The real truth about the new 6.5 Creedmoor v/s the .308 - Page 2

sneaky pete · January 9, 2009, 07:03 AM

old Sneaky here: I'm prejudice Cuz I own and shoot a gevar m41/B Swed Sniper and the 6.5 projectile will and does out shoot the .308 and everyone knows it. To lengthen barrel life use Moly in the bore and projectiles-it works and everyone knows it-even G. David Tubb as he uses it and so does Old Sneaky. Now it's no mystery that gun manufactures come up with "New" rifles and/or cartridges not because they'r good guys but to make MONEY. If they don't they'd be out of business. So what's my point?--I you've got the dough and want to spend it on something New & Shiney --go for it--but that doesn't mean that it's better than what's been out there for 113 years. OBTW Who has and sells 6.5-160gr Match projectiles in the same BC range as the 140gr range?? I shoot Lapua Scenar 139gr with a BC of .619 and I was under the impression that the 160gr (which was the Origional weight of the 6.5X55 Swed) is a Round Nose projectile origionally developed for War but the Sweds finally changed it to 139gr- The 160 gr is a great huntng round for up to moose but I use my 139gr Scenar for hunting Cuz I put my shot where I want it. THANX--SNEAKY

ballardw · January 11, 2009, 11:37 PM

Maybe it's time to put a heavier barrel in my .264 Win mag ...

but the pre-64 Winchester Model 70 fans would be hunting my hide.

Hopefully the hoopla, or at least self interest, will get some more 6.5 bullets available for my rifle.

Zak Smith · April 1, 2009, 04:57 PM

The O.P. contains numerous factual errors, e.g.

* Tubb had nothing to do with 6.5 CM, it was Dennis DeMille

* .260 is hands-down better than .308 for long-range

but I want to correct the misunderstanding that stubbicatt posted because I have seen it repeated several times elsewhere (thanks for the compliment too by the way):

Quote:

The dimensions of the cartridge allow one to seat a 140 without the base of the bullet extending below the neck/shoulder junction and still feed from a standard 308 length box magazine. There is some indication that this should increase accuracy.

The base of a 140gr will be well below the bottom of the neck, closer to the body/shoulder junction. When I was doing research for the article, I asked the engineer at Hornady about that specifically. Bottom line, this aspect is not a substantial difference compared to .260 Rem (if it were, I would have mentioned it in the article).

thanks
-z

Slamfire · April 1, 2009, 05:59 PM

Pulled targets this weekend with a shooter who uses a 6.5 Grendel. He is getting 4000 rounds through his tube.

He uses reduced loads for 100 yard Highpower matches, and maybe 200 yards.

He shoots a AR variant and it is very accurate.

When comparing wind dope at 300 yards and 600 yards with the 6.5 Grendel shooters, I had similiar windage for my 168's at 300, and 175's at 600.

Not like the situation when I was squadded with a 6.5-08 shooter at Perry. I had a .223 AR service rifle, and double the windage he had at 600 yards.

Quote:

The O.P. contains numerous factual errors, e.g.

* Tubb had nothing to do with 6.5 CM, it was Dennis DeMille

* .260 is hands-down better than .308 for long-range

I examined the .260 article. I believe the author, when making energy comparisons, is using kinetic energy. I do not believe that is a valid comparision as KE is not conserved in collisons. The only energy conserved is momentum. Which, if the ME numbers were run, the bigger, heavier bullet would likely have more "energy".

ChancePendergrass · November 19, 2009, 08:23 PM

After Reading This And Getting Informed On Barrel Lifle I Believe Ill Stick With The .308 I Dont Know About You Guys.

GeauxTide · November 19, 2009, 08:30 PM

A definitive work on the merits of the 6.5 target rounds.

Zak Smith · November 19, 2009, 08:37 PM

I guess ChancePendergrass is resurrecting a bunch of old threads today.

wbm · January 25, 2011, 09:52 AM

Quote:

I think the 6.5 Creedmoor will be a dead end for them, like the .30 TC and .308 Marlin Express. Advantages which only appear in magazine articles don't last well.

Apparently Ruger, Winchester and Savage don't agree with your prediction of a 6.5 Creedmoor demise. Bet it eclipses the 260 in the next two years. From what I am seeing and hearing the Creedmoor is a home run.

Zak Smith · January 25, 2011, 11:48 AM

There is a lot of demand for mid-size 6.5mm cartridges-- I think enough room for 6.5x47, 6.5 Creedmoor, and .260. Lapua's .260 brass will be showing up on the scene in a few months.

