Buying an AR15 but need advice

[MurBob]

And it looks like I should really choose the .223 Wylde chamber?

[SDF880]

I have SS and regular barrels and to be honest as far as shooting goes I notice no difference! I do like the idea of SS better but seems to make no difference!
Buy a good cleaning kit! I like the Otis cable method and use CLP or Ballistol
. My Aero Precision purchases have been barrels, lowers, kits, gas tubes, charging handles, bolt carrier groups, rails, fore ends, etc. I have not purchased a complete rifle from them but based on my experience I would buy one! I like that rifle someone posted from Brownells for the Aero AR, looked good too me!

Maybe slow down deep breath and see what some of the other posts offer. There are so many good choices out there as someone said just buy a name
carbine you recognize and you'll be fine!

[SDF880]

I have .233 Wylde and happy with it! You can shoot .223 or 5.56 thru the wylde.
I built an 18 inch SS wylde last year it it is very accurate!!

[Theohazard]

Stainless barrels tend to be a little more accurate than nitrided or chrome-lined barrels, but they're less durable and more prone to corrosion.

[MurBob]

Stainless barrels tend to be a little more accurate than nitrided or chrome-lined barrels, but they're less durable and more prone to corrosion.

Really? is the corrosion issue because of the 400 series alloy stainless?

Kind of counter intuitive there as I would have thought the ss barrel would have less corrosion..

[f2shooter]

I recently got one from Bear Creek Arsenal. I'd never heard of them but close inspection showed it to be well made and so far it has been super. Accurate and completely reliable. I bought it 'used' from a gentleman but it had not been fired until I took it out. It's about a $700 rifle.

Rick H.

[Capt. Charlie]

I'm merging this with its twin in lever actions, etc. Sorry if any of these are duplicates, as posts were coming too fast for me to keep up with, or I may just need a refresher in that speed typing course.

I'm relatively new to the world of AR's as well, and the results of my initial search were overwhelming. Other than those made by big-name manufacturers, I found the list to be almost endless, and a lot of those are high quality.

More out of frustration than anything else, I reached out to one of our SRT guys (who doubles as my go-to FFL guy), and told him to build himself the ideal AR, suitable for everything from plinking to serious business, and then sell it to me .

The result was a build by Windham Weaponry, with various contributions by Magpul, and I couldn't be happier.

Windham is owned and staffed by the original founders of Bushmaster, after that brand name was sold to a mass-production outfit, and those worthy founders wanted to get back to a smaller, high-quality company. I think one of the things that stood out in my mind was their lifetime, transferable warranty.

My rifle was a bit pricey at almost two grand (but keep in mind that I gave the dealer what amounted to a blank check and told him to include hot and cold running water with that kitchen sink and the mounted Swiss Army Knife should be the super deluxe model ).

All the goodies aside, I found the basic Windham selection to be both reliable and accurate, and I'm not known for babying my guns.

Whatever you decide to go with, I think you'll really like the AR platform. I'm just sorry I didn't do it years ago.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by Murbob

Really? is the corrosion issue because of the 400 series alloy stainless?

Kind of counter intuitive there as I would have thought the ss barrel would have less corrosion..

The metal on stainless barrels is more corrosion-resistant than the metal in nitrided or chrome-lined barrels, but it's the nitride and chrome lining that provides the extra level of corrosion resistance. A metal treated with nitride or coated with chrome is more corrosion-resistant than bare stainless steel.

[marine6680]

A stainless barrel is not inherently more accurate because it is stainless...

It's all about how well the barrel is made... A cheap low quality stainless barrel is not going to be very accurate, while a quality made chrome lined barrel can be very accurate.

I have a chrome lined barrel, a cold hammer forged version from BCM that can shoot 1moa with quality ammo... So a quality barrel is a quality barrel, no matter the type.

Stainless is popular for accurate barrels mostly due to the properties of the steel. From my understanding, unlike normal carbon steels used in barrels, which slowly loose accuracy over time... A stainless barrel retains a fairly constant level of accuracy, until it very rapidly stops being accurate... Basically they remain consistent until the point they need replaced. Good for a competition precision shooter, less useful for the average shooter.


But if you want a rifle for hard times... I would shy away from stainless steel barrels. They do not last as long, or tolerate hard use/abuse as well.

I suggest nitrided or chrome lined for durability and corrosion residence... nitrided barrels are the most corrosion resistant, as the entire barrel is treated, inside and out... chrome lined barrels are parkarized on the outside, which is good but not as good as nitrided or the chrome lining is. But being the outside, it's easy to maintain, so it's not a real detriment.

