Home invasion at elderly neighbor's house. I'm a good shot but not mentally prepared

freenokia · January 1, 2015, 01:36 AM

Home invasion at elderly neighbor's house. I'm a good shot but not mentally prepared or tactically equipped to handle if it happens here.

Yesterday my neighbors were robbed in broad daylight. She was sitting on her patio when two guys walked up with "big sticks". They told her they wanted her money and jewelry. They took her to the bedroom, took her money/jewelry and her husband's wallet. Then they left. Didn't hurt her. He was in the shower and didn't know it happened...

That was yesterday. Just found out that another one happened tonight. Don't know the details yet.

I live just outside of a small town and all the houses in our area are semi private with each having 5-10 acres of land. I live in a nice house for the area and expect that they've at least weighed their options of hitting this house.

Looks like things might be fixin to get real. Need to get my mind right. Any advice?

R.Ph. 380 · January 1, 2015, 02:20 AM

Shoot before you've got time to think!!!

walks with gun · January 1, 2015, 02:28 AM

I wish there was some magic mind set, but all I can tell you if they come after you and yours you might not be as lucky as the old couple next door. They could go on to hurt others, especially if they gain access to your firearms that you didn't use. Make sure you at least try to improve your security with motion lights, better locks and possibly a safe room, a dog or too can be of help. Talk to your local deputies about driving by once in awhile. the more precautions you take the better it will look in the eyes of the law if you do have to defend yourself. Good luck.

jimbob86 · January 1, 2015, 02:42 AM

"Threats of violence can not be rewarded, lest they be repeated."

Snyper · January 1, 2015, 06:44 AM

Quote:

not mentally prepared or tactically equipped to handle if it happens here.

Sounds like that's something you need to change ASAP

I nearly always have a weapon within arms reach, and there are others strategically placed around the house

Your neighbor is lucky they only wanted money and jewels

1stmar · January 1, 2015, 07:37 AM

If you don't carry in the house, start, tighten up all aspects of security, make sure windows and doors are locked even when u r home. Be cognizant of your surroundings when moving to and from your house. Frequently run what if scenarios through your head so if something does happen you have a plan. Always have a cell phone on you. Don't answer the door w/o checking who it is. The best way to get mentally prepared is to train for it. A lot of good magazines out that will help. Don't let yourself be surprised... Good luck

Pond, James Pond · January 1, 2015, 09:05 AM

I'm by no means an expert, but based on the advice I've read here before, it sounds to me like, first and foremost, you need to know exactly where you stand legally about use of lethal force where you live.

You need to know what actions on the aggressor's part justify lethal force becoming a viable option. You need to establish what "stand your ground", "duty to retreat" (if that is the right term) or "castle doctrines" exist in your state.

If you have family, you need to agree with them what they would need to do in an emergency: which room to go to, and what to do there. If you have a partner, are they armed too?

You need to decide which part of the house is vulnerable and which part of the house can be easily defended so that you can hold out until help arrives.

If they see that you are alert in the first place, they are less likely to choose your home. If they encounter resistance, they are less likely to stand around trying to complete the robbery.

In addition you may want to consider home security of some sort: automatic lights, or even an IR camera that will show anyone walking toward the house. I doubt these things would break the bank, and they'd give you an additional level of warning.

Above all, just be vigilant and reach a state of mind where you'll have decided what to do if the worst were to happen, before it happens. I don't envy your situation of feeling like you may be a target, but you've had a "shot across the bows" by it happening to a neighbour, so continue take that opportunity to prepare as you have already started by seeking advice here.

Glenn E. Meyer · January 1, 2015, 11:00 AM

A good starting point is training. Not knowing your area - try to find a legit training company that teaches basic skills, mindset, legalisms and then has serious well planned force on force, realistic scenario training.

Securing your home is a great idea also.

Watch out for commando clowns in the training world.

g.willikers · January 1, 2015, 11:06 AM

It's hard for normal folks to stay vigilant 24/7.
Some kind of warning device might help to let you know when visitors are approaching.
Then, at least, you will have an advantage if they are the wrong kind of visitor.

AK103K · January 1, 2015, 11:37 AM

Youre on the right path thinking about it, now just get your head in the game and start working on some things and start formulating your responses.

