I have tried running 120 and 125 grain bullets through this with several different loads each and so far I think I have shrunk my group to roughly 3-4 INCHES!!! at 100 yards...... drool.... So I guess first I will explain that I did not have this rifle built but I was the first to put a round through it. A friend of mine had it built by a guy he knows. Needless to say I am not overly impressed with his work thus far. I am wondering if anyone has run lighter bullets (87-100 gr) through one of these and if so how they performed. I am not looking for a benchrest gun but I demand accuracy from my rifles and this is the only thing short of rebarreling it that I can think of. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[musher]

This site http://www.stevespages.com/page8e.htm has some interesting info on twist rates.

You might be able to make an educated guess as to the best weights to use from that.

Diameter Length Optimal Twist
.264 0.510 to 0.536 1 in 20
0.537 to 0.565 1 in 19
0.566 to 0.597 1 in 18
0.598 to 0.633 1 in 17
0.634 to 0.674 1 in 16
0.675 to 0.720 1 in 15
0.721 to 0.774 1 in 14
0.775 to 0.836 1 in 13
0.837 to 0.909 1 in 12
0.910 to 0.995 1 in 11
0.996 to 1.100 1 in 10
1.101 to 1.229 1 in 9
1.230 to 1.393 1 in 8
1.394 to 1.608 1 in 7
1.609 to 1.900 1 in 6

[Tim R]

Could be as simple as you have not found what the rifle likes yet. Every thing tight? Scope?

[thescrawler]

Everything is tight and set. It has a burris fullfield II 3-9x40 on it that has proven itself already. I think without a doubt I havnt found what it likes yet but I am certain that it has to do with the twist. most of your 6.5 calibers that shoot the heavier bullets are 1:9-1:10 some even are 1:8. Taking and putting a 1:12 was a poor decision. So I am going to try a light bullet and hope for the best. If not then I am going to build a real rifle out of it and rebarrel it to a 240 weatherby

[oneoldsap]

Too bad your friend didn't share the twist rate with you before you bought it ! Did you forget to ask ? Will light bullets serve your purposes ?

[Scorch]

You will need a much tighter twist barrel.

[Nevmavrick]

Check the bedding first. There are several theories, as to which is better...Well, pick one and apply it.
Make sure that the bedding is smooth, and square. Also that it touches where it needs to.
The 6.5/284 is a fine cartridge, and the .240 isn't bad, by any means. If THAT'S what you really want, jump on it, but the 6.5 does more.
FWIW, the Roy is a bit expensive, and the brass is dificult to find, at times. You might think of chambering to a version of the 6mm/06. It's gonna be a custom operation, anyway.
Have fun,
Gene

[William T. Watts]

If your present barrel is to slow a twist for the weight bullet you wish to use you may be locked into the .284 case because the side rails may have been stoned for proper feeding. If the rails have been stoned a 6mm/06 conversion may not feed properly, another thing often times one side of the magazine will feed O'K and the other will not (when an action has been altered). There arn't to many gunsmiths out there I would trust to make the conversion in a mauser action. You might quiry the previous owner and get additional information before you do anything. If the previous owner went with a standard conversion (using the basic 30/06 case) with a standard twist barrel you probably wouldn't have the rifle he would. William

[thescrawler]

Well the problem is he doesnt know anything about the rifle. I wasnt there but I know how the conversation went. He can shoot very well and is a hutning fool but knows little about the mechanics of the arms he is using. Basically he said "I want a 6.5-284 to shoot deer and antelope long range with" from there the gunsmith did whatever he did to make what he thought would satisfy him. As far as the rails go he did a very poor job on them as well. I will have to work them down a bit more if I stay with the current cartridge so they will stop catching the shoulder when feeding. The bedding on the Barrel is very well done but the bedding on the action is pitiful. There are alot of things that need done to this rifle. It really is a sad build IMO. If I can get it to group decent with a lighter bullet then I will move on and take care of the the res tof its small annoying issues.

As far as the 6.5-284 goes as a hunting cartidge, I am not impressed. Other than lower BC I dont see a real gain over the standard hunting rifles (30-06, 270, etc). For punching paper I think it is a fine round. The Lower BC's with your target bullets like berger and such are fantastic. This is my opinion is all with the research I have done on it. And i am a bit of a velocity freak anyway. I like the 6mm, it has always done me right. Thanks for the input, i do appreciate it.

Lighter bullets are not really what I wanted to run through it since they are all varmint bullets. But what the hell another Coyote rifle isnt a bad thing I guess.... If I stick to neck shots deer and antelope would be an option as well but we dont always have that choice do we....

Keep in mind also, i was the first person to punch a round through this thing. The previous ower never pulled the trigger. he had no idea what the twist was until I told him.

Nevmavrick

"but the 6.5 does more" Please explain because from what I have read and seen I dont see it.

