Ruger customer service: Don't carry a loaded LCP II

[Blue1]

I have an XDs and would carry it (or any handgun) in a pocket only with a pocket holster.

The pistol has been through the recall. It also has a grip safety, which makes it, in my mind, much safer than only a trigger blade "safety" (which it has as well).

Perhaps I am naive, but I carry it chambered and ready to rock and roll. I do not feel unsafe doing so.

I have always been leery of trigger blade-only guns like Glocks.

On the other hand, probably more Glocks are in use as service weapons in the U.S. than any other gun, and how often do you hear of unintended discharges?

Still, seems unnecessarily risky to me, so I don't own Glocks.

[Cheapshooter]

Quote:
The hammer on the LCP is fully concealed and it is NOT fully cocked when a round is chambered.

That is an absolutely true statement. The LCP II, the non-improvement, improved model, has the SA cocked, and unlocked hammer.

[TheDevilThatYouKnow]

In 2008, Ruger received a small number of reports from the field indicating that LCP® pistols could discharge when dropped onto a hard surface with a round in the chamber. We are firmly committed to safety and would like to retrofit all older LCP® Pistols. The retrofit involves installation of an upgraded hammer mechanism at no charge to the customer.

Any LCP® pistol with serial number prefix "371" and higher (371-xxxxx) has been manufactured with a new hammer mechanism and tested to "drop safe" standards.

Any LCP pistol with serial number prefix "370" and below was manufactured without the improved hammer and should be returned Free of Charge to Ruger to be upgraded with an additional magazine for the trouble.

Any LCP pistol with serial number prefix "370" AND a diamond mark on the flat portion behind and below the trigger has had the new hammer installed and does not need further modification.


In regards to any "drop test" the only thing I have come up with to this point (no pun intended) is the BATF's 'point' factoring system for imported pistols and revolvers that specifies revolvers have a hammer that retracts and resist firing when dropped 36 inches on the hammer (paraphrased as we all know how the gov't words things.) https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...apons/download

[elde]

All of the information directly above, although accurate and appreciated, has everything to do with the LCP firearm and nothing to do with the LCPll.

[TomNJVA]

The LCP II has a trigger blade safety and an inertia-type firing pin. The hammer does move back a bit when firing, and the pistol comes with a good quality pocket holster. I cannot image this gun discharging from a drop unless it is out of the holster and impacts a hard surface muzzle down with enough momentum to overcome the inertia-type firing pin. I'm not even sure such a small and light gun can build up enough momentum to discharge.

I carry mine in an empty pocket, inside the holster, loaded and chambered, and feel safe. My concern would not be from a drop discharge, but rather from hitting the trigger when pulling from the holster, but that applies to many handguns. I feel carrying an unchambered defense gun can be more dangerous than a chambered SA one. That said I would much prefer a DA/SA trigger for carry.

TomVA

[Powernoodle]

That is an absolutely true statement.

You are absolutely right. I misread.

[eak1999]

I have owned an LCP II for about 5 months now. The whole reason I am on this site is because during cleaning and inspection, I looked for the firing pin block and discovered that there was not one. I assumed all striker fired pistols included a firing pin block safety. Here is the exact quote from page 14 of the manual that came with the gun:

"For maximum safety when carrying the pistol with a loaded magazine in place, the chamber should be empty, and the slide should be closed."

Granted that statement is probably driven mostly from a legal standpoint. Nonetheless, if you carry a loaded round in the chamber and something happens, you may have a tough time in court given that the manufacturer has told you not to do it.

That said, I googled and found this write up on policeone.com that claims there is a "second sear engagement point" on the hammer:

"From a safety standpoint, the LCP II lacks any type of passive firing pin safety. The pistol’s hammer and sear engagement is very robust when fully cocked, negating the need for an internal firing pin block. Just to be safe, Ruger engineers did add a second sear engagement point on the hammer (similar to the half-cock position on a 1911) that will catch the hammer in case the sear receives a sufficient shock that might jar the hammer loose. In factory testing, Ruger found the primary sear engagement was so good that the sear actually had to be machined away in order to test the secondary engagement."