If this is actively going on (even if it isnt), first and foremost, you should be wearing your gun (or whatever you choose) all the time. In these kinds of things, youre not likely to have time to run and look for it, no matter how close you think it might be. If its not on you, Murphy will make sure its at the furthest point from you, the instant you need it. If you arent armed, youre not armed, period.

Also, if youre not used to getting your gun into action from however you wear it, without thought, you need to start working on that.

Keep things simple, and dont over think them. Work through a couple of basic scenarios and go from there. Just get set in your mind ahead of time, what will trigger your predetermined safeties to come of and what the response will be when they do, and then follow through. The time to think about things is now, not when youre caught with your pants down.

I know its a little late here, but if you dont already have a good dog (and better yet, "dogs") nows a real good time to get one. A good, large breed dog that is a family member, will give you so many more options and is basically a roving alarm system, that will fight for you, and defend you to the death. You will know well before that door comes in, that troubles coming, and you'll also know exactly where it is, should someone be foolish enough to come in.

I fully understand that depending where we live, we may have different rules of engagement, or restrictions on how we are "supposed" to proceed, at least according to "their" rules, but as far as Im concerned, those rules go out the window, when your life, or others you are concerned about, are threatened. Dont die because someone who has nothing in it, and likely has immunity from anything afterwords, told you youre not "allowed" to defend yourself, because there are "rules".

There is only one rule, and thats win. Once things are underway, the only rule you should be following, is win the fight at all costs. You can worry about the paperwork afterwards, if you prevail. Dont die for lack of shooting back, when you should be shooting back, and better yet, shoot first. If you know its coming, you dont have to wait to respond.

Pond, James Pond · January 1, 2015, 12:11 PM

Quote:

I know its a little late here, but if you dont already have a good dog (and better yet, "dogs") nows a real good time to get one. A good, large breed dog that is a family member, will give you so many more options and is basically a roving alarm system, that will fight for you, and defend you to the death. You will know well before that door comes in, that troubles coming, and you'll also know exactly where it is, should someone be foolish enough to come in.

I feel I should chime in here.
I know from personal experience that dogs are excellent to have around as a warning of people coming knocking and I am sure that they are being mentioned here for that part of their role in cohabitation with people, but I would advise against getting a dog solely as a mobile alarm.

They are a big responsibility to keep well and in a manner that is also to their own benefit as part of the family. There is the exercise regime, there is the attention and interaction they deserve and there are the restrictions they impose on life such as holidays away etc.

If you want a dog and are happy to commit the time, energy and expense to keeping one, then great. If it is just as a home security measure I'd say be fair on the dog and get CCTV, motion detectors and an alarm instead.

my 2€c

SauerGrapes · January 1, 2015, 08:40 PM

^^^^excellent!^^^^

We have a dog because my wife loves dogs. {pampered little SOB}{lol}
He's great for early warning. He can hear a squirrel walking up the sidewalk. Let's us know if anything is anywhere near the house.

Pets are a lot of work though. We are willing to put the time and effort into owning one. {Especially my wife}

My wife and me have discussed a length what she needs to do of something happens.

AK103K · January 1, 2015, 09:08 PM

Quote:

We have a dog because my wife loves dogs. {pampered little SOB}{lol}

We have them for the same reason, we both love them. Ours are pampered little 125 pound SOB's, who are quite possessive of their family.

They really arent all that much work, and they very much are like kids. Just big kids that will eat you if you dont behave, or raise your voice to Mom.

If something or someone were to hurt one of them, whoever does it, better hope the cops get to them first, as my wife will show them that dying can take a long time and be quite painful. Its a mutual agreement she and the dogs have.

robmkivseries70 · January 2, 2015, 12:52 AM

For your attitude, Jeff Cooper suggested Righteous Indignation as a starting point. Obtain a copy of his "Principles of Personal Defense" and study it religiously.
Best,
Rob

hartcreek · January 2, 2015, 05:49 AM

You need to take a course and get your head on straight and get your security issues handled yesterday.

Many readers probably remember

http://www.leagle.com/decision/19936...TE%20v.%20RICE

The Nickoloff murders took place a half mile from my parents house. I actually drove by the couples house when it was occuring but saw nothing out of the ordinary.

Deaf Smith · January 3, 2015, 05:06 AM

Free,

As many are saying, get training, get a good carry gun YOU can wear all the time, and a layered defense for your household.