You also do not need an chambering other than a 5.56... The barrel I mentioned above is 5.56... A good barrel will be accurate enough for most users, especially as a fighting rifle.


I suggest the Aero Precision because for a basic carbine setup... it really lacks for nothing... It's basically mil spec but for the nitrided rather than chrome lined barrel... And nitrided barrels are close to chrome lined as far as durability is concerned, and can exhibit a bit better accuracy on average as well.


When it comes to a hard use rifle... You don't need gimmicks, too many people get caught up in that... But all you really need, is for it to be built correctly, from quality parts designed to last.

You get that with the Aero at a very good price.

A set of sights and magazines to feed it with are all you need to add. I suggest a fixed metal real sight for simplicity, you can add a red dot if you want. And PMags are great magazines, well proven in actual combat use, so no worries.


There are a couple sites out there, like AR15com, and m4carbinenet, that can get a little elitist in their thinking and suggestions. Those sites tend to want to steer people to high end wizbangery, with only the chosen few manufacturers getting respect

M4 is probably the worst between them, with AR15 having a few down to earth members.

But take what is said on them with a grain of salt.

[Nathan]

Almost any AR you buy will fling cheap 5.56 ammo at 100 yd targets with 2-4" accuracy for a long time.

That said, the cheapest guns under $600 are doing something to maintain or increase profitability....some of this is Mfg location, some is part quality and some is just plain crap...I forget who, but somebody is making a low dollar barrel nut....really!

I would tend to trust big name AR makers like Aero Precision, Colt, FN, PSA, Danial Defense,etc and trust names like Remington, DPMS and S&W a bit less, but see my first sentence again.

There are also many new and small gunmakers making great product. New and small typically means USA parts, made by one of a small group of USA part makers, and a gun assembled and tested buy people who own and shoot AR's. What they lack in profit and systems, they make up for in craftsmanship.

[O4L]

I agree with getting either the Aero Precision or Palmetto State Armory (PSA) midlength rifles.

Best bang for your buck.

[MarkCO]

Aero is good.

For a durable barrel...Melonite > Chrome Lined > Chrome Moly > Stainless.

I am to the point where it if is not premium match quality, it had better be Melonite.

[rickyrick]

Melonite barrels are the prettiest finish I believe. They get the treatment inside and out.

Phosphate outer finish can look rough or uneven at first, but get better with age.

Chrome lined, I never notice any accuracy difference.

The one that I did notice seems to be an outlier is the unlined 4150 barrel that I put on my wife's carbine. It seems to be more accurate than all the others I own. No data, no scientific methodology, it just "appears" to be more accurate, so use the information or discard.

Either way, if I can afford to burn out a barrel, then I should be able to afford a new one.

If you are prepping, and going to store, I'd say melonite or stainless. If you don't like shiny steel, phosphate coated stainless barrels are available.

[rickyrick]

Ps: some people mistake a chrome moly barrel for chrome lined. You my see CMV, ChroMo, chrome and so on. That's the barrel steel. Look for "chrome lined" if that's the way you go.

[WVsig]

Well then it looks like I'm going with Aero then..

Sure wish they offered a complete rifle with a stainless barrel.. My Ruger 10/22 has a stainless barrel and the thing is dead nuts accurate with every brand of ammo I run through it. And it won't rust!

ya.. you guys are probably laughing at me.. "Idiot doesn't know jack squat about what he's talking about".. you'd mostly be right.. my only saving characteristic is that I can shoot.. really good. Perfect 400/400 in the Air Force rifle range..

So after a little reading, I was surprised to discover that stainless barrels are actually better... but has nothing to do with rust!. They are apparently more accurate?

So what would you guys recommend? I was reading articles about Aero for the last couple hours.. learn a good deal about the company. Still don't know jack squat about guns though.. had to google most of their abbreviations.. CMV... for crying out loud.. just spell it out!! LOL

Don't sweat the barrel the melonite will serve you well. AR15s have a language of their own after a while you will learn know how to decipher it. Chrome lined will last longer but it was used in the M4 build sheet because the true M4 is full auto weapon and the chrome lining will last longer under those conditions. Most civilians who own semi-auto AR15s will never shoot out a barrel of any kind. To do so you are talking about 10,000 round give or take at $.25 to $.30 a round. If you can afford to shoot that much you can afford to replace a barrel.

The Areo is a great choice. The spec on the rifle is solid. They are a solid company for complete rifles and are an OEM manufacturer for a lot of companies.

