Help me identify this rifle please

bspillman · August 27, 2015, 06:32 AM

It's chambered in 303 British bolt action. The bolt is spring loaded and can be hard to close. It has a safety on the rear left of the reciever like the lithgow but no magazine cut off. It has a brass button plate in the stock and s brass butt plate. It won't let me upload pics for some reason but. I see a crown stamped on it with GR 1917 and SHTLE with the HT capitalized but stamped smaller than the rest and under that I have a Roman numeral 3 with an asterisk by it. I will try to load the pics again. Thanks for any information.

F. Guffey · August 27, 2015, 07:09 AM

Quote:

It won't let me upload pics for some reason but.

I like that in a rifle.

F. Guffey

wogpotter · August 27, 2015, 07:34 AM

Quote:

I see a crown stamped on it with GR 1917 and SHTLE with the HT capitalized but stamped smaller than the rest and under that I have a Roman numeral 3 with an asterisk by it.

You have a British made Lee-Enfield Short Magazine Lee Enfield Mk3 (modified) (also known as a Rifle, No1 Mk3*). It may have a cut in the right side of the receiver wall for a magazine cutoff, a pinned windage adjustment of the rear sight & some other minor revisions to the MkIII (no star)

It was made in 1917 King George was on the throne at the time. The rifle was military issue, but civilian versions existed. Only military ones had the "royal cipher" (Crown & monarch) stamped on them. The brass disc, if stamped will identify (possibly on both sides) the unit it was serving with.

You can tell who made it by the serial number & other marks but I'd guess Birmingham Small Arms.

Lots more detailed info & pics here:
http://www.allaboutenfields.co.nz/smle/

bspillman · August 27, 2015, 08:00 AM

Thanks Wogpotter, great link and info.

wogpotter · August 27, 2015, 10:02 AM

Quick note.
With the rifle UNLOADED if you close the bolt with the trigger pulled it will relax the mainspring which is a good thing.
The cock on closing takes a bit of getting used to but its a good system. Just remember that bolt was designed to be "worked smartly" (as in assertively, fully & fast) so if you "baby it" its a bit of a bear. The bolt handle should rest between the curled index finger & thumb, not the ball of the thumb as with a Remington.

James K · August 27, 2015, 02:17 PM

A couple of comments. It was the British custom in that era to name its military rifles after the inventor (James Paris Lee, in this case) along with the type of rifling used. Hence, the Martini-Henry, Martini-Metford, Lee-Metford and Lee-Enfield.

The original Lee used Metford rifling and was designated the Lee-Metford. When Metford rifling proved unsatisfactory, the Lee-Enfield came into use, employing rifling developed at the RSAF, Enfield Lock.

But they also wanted to distinguish the Lee rifle, a repeater, from the older Martini rifle, a single shot, so they added the word "magazine" to the Lee-Metford name, creating the name "Magazine Lee-Metford" or MLM. That designation continued into the LE era, so the long rifle was the Magazine Lee-Enfield, or MLE.

When the British decided to join the rest of the world in adopting a common intermediate length rifle to replace the long infantry rifle and the short cavalry carbine, they added the word "short" to the nomenclature, giving us the immortal "SMLE" or "Smelly". So, contrary to the belief of some, it is the rifle itself that is "short", not the magazine.

For Americans, it might help to imagine the use of commas as our military does, and think of the designation as "Rifle, Short, Magazine, Lee-Enfield."

Jim

kilimanjaro · August 27, 2015, 02:22 PM

The Lee-Enfield was arguably the best battle rifle of WWI. Fast, smooth action, and "Ten rounds, rapid fire" decimated German units.

If it's all there, and good condition, value runs $250 to $350, and some higher. Junkers much less.

Clean and oil it, see if that improves the action.

mapsjanhere · August 27, 2015, 03:18 PM

As German records indicate that 85% of injuries and death in WW I were caused by artillery, that superior fire power might not played out quite that decisively.

wogpotter · August 27, 2015, 03:24 PM

Yes it was Short (model), Magazine (fed) Lee Enfield.
Then, just in case someone figured it out they did the Confusing, Short Lee Enfield thing to confuse you all over again.

Knowing Tommy Atkins humor I'm amazed it was called the "SMELLIE" instead of the more obvious appellation from "ShtLE".