As for being mentally prepared, read Jeff Coopers book on that (I think it's free and on the internet now.) I don't want to kill anyone either but I WILL NOT allow them to hurt me or those around me. And that is my mental preparedness.

Deaf

Mobuck · January 3, 2015, 07:06 AM

Not everyone is capable or emotionally compatible with facing a threat with deadly force.

JERRYS. · January 3, 2015, 08:11 AM

if you are not going to change your mentality on self defense, there's no amount of target hardening that will work for you other than armed guards with the right mentality.

TXAZ · January 3, 2015, 09:53 AM

1) a dog
2) a camera that is not too well hidden
3) an ADT sign off of eBay
4) with due respect to the first responder above, DO NOT "shoot before you have time tothink". The consequences could be tragic, expensive or put you in jail or prison

Hiker 1 · January 3, 2015, 11:07 AM

3) an ADT sign off of eBay

An actual ADT account works much better

and they're not very costly.

I live in a very similar neighborhood - semi-rural, big lots, etc. On 2.5 of our 5 acres, we have an invisible fence for our two large dogs and they are serious deterrants for anyone staking the place out.

We've never had a violent crime in this neighborhood as far as I know and my M&P is always at arm's length.

TXAZ · January 4, 2015, 01:51 AM

Hiker
Yes you can get real ADT signs (legitimately) off ebay. From people who sell their annual sign allowance. I've put those up and haven't had any trouble since. And the cops here don't really respond to alarms, apparently standard across the country.
The fake / off brand imho are worthless.

Snyper · January 4, 2015, 07:41 AM

Quote:

And the cops here don't really respond to alarms, apparently standard across the country.

They respond here unless you have a rash of false alarms

Alarms aren't much good in an "invasion"

manta49 · January 4, 2015, 08:36 AM

If you see anything suspicious and have the opportunity ring the police. There are too many possible different scenarios to be prepared for them all. Improving security would be the first thing to do, better keeping someone out of the house than wondering what to do if they get in.

Mainah · January 4, 2015, 07:41 PM

The police response time around here is half an hour, at best. I'm in the same rural environment that the OP described. That doesn't get better with an alarm, the bad guys know it. They'll break into an alarmed home and do their thing while the alarm is going off. From my perspective, based on where I live a security service sign is just an advertisement for valuable stuff in my home.

Dogs are a great warning system. But as others have pointed out they're also a big commitment, not worth it if you don't love owning them. And dogs that bark at everything can condition you to tune a lot out. I've owned over ten dogs, and only a couple of them knew when to get my attention when it was important and just watch when it wasn't.

Keep in mind that the guys who hit your neighbor likely targeted her because she was an old lady. Furthermore I have to wonder if it was a coincidence that they hit the house while her husband was in the shower, I suspect they'd been watching for awhile.

So reach out to all the neighbors. Strange traffic is easy to spot in rural locations. Work together and keep an eye on things. I live on a quiet dead end road. I smile and waive at every car that comes down the street when I'm working by the road or walking the dog. To be friendly, and to let them know I've seen them.

Will-j · January 5, 2015, 01:01 AM

I have but one question , and I ask it with all due respect: If you have any reservations about having to use lethal force in protecting either yourself, your family, or another innocent party when confronted with life-threatening circumstances....especially in your own home; Why do you choose to carry a firearm in the first place?
Wherever you live, the 'CASTLE DOCTRINE' should apply, especially if your home is broken into and your lives are threatened, and the intruders are armed when you are so threatened.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding something here, and if so--then I apologize, but whatever the case... if you are not mentally prepared to use lethal force then you surely face the possibility of severe bodily harm, as well as those with you... even death....should the perpetrators discover that you are carrying at the time.
As a retired Peace Officer, I still remember what the academy instructors told us. 'If you are not willing to use lethal force--by ANY means necessary to protect yourself or any other innocent party, then you are in the wrong profession'.
I wish you luck in finding your resolution.

WILL.