Lessdrop · September 21, 2011, 11:46 PM

Not so. Mine shoots -1/2 in at 100 yds and 3/4 moa at 600 yds. Yes a sanctioned shoot 4in group w 600yds. 70gr berger vld and 25gr varget. 18 in barrell, 2 stage rra trigger, tac inovat I ons forged lower top of with 2-7 leopold vx2. All ar, sorry.
Of course I have 2 308's that'll do the same.
But I like creedmoore an 6 norma too. 308 is nice, love mine, but it's not the do all, end all like some posters seem t pop think!
Liten up , it,s all fun...
New guy here, so hi!
Lessdrop

.300 Weatherby Mag · September 21, 2011, 11:52 PM

I've researched the 6.5 thoroughly.... I like what it does and it gives me an excuse to buy another gun

reloader-1 · September 23, 2011, 08:18 AM

I know I'm responding to someone who posted in January who was responding to someone a couple years ago...

But the .260 is going to be way more popular than the 6.5 CM in 2/4/8/10 years. It is the .308 necked down, has better factory brass availability (Lapua/Nosler/Remington/Norma/Federal), and target shooters are buying them like hotcakes.

If/when Federal comes out with a GMM load for .260 it will sound the death knell for the other target 6.5's. They will stay around forever, as target shooters are a picky bunch and don't mind playing with odd calibers, but the train will have left the station.

The 6.5 CM will go the way of the .30 TC - great cartridge, but can't compete with the .308 family.

cmdc · September 23, 2011, 11:53 AM

I like the 6.5s, too. I have two 6.5x55s and a Grendel. I am going to get another, and have been vacillating between 260 and Creedmoor, in a Savage Weather Warrior, primarily for hunting. I am totally frustrated about which to choose. I was leaning toward the Creedmoor, but am now leaning the other way, due to some of the comments here and on other forums, i.e., ammo availability, staying-power of the round, etc. Can anyone guide me here? I do not reload, and I've seen more ammo available for the 260 than the CM, but I may also want to get a 6.5 upper for one of my AR-10 platforms, and was leaning toward the CM because of it working better in that platform, and because it has been said that the 260 is too long for the magazines with heavier bullets.

Any help with my decision will be greatly appreciated.

Jimro · September 23, 2011, 12:14 PM

If you plan on hunting get the 260 Rem.

If you plan on competing get the 6.5 Creedmoor.

It really is that simple.

Jimro

cmdc · September 23, 2011, 12:44 PM

Thank you so much, Jimro. You don't know how much that helps me. Now I can sleep at night. LOL I'm gonna get the Savage Weather Warrior in 260 and not look back. Do you think that is a good platform? Since I'm left handed, my options are limited.

Zak Smith · September 23, 2011, 02:11 PM

I've seen a factor of 10 more .260's in LR matches than 6.5 CM's.

The component availability and selection is much better for .260.

More factory ammo is available for .260, and more will be available in the near future.

cmdc · September 23, 2011, 02:59 PM

Detachable or hinged floorplate mag?

cmdc · September 23, 2011, 03:16 PM

Also, will the 22" barrel do the round justice for hunting/general shooting?

Thanks

reloader-1 · September 23, 2011, 03:52 PM

I'm not sure where Jimro shoots - but out here on the east coast the .260 outnumbers the 6.5 CM by a large margin.

If you plan on competing, get the .260 as well - IMHO.

Jimro · September 24, 2011, 02:12 AM

Quote:

like the 6.5s, too. I have two 6.5x55s and a Grendel. I am going to get another, and have been vacillating between 260 and Creedmoor, in a Savage Weather Warrior, primarily for hunting. I am totally frustrated about which to choose. I was leaning toward the Creedmoor, but am now leaning the other way, due to some of the comments here and on other forums, i.e., ammo availability, staying-power of the round, etc. Can anyone guide me here? I do not reload, and I've seen more ammo available for the 260 than the CM, but I may also want to get a 6.5 upper for one of my AR-10 platforms, and was leaning toward the CM because of it working better in that platform, and because it has been said that the 260 is too long for the magazines with heavier bullets.

Any help with my decision will be greatly appreciated.
Yesterday 08:18 AM

Uh, guys, did you miss the sentence "I do not reload"?

20rds Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 26 bucks or less. http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...g=653***690***

20 Rounds Corbon or Black Hills 260 Rem match ammo 37 bucks or more? http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...g=653***690***

Maybe I should have explained basic economics in my previous response....

Jimro

reloader-1 · September 24, 2011, 08:02 AM

Jimro,

He answered .260 after you mentioned that .260 was better for hunting, 6.5 for competition, leading me to assume that he prefers hunting.

.260 has more loads available for that (heck, I just stocked up on a Cabelas sale of Remington 140gr Core-Lokts for $20.99)

Also, that .260 Cor-Bon match load is available for around $32 online, and even at my LGS, + it is loaded with Lapua brass, which he can sell after he shoots.

cmdc · September 24, 2011, 10:51 AM

Yes, it will be used mostly for hunting, but I'll be doing paper shooting too, but not long range, because I don't have access to anything beyond 300 yds.

