FYI on Alliant 2400

brotus2 · November 15, 2010, 08:39 PM

Called Alliant for load info on 357 using 2400 with a 125 grain lead PLATED bullet.

They said don't do it. Too hot for lead. Will cause massive leading.

Rangefinder · November 15, 2010, 09:26 PM

I think a lot of cast bullet shooters would argue that 2400 works really well. In fact, it's the "go-to" powder for quite a few cast bullet loads. Whoever you talked to might want to spend a little more time at the loading bench and range.

Leading comes from

A) bullet too soft
B) Bullet undersized
C) not enough lube
D) Too much pressure

2400 is NOT too hot for lead if it's loaded to correct pressures and the other factors are dialed in correctly.

**Unclenick** · November 15, 2010, 09:32 PM

Your load may have been too hot for soft swaged lead core plated bullets. Softer lead can upset and fill the chamber throat and pack the forcing cone and thereby raise pressure above what it would be with a jacketed bullet. The loads have to be reduced or the lead made harder accordingly. A plated cast bullet should be a better candidate.

Keep in mind that Elmer Keith developed the .44 Magnum with cast bullets and 2400 using 16:1 lead:tin alloy, having found 20:1 not quite hard enough. The Lyman manual has a load using 2400 in .38 Special and a number in .44 Special, both using #2 alloy, and in .357 and .44 Magnum using Linotype alloy, which is quite hard.

AlaskaMike · November 15, 2010, 10:03 PM

Another possibility was that Alliant was referring to the load generating velocity enough to strip the plating off the bullet. A 125 grain bullet over a full charge of 2400 would typically run 1300+ fps, depending on barrel length. That's faster than most plated bullet manufacturers recommend their bullets be driven.

I fully agree that the idea of 2400 being too "hot" for cast bullets is just ridiculous. That said, I think it's far more likely that the Alliant person just didn't articulate his point adequately vs. him being totally ignorant of cast bullets.

kyle663 · November 16, 2010, 07:22 AM

I shoot cast in every caliber I have except the 222 rem, and use 2400 in several. if your having leading issues, the problem is elsewhere. It may be any or a combination of the following, bullet diameter too small, lube, trying to push a cast bullet too fast for the alloy being used are the most common things to check. some commercially cast bullets seem to be soft anymore and are standard sized that might not be ideal for your gun. slugging the barrel is done to determine the size cast bullet you need. typically .001-.002 over bore size is ideal. Just my .02 though.

wncchester · November 16, 2010, 05:26 PM

Well made and lubed cast bullets will take a full charge of 2400 with little or no leading.

Most plated bullets are too soft and poorly lubed for speeds over maybe 900 fps (IMHO). A faster burning powder like Unique is a better choice for that.

asavo757 · November 17, 2010, 07:03 PM

thats all i use in 44 mag and 357 mag. I only load lead its been 20 years and no problems.

overkill0084 · November 17, 2010, 07:28 PM

Not the same thing I know, but I worked out a load that worked for me with Plated bullets w/2400

Mine is 14.8 gr of 2400 with a 158 grain Rainier MC. Worked like a champ. Max is 15.3. I know apples & oranges. My point is, Plated bullets worked fine with no odd leading or copper fouling. If the manual (Lee) is to be believed

they should be above 1300fps.
If it were me... (it's not, I know) I would start with loads around 12.5 gr and work up from there. Lyman starts w/ 13gr 2400 behind a 120 gr cast RN, with a max of 16.4 gr of 2400. IIRC Rainier states to use cast bullet data for their stuff.
Like so many other things in life, use due caution and and common sense and you should be fine. It should be noted that My father shot cast bullets with 2400 for several decades without any ill effect except for a bit of leading. Not the end of the world. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=2...S_LEAD_REMOVER

GP100man · November 17, 2010, 10:11 PM

The plating is .003-.007" thick , stay under 1,000 & all will be well.

Above 1,000 I`d check the bore after each shot !!!

In 357 I settled on 4.5 grs of 700x under the 158 HP I have `bout 30 left packed up the rest & sent em to an IDPA shooter !!

November 15, 2010, 08:39 PM	#1
brotus2 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2009 Location: Panama City Beach Posts: 269	FYI on Alliant 2400 Called Alliant for load info on 357 using 2400 with a 125 grain lead PLATED bullet. They said don't do it. Too hot for lead. Will cause massive leading.