It's not clear to me exactly what this second sear engagement point is and whether it would provide an equivalent level of safety as a firing pin block. I'll try to study the hammer and sear more the next time I have the gun apart.

[ritepath]

But...But....I thought our safety was between our ears...or was that "my safety is my index finger" ???

[Bart Noir]

eak, welcome to The Firing Line. You made a good choice to post here.

I carry the LCP II and am looking forward to your further comments on this.

My pistol is fully loaded and ready to go. I guess I just trust my trigger control and Ruger's design engineers, in that order.

Bart Noir

[adamBomb]

I won't carry with a round in the chamber unless there is a manual safety or decocked hammer. Glock leg exists for a reason and a Glock isn't SAO. No way would I carry SAO without a very good safety like a 1911 has.

[TunnelRat]

Glock leg exists because of negligence and the sheer prevalence of the pistol. I've seen plenty of firearms handling among officers that scares me, regardless of the design.

[JohnKSa]

But...But....I thought our safety was between our ears...or was that "my safety is my index finger" ???

I'm going to respond to the comment but without weighing in on the safety of the LCP design.

That presumes a gun design that won't go off as long as a person doesn't pull the trigger. It's a different story if the gun will fire even when the trigger isn't pulled.

[lee n. field]

Originally Posted by eak1999

I have owned an LCP II for about 5 months now. The whole reason I am on this site is because during cleaning and inspection, I looked for the firing pin block and discovered that there was not one. I assumed all striker fired pistols included a firing pin block safety.

The LCP is not a striker fired gun.

"From a safety standpoint, the LCP II lacks any type of passive firing pin safety. The pistol’s hammer and sear engagement is very robust when fully cocked, negating the need for an internal firing pin block. Just to be safe, Ruger engineers did add a second sear engagement point on the hammer (similar to the half-cock position on a 1911) that will catch the hammer in case the sear receives a sufficient shock that might jar the hammer loose. In factory testing, Ruger found the primary sear engagement was so good that the sear actually had to be machined away in order to test the secondary engagement."

It's not clear to me exactly what this second sear engagement point is and whether it would provide an equivalent level of safety as a firing pin block. I'll try to study the hammer and sear more the next time I have the gun apart.

[adamBomb]

That presumes a gun design that won't go off as long as a person doesn't pull the trigger. It's a different story if the gun will fire even when the trigger isn't pulled.

Is dropping a gun really less careless than getting the trigger caught on your shirt as you holster it? I think they are in the same ballpark of things not to do. Never trust any safety...that includes drop safeties.

Having said that, I like safeties and would definitely not be carrying this...then again I won't carry anything without a manual safety. Our minds are not designed to be perfect, especially if we are tired, sick, stressed, etc when accidents are more likely. We have all had our moments when we have forgotten where we put our wallet or car keys or walked into a room and couldn't remember what we needed. Our minds are far from perfect, which is why I don't trust anyone's.

[straightshooterjake]

Originally Posted by adamBomb

Is dropping a gun really less careless than getting the trigger caught on your shirt as you holster it? I think they are in the same ballpark of things not to do. Never trust any safety...that includes drop safeties.

Keep in mind that "dropping" a gun does not necessarily mean it was separated from its owner. You could fall off a motorcycle or down a flight of stairs, or get struck with a heavy object that impacts your holstered pistol. In all of these cases, you should be confident that the gun will not fire. And what prevents a pistol from firing in these situations is internal drop safeties.

I consider proper mechanical drop safeties to be absolutely required in a carry handgun. Drop safeties provide critical protection in dynamic real world situations, they are not just protection against carelessness.

[Model12Win]

All this hand wringing about strikers, trigger dinguses, etc.

Never understood what was much too wrong with a DA/SA...

[FITASC]

.then again I won't carry anything without a manual safety.

Leaves out a lot of perfectly good guns. I am opposite, I won't carry one with manual safeties; in the heat of the moment, all I want to do is point and shoot. My Glocks, Kahrs, LCP, P7, revolvers, all have no manual safety and I carry all of them.

[TunnelRat]

All this hand wringing about strikers, trigger dinguses, etc.