If this is the rifle you are looking at you will need a few things.

http://www.brownells.com/firearms/ri...prod82606.aspx




First you need a rear BUIS, backup iron sight. You will also need mags. I would recommend Magpul for both. Pmags gen 2 or 3 will serve you well and their MBUS sight is a popular option for the rear sight. You could step up to the Pro version as well. Another option is the Aero BUIS which is an Troy/HK style sight that comes in sets. if this is the rifle you are getting then you won't need the front sight. http://aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-flip-up-sight-set.html



This leads me to ask another question. Many people buy entry level M4 style AR15s that have an A2 front sight gas block. The big triangle that serves as your front sight post. The #1 thing that people ask about modifying their AR15 is "how do I remove the A2 front sight so I can install a free floating rail." It can be done. It is not a hard job but it does require a bit of knowledge, some tools and a few new parts.

If you are on AR15 boards or AR15 sections of boards you will see the same question asked over and over again. So I ask you do you like the A2 front sight post? Is that the way you want your AR15 to look and function or do you want something like this.



This is a S&W 15T M-lok rifle but you it has free floating rail and the it uses BUIS on both the front and the rear. This one is wearing a Magplul MBUS set. There is some accuracy to be gained by using a FF rail but that is not why I am asking the question. Most people swap it out for looks and for the rail sections that are on the handguard. The most popular configurations these days are Keymod or M-Lok. These are more in favor and the older quad rail is less desirable these days.

Quad rails are often heavy and are referred to as cheese graters because they can be sharp and abrasive to you hands. The Keymod and M-Lok systems have a slimmer lighter profile and allow you to mount rail sections only where you need them. Rail sections are needed for, lights moveable sling mounts, foregrips etc... Basically all the do dads you see hanging off peoples rifles.

If you want to stick with the Aero brand look at one of their OEM style rifles. It comes complete except for the handguard and the stock. Most local shops can install a handguard for you or you can do it yourself but it requires some tools. The stock is simple and needs no special tools. This route allows you to get the exact handguard you want. I highly recommend this route if you want a free floating rail.

http://www.brownells.com/firearms/ri...RO%2bPRECISION



So ask your self which one you like the look of better and do you want rail sections for accessories or do you like the simplicity of the A2 front post. Making the right choice in the beginning can save you time and money down the road.

As for sights I recommend a Aimpoint Pro. It is a big red dot but it is battle tested it is a turn it on leave it on sight that if you set it at level 7 will give you 30,000 continues hours. It is waterproof, night vision compatible & comes with its own mount which can be setup as absolute co-witness or 1/3 co-witness. The only thing it isn't is light. The run about $435 all the time but you can get them on sale for under $400 sometimes and can also often find them LNIB used for around $350. This is a good battle tested scope that can easily hit targets at 100 yards and is made to be minute of man out to 300 yards.



For a total budget of $1200 the 3 rifles I would recommend are the following:

-S&W Sport II for $499 shipped to your FFL, Aimpoint Pro $435, 10 Magpul Mags $90, $175 worth of 55gr brass cased ammo like Wolf Gold.

-Areo AR15 M4 style mid-length $559, Aimpoint Pro $435, 10 Magpul Mags $90, $125 worth of 55gr brass cased ammo like Wolf Gold.

-Areo AR15 FF OEM mid-length $529, Aimpoint Pro $435, 10 Magpul Mags $90, $149 for a 12" Aero rail section $149 ammo will come out of other funds.

[MurBob]

For a total budget of $1200 the 3 rifles I would recommend are the following:

-S&W Sport II for $499 shipped to your FFL, Aimpoint Pro $435, 10 Magpul Mags $90, $175 worth of 55gr brass cased ammo like Wolf Gold.

-Areo AR15 M4 style mid-length $559, Aimpoint Pro $435, 10 Magpul Mags $90, $125 worth of 55gr brass cased ammo like Wolf Gold.

-Areo AR15 FF OEM mid-length $529, Aimpoint Pro $435, 10 Magpul Mags $90, $149 for a 12" Aero rail section $149 ammo will come out of other funds.

Dude.. that's awesome! Thank you so much..

Its going to be a "Girl gun" so I want to keep it light.. I'll probably just add a red dot sight like you suggest and call it a day..

[marine6680]

I like red dot sights and suggest them as good additions, but as a prepper sight they are not really viable long term.

I know it's not likely to happen, but if you are serious about the prepping aspect of the gun, then any electric sight should be considered dead or quickly useless once it hits the fan.