But not as bad as the "Name" "Number", "Mark", "asterisk" system that replaced it, but didn't have the markings changed, was. You just had to know that a "Rifle No1, MkIII*" was in fact a "ShtLE", but a "Rifle No4, Mk1 (or 1*) or 1/2, or 1/3 wasn't an SMLE!

James K · August 27, 2015, 07:18 PM

One add-on. In the late 19th century, the Japanese, in the process of building their army, adopted native rifle designs but, under British influence, chose Metford rifling, which they used until the end of WWII.

Jim

August 27, 2015, 06:32 AM	#1
bspillman Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2011 Posts: 559	Help me identify this rifle please It's chambered in 303 British bolt action. The bolt is spring loaded and can be hard to close. It has a safety on the rear left of the reciever like the lithgow but no magazine cut off. It has a brass button plate in the stock and s brass butt plate. It won't let me upload pics for some reason but. I see a crown stamped on it with GR 1917 and SHTLE with the HT capitalized but stamped smaller than the rest and under that I have a Roman numeral 3 with an asterisk by it. I will try to load the pics again. Thanks for any information.

August 27, 2015, 10:02 AM	#5
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Quick note. With the rifle UNLOADED if you close the bolt with the trigger pulled it will relax the mainspring which is a good thing. The cock on closing takes a bit of getting used to but its a good system. Just remember that bolt was designed to be "worked smartly" (as in assertively, fully & fast) so if you "baby it" its a bit of a bear. The bolt handle should rest between the curled index finger & thumb, not the ball of the thumb as with a Remington. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

August 27, 2015, 03:18 PM	#8
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	As German records indicate that 85% of injuries and death in WW I were caused by artillery, that superior fire power might not played out quite that decisively. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

August 27, 2015, 03:24 PM	#9
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Yes it was Short (model), Magazine (fed) Lee Enfield. Then, just in case someone figured it out they did the Confusing, Short Lee Enfield thing to confuse you all over again. Knowing Tommy Atkins humor I'm amazed it was called the "SMELLIE" instead of the more obvious appellation from "ShtLE". But not as bad as the "Name" "Number", "Mark", "asterisk" system that replaced it, but didn't have the markings changed, was. You just had to know that a "Rifle No1, MkIII" was in fact a "ShtLE", but a "Rifle No4, Mk1 (or 1) or 1/2, or 1/3 wasn't an SMLE*! __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.” Last edited by wogpotter; August 27, 2015 at 03:40 PM.*

August 27, 2015, 08:00 AM	#4
bspillman Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2011 Posts: 559	Thanks Wogpotter, great link and info.

August 27, 2015, 02:17 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	A couple of comments. It was the British custom in that era to name its military rifles after the inventor (James Paris Lee, in this case) along with the type of rifling used. Hence, the Martini-Henry, Martini-Metford, Lee-Metford and Lee-Enfield. The original Lee used Metford rifling and was designated the Lee-Metford. When Metford rifling proved unsatisfactory, the Lee-Enfield came into use, employing rifling developed at the RSAF, Enfield Lock. But they also wanted to distinguish the Lee rifle, a repeater, from the older Martini rifle, a single shot, so they added the word "magazine" to the Lee-Metford name, creating the name "Magazine Lee-Metford" or MLM. That designation continued into the LE era, so the long rifle was the Magazine Lee-Enfield, or MLE. When the British decided to join the rest of the world in adopting a common intermediate length rifle to replace the long infantry rifle and the short cavalry carbine, they added the word "short" to the nomenclature, giving us the immortal "SMLE" or "Smelly". So, contrary to the belief of some, it is the rifle itself that is "short", not the magazine. For Americans, it might help to imagine the use of commas as our military does, and think of the designation as "Rifle, Short, Magazine, Lee-Enfield." Jim

August 27, 2015, 02:22 PM	#7
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	The Lee-Enfield was arguably the best battle rifle of WWI. Fast, smooth action, and "Ten rounds, rapid fire" decimated German units. If it's all there, and good condition, value runs $250 to $350, and some higher. Junkers much less. Clean and oil it, see if that improves the action.

August 27, 2015, 07:18 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	One add-on. In the late 19th century, the Japanese, in the process of building their army, adopted native rifle designs but, under British influence, chose Metford rifling, which they used until the end of WWII. Jim