[old roper]

thescrawler, Nolser makes a 6.5cal 100gr Partition /100gr Solid Base BT and Barnes makes a 6.5cal 100gr TTSX,Hornady makes a 100gr SP bullet and good selection of varmint bullets. Berger rec a 1/10 twist for his 6.5cal 100gr bullets.

My 6.5x284 Norma was build for the 140/142gr VLD bullets and OAL was 3.310"
and I had good bullets if I wanted to hunt antelope/deer again Berger made 130/140gr bullets for hunting. If you just neck down 284 case your limited if the OAL is 2.800" for the 6.5x284.

You may not like the 6.5x284 for what ever reason but that's more the fault of who had it build and you buying the unknown.

[thescrawler]

My dislike for the 6.5-284 has nothing to do with the particular rifle I own. It has to do with researching trajectories and velocities and everything else I can get information on. And it is not really that I dislike it, it is that I am not impressed with it. I just dont see where it gains anything over the other cartridges in its class. In the research I have done I have seen nothing that has impressed me. In fact if you break it all down and group each cartridge in their respective classes, wildcat and factory alike, there is little reason to stray from the main stream (other than pure entertainment value and to say I have this and you dont). You gain very little beyond its brethren save one or two exceptional ones in each. We can all have our own opinions on all this and often do. We dont need to beat eachother up because we disagree on which one is best. There is really no point in it.

Really I started this thread not to be attacked because I dont agree with the hype, but to ask if anyone has run the lighter 6.5 caliber bullets and if so how did they perform.

[William T. Watts]

The 284 round has the same case capacity as a 30/06 case, the advantage is 30/06 performance from a shorter stiffer action with less flexing and very good accuracy potential. For what ever reason the rebated case never caught on and when encountered it usually is in the form of a wildcat either a 30/284 or 6.5/284. Both are fine rounds but there isn't to much demand for a rifle in a wildcat configuration when standard calibers with factory ammunition available everywhere. The only wildcat I have I built a 338/06 while a student at Trinidad State Jr College while enrolled in their Gunsmith program. Quite frankly I do not like it, I rarely shoot the darn thing, I wished I had built a rifle that I could walk in any store and buy ammunition for it. The only option for you that makes any sense is try the 100 grain bullet and see if your 1 in 12 twist will stabilize them, be very careful about feeding a steady diet of ammunition loaded with maximum charges. The Mauser action is a good one but may well be 90-100 years old! William

[thescrawler]

as far as max charges, I really have no desire to push it as hard as i can. I have one rifle that I push hard and that is my 204.... just because it likes it faster and hotter and groups better... not to mention it is fun

[old roper]

I guess I didn't word thing right. Most that would build a 6.5x284 would look at the SAAMI spec 6.5x284 Norma vs the wildcat 6.5x284 and they would build something as a LR rifle.

About 1/2 the custom barrel makers do not make 1/12 twist barrels like Kreiger/Bartlein that I would order barrel 6.5 barrel from. I've own custom 6.5x284 and 264 mag so I have no experience with the light bullets but I sure wouldn't build something with a 1/12 twist barrel doesn't matter what case it would be.

My 6.5x284 Norma was LR varmint/antelope rifle also had tight neck .290 that rifle would group in the .2's. I've also had two 6x284 and two 284 build the last 30yrs my present 284 build on a long action.

I fully understand dislike and not being impressed with some cases I'm lucky as I don't have them build.

I'm not sure how far you got on your research but Hornady and Sierra has loading data for the 6.5x284 and I'm sure if you called Sierra they help on that 1/12 twist barrel reloading data.

[Nevmavrick]

IMHO-the 6.5 will deliver more than a 6mm because of the ability to use a 140gr bullet.
I know there is a too-slow twist barrel on your barrel, and I hope you got a good deal on the rifle going in, as you apperantly knew the probability starting out. The wood or some other factor on the gun made your decision. But...you still want to make the best of it before you make an expensive change. I'd do the same thing.
I've found some of the slow-twist guns will shoot with heavy bullets. Some of the target, long for calibers absolutely require quicker-twist barrels, but the long hunting bullets MAY not. Sometimes I can get them to work by running the velocity as high as I can safely.
You remember the old controversy about the .244 Remington. Many reports came out how accurate some of the guns were, but they were loaded to max. Max is high...not unsafe.
Of course, it would depend on what you call "long range," but IMO 400yds is plenty for game shooting. I prefer to keep it closer, eventho' I've done enough rifle competition to feel confident farther out. My usual game is rifle silhouette.
If your rifle won't respond then you've lost little, and if nothing else, you've got some trigger-time.
I would recomend the Hornady 140 as it's a flat-base bullet, then the Sierra which is a longer boattail.
I don't remember seeing what the barrel-length is, but even at 24", you should fill the case with anthrocite coal,lol, and see how much velocity you can get, and what level of accuracy results.
Have fun,
Gene