So that is why I recommend a fixed metal rear sight. Troy offers some nice ones, that cost about what a rear MBUS does. That way, if it is needed as a primary sight, it's better quality. MBUS work well as a backup, but are lacking as a primary sight option. A quality folding rear just adds complexity and cost that isn't needed if it's used as a primary.

Free floating the barrel is not necessary, you can do just fine with the plastic hand guards... I recommend swapping them for some magpul versions, for comfort and versatility. Same for the grip and stock... modern adjustable stock carbines are well served by the K grip or SL grip from magpul, less rearward angle to the grip, and it's more comfortable.


For a good general purpose carbine, I say keep it simple.


The OEM rifle from Aero is a good option, lets you get the stock, grip and hand guard you want.

A free float handguard costs more, and you need tools to install it... unless you get one designed to attach to the stock barrel nut. Most require a special barrel nut, but something like the Samson Evo do not, so basic tools are needed and no real skill or knowledge is required.

I have seen the 12" Evo rails go for not much over $100 on sale.

I also recommend checking the set screws on the low profile gas block if you go that route... And apply high temp red loctite to them if needed. Just take them out one at a time and there is not danger of the block shifting.

For other options for the stocks and grips...

The MOE or SL stock, is a good option that isn't much in the way of cost. For a person with smaller hands, the SL grip is great, I have medium hands and find I like it a lot. The mod 3 grip from BCM is also nice, a little larger/hand filling... If you go with the standard carbine, the MOE or SL hand guards are nice, I give the SL version the edge.

[MurBob]

I don't think I would ever own a gun without iron sights for back up..

Can the aimpoint pro fit on the same rail as a flip up rear site?

[marine6680]

Yeah, just shift the red dot closer to the front of the receiver rail... My preferred location is as far forward on the receiver rail as it will fit. Less obtrusive that way.


I edited my prior post above, added some info.


Here is a pic of various setups for an AR...

The one in the lower right, is the one sitting ready to go right now... It's setup simply, no need for a lot of fancy, or a free float rail. For a general purpose carbine, it's my recommendation...

If you want a free float, I would keep it simple for that as well, the middle left is an example.





I think the Aero is the best under $600 rifle you can get right now, followed by the PSA Freedom...

While you may never shoot out a barrel, it's not just extra durability that you gain with chrome lined or nitrided barrels.

[WVsig]

Originally Posted by marine6680

I like red dot sights and suggest them as good additions, but as a prepper sight they are not really viable long term.

I know it's not likely to happen, but if you are serious about the prepping aspect of the gun, then any electric sight should be considered dead or quickly useless once it hits the fan.

So that is why I recommend a fixed metal rear sight. Troy offers some nice ones, that cost about what a rear MBUS does. That way, if it is needed as a primary sight, it's better quality. MBUS work well as a backup, but are lacking as a primary sight option. A quality folding rear just adds complexity and cost that isn't needed if it's used as a primary.

I think that having both is the right way to go. Aimpoint Pro can give you 3.5 years of life from a set of batteries and that is if you leave it on the entire time. So if you prep properly you can have batteries that will keep the optic operational for a long time.

I personally will not buy anything Troy related but that it a personal choice. I like the Aero BUIS which I have on a few of my rifles. They are Troy like but I am not putting money into a company that hires murders.

Originally Posted by marine6680

Free floating the barrel is not necessary, you can do just fine with the plastic hand guards... I recommend swapping them for some magpul versions, for comfort and versatility. Same for the grip and stock... modern adjustable stock carbines are well served by the K grip or SL grip from magpul, less rearward angle to the grip, and it's more comfortable.


For a good general purpose carbine, I say keep it simple.

The Magpul plastic handguards are Ok but they have been known to melt after extended shooting which in long term scenario is not good. For a few bucks more you can get a decent rail which will last longer in my experience.

Originally Posted by marine6680

The OEM rifle from Aero is a good option, lets you get the stock, grip and hand guard you want.

A free float handguard costs more, and you need tools to install it... unless you get one designed to attach to the stock barrel nut. Most require a special barrel nut, but something like the Samson Evo do not, so basic tools are needed and no real skill or knowledge is required.

I have seen the 12" Evo rails go for not much over $100 on sale.

This is why I recommend a Aero rail for the Aero OEM rifle. It should not require special tools to install. You can get an Aero Quantum series Keymond or M-lok for about $85.

http://aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-qua...andguards.html

Originally Posted by marine6680

I also recommend checking the set screws on the low profile gas block if you go that route... And apply high temp red loctite to them if needed. Just take them out one at a time and there is not danger of the block shifting.