November 15, 2010, 09:32 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Your load may have been too hot for soft swaged lead core plated bullets. Softer lead can upset and fill the chamber throat and pack the forcing cone and thereby raise pressure above what it would be with a jacketed bullet. The loads have to be reduced or the lead made harder accordingly. A plated cast bullet should be a better candidate. Keep in mind that Elmer Keith developed the .44 Magnum with cast bullets and 2400 using 16:1 lead:tin alloy, having found 20:1 not quite hard enough. The Lyman manual has a load using 2400 in .38 Special and a number in .44 Special, both using #2 alloy, and in .357 and .44 Magnum using Linotype alloy, which is quite hard. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 16, 2010, 07:22 AM	#5
kyle663 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: IL Posts: 311	I shoot cast in every caliber I have except the 222 rem, and use 2400 in several. if your having leading issues, the problem is elsewhere. It may be any or a combination of the following, bullet diameter too small, lube, trying to push a cast bullet too fast for the alloy being used are the most common things to check. some commercially cast bullets seem to be soft anymore and are standard sized that might not be ideal for your gun. slugging the barrel is done to determine the size cast bullet you need. typically .001-.002 over bore size is ideal. Just my .02 though. __________________ NRA member 22LR,17hmr, 9mm, 9mm makarov, 38 S&W, 38/357, 41mag, 44mag, 45ACP, 7.62x39, 7.62x54, 222rem

November 17, 2010, 07:28 PM	#8
overkill0084 Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2010 Location: Northern, UT Posts: 1,162	Not the same thing I know, but I worked out a load that worked for me with Plated bullets w/2400 Mine is 14.8 gr of 2400 with a 158 grain Rainier MC. Worked like a champ. Max is 15.3. I know apples & oranges. My point is, Plated bullets worked fine with no odd leading or copper fouling. If the manual (Lee) is to be believed they should be above 1300fps. If it were me... (it's not, I know) I would start with loads around 12.5 gr and work up from there. Lyman starts w/ 13gr 2400 behind a 120 gr cast RN, with a max of 16.4 gr of 2400. IIRC Rainier states to use cast bullet data for their stuff. Like so many other things in life, use due caution and and common sense and you should be fine. It should be noted that My father shot cast bullets with 2400 for several decades without any ill effect except for a bit of leading. Not the end of the world. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=2...S_LEAD_REMOVER __________________ Cheers, Greg “At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child – miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.” — P.J. O’Rourke Last edited by overkill0084; November 17, 2010 at 07:36 PM.

November 17, 2010, 10:11 PM	#9
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	The plating is .003-.007" thick , stay under 1,000 & all will be well. Above 1,000 I`d check the bore after each shot !!! In 357 I settled on 4.5 grs of 700x under the 158 HP I have `bout 30 left packed up the rest & sent em to an IDPA shooter !! __________________ GP100man

November 15, 2010, 09:26 PM	#2
Rangefinder Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Posts: 2,017	I think a lot of cast bullet shooters would argue that 2400 works really well. In fact, it's the "go-to" powder for quite a few cast bullet loads. Whoever you talked to might want to spend a little more time at the loading bench and range. Leading comes from A) bullet too soft B) Bullet undersized C) not enough lube D) Too much pressure 2400 is NOT too hot for lead if it's loaded to correct pressures and the other factors are dialed in correctly. __________________ "Why is is called Common Sense when it seems so few actually possess it?" Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.

November 15, 2010, 10:03 PM	#4
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	Another possibility was that Alliant was referring to the load generating velocity enough to strip the plating off the bullet. A 125 grain bullet over a full charge of 2400 would typically run 1300+ fps, depending on barrel length. That's faster than most plated bullet manufacturers recommend their bullets be driven. I fully agree that the idea of 2400 being too "hot" for cast bullets is just ridiculous. That said, I think it's far more likely that the Alliant person just didn't articulate his point adequately vs. him being totally ignorant of cast bullets.

November 16, 2010, 05:26 PM	#6
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Well made and lubed cast bullets will take a full charge of 2400 with little or no leading. Most plated bullets are too soft and poorly lubed for speeds over maybe 900 fps (IMHO). A faster burning powder like Unique is a better choice for that.

November 17, 2010, 07:03 PM	#7
asavo757 Member Join Date: May 3, 2010 Location: saylorsburg pa Posts: 39	thats all i use in 44 mag and 357 mag. I only load lead its been 20 years and no problems.