As to the hinged vs detachable magazine, and the 22" barrel. Will that barrel allow the 260 to perform decently?

Thanks. I appreciate your suggestions.

Jimro · September 25, 2011, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Jimro,

He answered .260 after you mentioned that .260 was better for hunting, 6.5 for competition, leading me to assume that he prefers hunting.

.260 has more loads available for that (heck, I just stocked up on a Cabelas sale of Remington 140gr Core-Lokts for $20.99)

Also, that .260 Cor-Bon match load is available for around $32 online, and even at my LGS, + it is loaded with Lapua brass, which he can sell after he shoots.

I understand, just that there were a number of responses proclaiming the popularity of the 260 Rem as a match round. Heck, I found 6.5 Creedmoor for just under 23 bucks a box on sale, still about 9 bucks a box cheaper than the 260 Rem ammo from Corbon. While Hornady might not have the same reputation as Lapua for quality brass, I've never heard anyone complain.

The 260 Rem started out as a hunting round (hence the plethora of hunting loads) and migrated to a match round. The 6.5 Hornady started out as a match round, and I don't think there are any hunting loads for it yet.

I guess I should have been more specific and listed out the reasoning behind recommending 6.5 for matches for a non-reloader and the 260 Rem for hunting for a non-reloader (although if you have a good rifle and don't mind paying the premium it can shoot matches all day long). But my answer still stays the same based on ammo prices.

Jimro

cmdc · September 25, 2011, 11:13 AM

Again, thanks for helping me decide here.

I have read on several threads/forums that the box mags might be too short for some of the longer, high BC bullets, which was why the Creedmoor came to be in the first place, so I would still like some advice on that, as well as how much performance is lost with a shorter 22" hunting barrel. I'm assuming not so much that I still couldn't shoot longer distances(400-600yds) if I wanted to. Not at game, but targets, if I ever find a place to do that.

Thanks

Jimro · September 25, 2011, 11:41 AM

Either round will shoot well out to a thousand meters, so stretching your legs isn't going to be a problem when you get the chance.

Jimro

January 9, 2009, 07:03 AM	#26
sneaky pete Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2004 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 510	That old 6.5 Swed after 113 years will still out shoot .308s old Sneaky here: I'm prejudice Cuz I own and shoot a gevar m41/B Swed Sniper and the 6.5 projectile will and does out shoot the .308 and everyone knows it. To lengthen barrel life use Moly in the bore and projectiles-it works and everyone knows it-even G. David Tubb as he uses it and so does Old Sneaky. Now it's no mystery that gun manufactures come up with "New" rifles and/or cartridges not because they'r good guys but to make MONEY. If they don't they'd be out of business. So what's my point?--I you've got the dough and want to spend it on something New & Shiney --go for it--but that doesn't mean that it's better than what's been out there for 113 years. OBTW Who has and sells 6.5-160gr Match projectiles in the same BC range as the 140gr range?? I shoot Lapua Scenar 139gr with a BC of .619 and I was under the impression that the 160gr (which was the Origional weight of the 6.5X55 Swed) is a Round Nose projectile origionally developed for War but the Sweds finally changed it to 139gr- The 160 gr is a great huntng round for up to moose but I use my 139gr Scenar for hunting Cuz I put my shot where I want it. THANX--SNEAKY Last edited by sneaky pete; January 9, 2009 at 07:07 AM. Reason: sp

November 19, 2009, 08:23 PM	#30
ChancePendergrass Member Join Date: June 26, 2009 Location: La Fayette Georgia Posts: 50	After Reading This And Getting Informed On Barrel Lifle I Believe Ill Stick With The .308 I Dont Know About You Guys. __________________ RUT'N'STRUT

November 19, 2009, 08:30 PM	#31
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,423	See Zak Smith A definitive work on the merits of the 6.5 target rounds.

November 19, 2009, 08:37 PM	#32
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	I guess ChancePendergrass is resurrecting a bunch of old threads today. __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

January 25, 2011, 11:48 AM	#34
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	There is a lot of demand for mid-size 6.5mm cartridges-- I think enough room for 6.5x47, 6.5 Creedmoor, and .260. Lapua's .260 brass will be showing up on the scene in a few months. __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

January 11, 2009, 11:37 PM	#27
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	Maybe it's time to put a heavier barrel in my .264 Win mag ... but the pre-64 Winchester Model 70 fans would be hunting my hide. Hopefully the hoopla, or at least self interest, will get some more 6.5 bullets available for my rifle.