For other options for the stocks and grips...

The MOE or SL stock, is a good option that isn't much in the way of cost. For a person with smaller hands, the SL grip is great, I have medium hands and find I like it a lot. The mod 3 grip from BCM is also nice, a little larger/hand filling... If you go with the standard carbine, the MOE or SL hand guards are nice, I give the SL version the edge.

I don't recommend the MOE unless $$$ are really tight. They are rattle traps. Grips are such a personal thing it is hard to recommend one over another. Each shooter just has to hold as many as they can and shoot as many as the can and then choose accordingly. Luckily they are cheap.

[WVsig]

Originally Posted by MurBob

Dude.. that's awesome! Thank you so much..

Its going to be a "Girl gun" so I want to keep it light.. I'll probably just add a red dot sight like you suggest and call it a day..

If you are not going to hang a ton of stuff off the rifle I would get the M4 A2 style Aero with the standard handguards and call it a day.

Right now if you use couon M5J you can get the AC-15 5.56X45MM NATO with the $25 gift card for $544.99 shipped to your FFL. That is the best deal for a quality rifle on the market right now IMHO.

http://www.brownells.com/firearms/ri...prod82606.aspx

I would get this Aero rear sight for $68 shipped.

http://www.graniteridgeoutfitters.co...?categoryId=-1

Get some mags and shoot the gun. From there buy an optic once the wife gets proficient with the iron sights.

[ShootistPRS]

I won't give you any names but if you want interchangeability you should stay with MilSpec guns. Some guns use different (harder to find/more expensive) magazines. Right now you may hear a lot about the Wylde chamber but stay with the 556 chamber. The Wylde chamber is bigger than the 556 chamber and is intended for 223 guns so they can fire both the 223 and the 556 rounds without concern for the amount of free bore. If you use the smaller 556 chamber you can use both the 223 and 556 and work your brass less in the firing/sizing process. If the parts in your gun are milspec then you can easily find parts whereas having proprietary parts means you have to go to that manufacturer to get replacement parts.

Stay away from any sight that needs batteries or stock extra batteries with the gun. They always seem to die during or right before you need them.

[WVsig]

Stay away from any sight that needs batteries or stock extra batteries with the gun. They always seem to die during or right before you need them.

I find this is true with crappy red dots or lower end. With Aimpoints like the Pro you simply put the battery in set an alarm on your phone for 3 years from now and replace as needed. The busy recticle and the short battery life was one of my biggest issues with the Eotech optic I had in the past.

Yes you will need to stock batteries for the optic long term but if you are prepping in a bunker then having extra batteries should not be an issue IMHO.

When you start to move into combat/duty ready optics which do not require a battery you are moving into high price range unless you go with a reflex sight which is not a bad option. Trijicon Reflex might fit the bill but I think the red dot for me still wins the day. My T2 has a 5 year battery life.

Optics like Trijicon ACOGs, Elcan SpecterDR, Burris XTR II™ Riflescope 1-5x24mm, Leupold Mark 6 Riflescopes etc... Those are going to run in $1000-$2,500 depending on configuration.

And honestly none will be as fast as a red dot in CQB, 50 meters or less, which is what most people would find themselves in. IMHO

[Skarekrow88]

Bought an FN-15 Rifle for $1000 and some change as my first AR and I regret nothing. Most accurate weapon I own. Also assembled a PSA Dissipator build and it has been great too. Cant say much about any others because FN and Palmetto State Armory are the only ones I have any experience with. A quality AR can be can be pieced together from PSA for a very reasonable price.

[WVsig]

Bought an FN-15 Rifle for $1000 and some change as my first AR and I regret nothing. Most accurate weapon I own. Also assembled a PSA Dissipator build and it has been great too. Cant say much about any others because FN and Palmetto State Armory are the only ones I have any experience with. A quality AR can be can be pieced together from PSA for a very reasonable price.

The FN is a decent gun but I think that they are a little overpriced in today's competitive market but I would not mind adding one to the safe at the right price.

PSA builds a decent rifle but their QC, customer service and support leaves a lot to be desired. I have bought both Blem stuff and NIB stuff from them and both had what I would consider to be Blems on them. Stuff that would not have made it past someone like FN.

These days I like them for parts like BCGs and lower parts kits. Sometimes complete uppers but I would only recommend them to someone who knows their way around the AR15 so that if something is out of spec they can fix it without having to deal with PSAs CS. Avg time spent on hold to get some one on the phone is about 45 minutes in my experience. Email replies take days.