January 1, 2015, 01:36 AM	#1
freenokia Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 142	Home invasion at elderly neighbor's house. I'm a good shot but not mentally prepared Home invasion at elderly neighbor's house. I'm a good shot but not mentally prepared or tactically equipped to handle if it happens here. Yesterday my neighbors were robbed in broad daylight. She was sitting on her patio when two guys walked up with "big sticks". They told her they wanted her money and jewelry. They took her to the bedroom, took her money/jewelry and her husband's wallet. Then they left. Didn't hurt her. He was in the shower and didn't know it happened... That was yesterday. Just found out that another one happened tonight. Don't know the details yet. I live just outside of a small town and all the houses in our area are semi private with each having 5-10 acres of land. I live in a nice house for the area and expect that they've at least weighed their options of hitting this house. Looks like things might be fixin to get real. Need to get my mind right. Any advice?

January 1, 2015, 02:20 AM	#2
R.Ph. 380 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2008 Location: Dallas, TX Area Posts: 151	Shoot before you've got time to think!!! __________________ Space for Witty Signature Line for Rent.......cheap The Bill Of Rights: Void Where Progressives Roam

January 1, 2015, 09:05 AM	#7
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	I'm by no means an expert, but based on the advice I've read here before, it sounds to me like, first and foremost, you need to know exactly where you stand legally about use of lethal force where you live. You need to know what actions on the aggressor's part justify lethal force becoming a viable option. You need to establish what "stand your ground", "duty to retreat" (if that is the right term) or "castle doctrines" exist in your state. If you have family, you need to agree with them what they would need to do in an emergency: which room to go to, and what to do there. If you have a partner, are they armed too? You need to decide which part of the house is vulnerable and which part of the house can be easily defended so that you can hold out until help arrives. If they see that you are alert in the first place, they are less likely to choose your home. If they encounter resistance, they are less likely to stand around trying to complete the robbery. In addition you may want to consider home security of some sort: automatic lights, or even an IR camera that will show anyone walking toward the house. I doubt these things would break the bank, and they'd give you an additional level of warning. Above all, just be vigilant and reach a state of mind where you'll have decided what to do if the worst were to happen, before it happens. I don't envy your situation of feeling like you may be a target, but you've had a "shot across the bows" by it happening to a neighbour, so continue take that opportunity to prepare as you have already started by seeking advice here. __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

January 1, 2015, 11:00 AM	#8
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	A good starting point is training. Not knowing your area - try to find a legit training company that teaches basic skills, mindset, legalisms and then has serious well planned force on force, realistic scenario training. Securing your home is a great idea also. Watch out for commando clowns in the training world. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

January 1, 2015, 11:06 AM	#9
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	It's hard for normal folks to stay vigilant 24/7. Some kind of warning device might help to let you know when visitors are approaching. Then, at least, you will have an advantage if they are the wrong kind of visitor. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

January 1, 2015, 02:28 AM	#3
walks with gun Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2014 Location: northern Mn. Posts: 271	I wish there was some magic mind set, but all I can tell you if they come after you and yours you might not be as lucky as the old couple next door. They could go on to hurt others, especially if they gain access to your firearms that you didn't use. Make sure you at least try to improve your security with motion lights, better locks and possibly a safe room, a dog or too can be of help. Talk to your local deputies about driving by once in awhile. the more precautions you take the better it will look in the eyes of the law if you do have to defend yourself. Good luck.

January 1, 2015, 02:42 AM	#4
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	"Threats of violence can not be rewarded, lest they be repeated."

January 1, 2015, 07:37 AM	#6
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	If you don't carry in the house, start, tighten up all aspects of security, make sure windows and doors are locked even when u r home. Be cognizant of your surroundings when moving to and from your house. Frequently run what if scenarios through your head so if something does happen you have a plan. Always have a cell phone on you. Don't answer the door w/o checking who it is. The best way to get mentally prepared is to train for it. A lot of good magazines out that will help. Don't let yourself be surprised... Good luck