September 21, 2011, 11:46 PM	#35
Lessdrop Junior Member Join Date: September 21, 2011 Posts: 6	Ar with (junk) trigger Not so. Mine shoots -1/2 in at 100 yds and 3/4 moa at 600 yds. Yes a sanctioned shoot 4in group w 600yds. 70gr berger vld and 25gr varget. 18 in barrell, 2 stage rra trigger, tac inovat I ons forged lower top of with 2-7 leopold vx2. All ar, sorry. Of course I have 2 308's that'll do the same. But I like creedmoore an 6 norma too. 308 is nice, love mine, but it's not the do all, end all like some posters seem t pop think! Liten up , it,s all fun... New guy here, so hi! Lessdrop

September 21, 2011, 11:52 PM	#36
.300 Weatherby Mag Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 1,777	I've researched the 6.5 thoroughly.... I like what it does and it gives me an excuse to buy another gun

September 23, 2011, 08:18 AM	#37
reloader-1 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 123	I know I'm responding to someone who posted in January who was responding to someone a couple years ago... But the .260 is going to be way more popular than the 6.5 CM in 2/4/8/10 years. It is the .308 necked down, has better factory brass availability (Lapua/Nosler/Remington/Norma/Federal), and target shooters are buying them like hotcakes. If/when Federal comes out with a GMM load for .260 it will sound the death knell for the other target 6.5's. They will stay around forever, as target shooters are a picky bunch and don't mind playing with odd calibers, but the train will have left the station. The 6.5 CM will go the way of the .30 TC - great cartridge, but can't compete with the .308 family.

September 23, 2011, 11:53 AM	#38
cmdc Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2010 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 721	I like the 6.5s, too. I have two 6.5x55s and a Grendel. I am going to get another, and have been vacillating between 260 and Creedmoor, in a Savage Weather Warrior, primarily for hunting. I am totally frustrated about which to choose. I was leaning toward the Creedmoor, but am now leaning the other way, due to some of the comments here and on other forums, i.e., ammo availability, staying-power of the round, etc. Can anyone guide me here? I do not reload, and I've seen more ammo available for the 260 than the CM, but I may also want to get a 6.5 upper for one of my AR-10 platforms, and was leaning toward the CM because of it working better in that platform, and because it has been said that the 260 is too long for the magazines with heavier bullets. Any help with my decision will be greatly appreciated.

September 23, 2011, 12:14 PM	#39
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	If you plan on hunting get the 260 Rem. If you plan on competing get the 6.5 Creedmoor. It really is that simple. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

September 23, 2011, 12:44 PM	#40
cmdc Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2010 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 721	Thank you so much, Jimro. You don't know how much that helps me. Now I can sleep at night. LOL I'm gonna get the Savage Weather Warrior in 260 and not look back. Do you think that is a good platform? Since I'm left handed, my options are limited.

September 23, 2011, 02:11 PM	#41
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	I've seen a factor of 10 more .260's in LR matches than 6.5 CM's. The component availability and selection is much better for .260. More factory ammo is available for .260, and more will be available in the near future. __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

September 23, 2011, 02:59 PM	#42
cmdc Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2010 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 721	Detachable or hinged floorplate mag?

September 23, 2011, 03:16 PM	#43
cmdc Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2010 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 721	Also, will the 22" barrel do the round justice for hunting/general shooting? Thanks

September 23, 2011, 03:52 PM	#44
reloader-1 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 123	I'm not sure where Jimro shoots - but out here on the east coast the .260 outnumbers the 6.5 CM by a large margin. If you plan on competing, get the .260 as well - IMHO.

September 24, 2011, 08:02 AM	#46
reloader-1 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 123	Jimro, He answered .260 after you mentioned that .260 was better for hunting, 6.5 for competition, leading me to assume that he prefers hunting. .260 has more loads available for that (heck, I just stocked up on a Cabelas sale of Remington 140gr Core-Lokts for $20.99) Also, that .260 Cor-Bon match load is available for around $32 online, and even at my LGS, + it is loaded with Lapua brass, which he can sell after he shoots.

September 24, 2011, 10:51 AM	#47
cmdc Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2010 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 721	Yes, it will be used mostly for hunting, but I'll be doing paper shooting too, but not long range, because I don't have access to anything beyond 300 yds. As to the hinged vs detachable magazine, and the 22" barrel. Will that barrel allow the 260 to perform decently? Thanks. I appreciate your suggestions.

September 25, 2011, 11:13 AM	#49
cmdc Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2010 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 721	Again, thanks for helping me decide here. I have read on several threads/forums that the box mags might be too short for some of the longer, high BC bullets, which was why the Creedmoor came to be in the first place, so I would still like some advice on that, as well as how much performance is lost with a shorter 22" hunting barrel. I'm assuming not so much that I still couldn't shoot longer distances(400-600yds) if I wanted to. Not at game, but targets, if I ever find a place to do that. Thanks

September 25, 2011, 11:41 AM	#50
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Either round will shoot well out to a thousand meters, so stretching your legs isn't going to be a problem when you get the chance. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

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