I'm not wringing my hands, nor are many others. For that matter whether DA/SA or not a firing pin block is pretty standard these days.

[Bill DeShivs]

Don't you see where this is coming from?

First, Ruger copies an existing design. They make it look better, make it slightly bigger, and make it heavier. Heavy is good to most people-think "marketing."

Then they "improve the trigger pull" by making it a single action gun. Well, of course they "improved" the trigger pull over a D/A gun! Marketing again. Most non-gun people don't understand why they "need" a D/A carry pistol-they just like the single action trigger pull because it's easier to shoot. It's also easier to shoot yourself with this "improved" gun!

[Cheapshooter]

^+1
Wow, ya know those planets that aligned a couple times recently. The ones Hal mentioned when he agreed with me.
Well, they done lined up once more...I agree with something Bill just said!

[hagar]

Another LCP owner that would not trade for an LCP II. The new model is bulkier, heavier, uglier and now also less safe.

[samsmix]

Adding a slide stop to the DAO LCP would have been my preference.

[railroader]

Originally Posted by adamBomb

Is dropping a gun really less careless than getting the trigger caught on your shirt as you holster it? I think they are in the same ballpark of things not to do. Never trust any safety...that includes drop safeties.

Having said that, I like safeties and would definitely not be carrying this...then again I won't carry anything without a manual safety. Our minds are not designed to be perfect, especially if we are tired, sick, stressed, etc when accidents are more likely. We have all had our moments when we have forgotten where we put our wallet or car keys or walked into a room and couldn't remember what we needed. Our minds are far from perfect, which is why I don't trust anyone's.

I don't have the LCPII but when I carry my LCP I put it into a pocket holster then I put both together into my pocket. If I draw the gun out I take the holster out of my pocket and repeat the process. This way there is nothing to catch on the trigger like a shirt. The trigger is covered when the gun goes in my pocket. As for a safety the gun is too small for me to be fumbling with a safety after drawing it. I'm fine with it the way it is.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I have owned a LCP since they first came out. The original with the long trigger pull, then the Gen 2. In the 10 years of owing them, I developed a niche for shooting pocket guns, which I do weekly. I train with them often and believe if you can shoot one well, then you pretty much can shoot most guns fairly accurate as well.
I have owned 4 LCP's. During that time, I also had sent a number of them back for repairs or replacements. Mostly due to the build quality. Cheap aluminum chassis's etc. that would invariably result in cracked frames, split rails, broken down take down pins etc.
I was really disappointed when Ruger came out with the LCP ll. It really was IMO a gun for the Marketing crowd. A few cosmetic differences, a last round lock back and a insane trigger for a pocket gun.
They did nothing to improve on the quality of the gun. I thought for sure they were going to come out with a all stainless steel chassis, modular design, and make it a tank, like Ruger is so well known for making.
Basically they are "Throw away guns". Shoot them often, it breaks and then just replace.
When I first shot the New LCP ll, I knew I did not need any manual to see that the gun was just downright unsafe to carry. Why would Ruger take a good design with a nice trigger like the Gen 2, and put that crazy trigger on the new gun? Man they screwed that one up. On a pocket gun?
It was obvious they were going after the Newbie crowd, and using Marketing over quality.
I felt that the new trigger was weird right away, a crazy free play, then a short take up and then a quick bang. The Older Gen 2 had a nice smooth pull, deliberate all the way through. Not so with the new model.
I moved on to other Pocket guns, which actually turned out to be a good thing in my case. But it was not long after shooting the LCP ll that I saw this notice below. Man, he was right on with the safety of this gun and I shared his sediments entirely.
Each to his own, but as a Ruger fan for other guns, I turned away from LCP's. Just found better built guns and better shooting Pocket guns. I Personally would not own a LCP ll if you gave me one. Just not safe.
Here is the notice below.
http://www.unclegeorgeswalletholster...IIWARNING.aspx

[Airman Basic]

Y'all badmouth the LCP all you want. Just stay away from my DAO LCR, or it'll be on like a chickenbone. Anything wrong with it, BTW?