January 1, 2015, 11:37 AM	#10
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Youre on the right path thinking about it, now just get your head in the game and start working on some things and start formulating your responses. If this is actively going on (even if it isnt), first and foremost, you should be wearing your gun (or whatever you choose) all the time. In these kinds of things, youre not likely to have time to run and look for it, no matter how close you think it might be. If its not on you, Murphy will make sure its at the furthest point from you, the instant you need it. If you arent armed, youre not armed, period. Also, if youre not used to getting your gun into action from however you wear it, without thought, you need to start working on that. Keep things simple, and dont over think them. Work through a couple of basic scenarios and go from there. Just get set in your mind ahead of time, what will trigger your predetermined safeties to come of and what the response will be when they do, and then follow through. The time to think about things is now, not when youre caught with your pants down. I know its a little late here, but if you dont already have a good dog (and better yet, "dogs") nows a real good time to get one. A good, large breed dog that is a family member, will give you so many more options and is basically a roving alarm system, that will fight for you, and defend you to the death. You will know well before that door comes in, that troubles coming, and you'll also know exactly where it is, should someone be foolish enough to come in. I fully understand that depending where we live, we may have different rules of engagement, or restrictions on how we are "supposed" to proceed, at least according to "their" rules, but as far as Im concerned, those rules go out the window, when your life, or others you are concerned about, are threatened. Dont die because someone who has nothing in it, and likely has immunity from anything afterwords, told you youre not "allowed" to defend yourself, because there are "rules". There is only one rule, and thats win. Once things are underway, the only rule you should be following, is win the fight at all costs. You can worry about the paperwork afterwards, if you prevail. Dont die for lack of shooting back, when you should be shooting back, and better yet, shoot first. If you know its coming, you dont have to wait to respond.

January 1, 2015, 08:40 PM	#12
SauerGrapes Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Location: S.E.PA. Posts: 920	^^^^excellent!^^^^ We have a dog because my wife loves dogs. {pampered little SOB}{lol} He's great for early warning. He can hear a squirrel walking up the sidewalk. Let's us know if anything is anywhere near the house. Pets are a lot of work though. We are willing to put the time and effort into owning one. {Especially my wife} My wife and me have discussed a length what she needs to do of something happens. __________________ NRA member, DCF&S member, PAFOA member, USPSA member, NSCA member R.I.P.____Murphy

January 2, 2015, 12:52 AM	#14
robmkivseries70 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: free territory Posts: 203	For your attitude, Jeff Cooper suggested Righteous Indignation as a starting point. Obtain a copy of his "Principles of Personal Defense" and study it religiously. Best, Rob

January 2, 2015, 05:49 AM	#15
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	You need to take a course and get your head on straight and get your security issues handled yesterday. Many readers probably remember http://www.leagle.com/decision/19936...TE%20v.%20RICE The Nickoloff murders took place a half mile from my parents house. I actually drove by the couples house when it was occuring but saw nothing out of the ordinary.

January 3, 2015, 05:06 AM	#16
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Free, As many are saying, get training, get a good carry gun YOU can wear all the time, and a layered defense for your household. As for being mentally prepared, read Jeff Coopers book on that (I think it's free and on the internet now.) I don't want to kill anyone either but I WILL NOT allow them to hurt me or those around me. And that is my mental preparedness. Deaf __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

January 3, 2015, 07:06 AM	#17
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Not everyone is capable or emotionally compatible with facing a threat with deadly force.

January 3, 2015, 08:11 AM	#18
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	if you are not going to change your mentality on self defense, there's no amount of target hardening that will work for you other than armed guards with the right mentality.

January 3, 2015, 09:53 AM	#19
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	1) a dog 2) a camera that is not too well hidden 3) an ADT sign off of eBay 4) with due respect to the first responder above, DO NOT "shoot before you have time tothink". The consequences could be tragic, expensive or put you in jail or prison __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

January 3, 2015, 11:07 AM	#20
Hiker 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 596	3) an ADT sign off of eBay An actual ADT account works much better and they're not very costly. I live in a very similar neighborhood - semi-rural, big lots, etc. On 2.5 of our 5 acres, we have an invisible fence for our two large dogs and they are serious deterrants for anyone staking the place out. We've never had a violent crime in this neighborhood as far as I know and my M&P is always at arm's length.

January 4, 2015, 01:51 AM	#21
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Hiker Yes you can get real ADT signs (legitimately) off ebay. From people who sell their annual sign allowance. I've put those up and haven't had any trouble since. And the cops here don't really respond to alarms, apparently standard across the country. The fake / off brand imho are worthless. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

January 4, 2015, 08:36 AM	#23
manta49 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2011 Location: N Ireland. UK. Posts: 1,809	If you see anything suspicious and have the opportunity ring the police. There are too many possible different scenarios to be prepared for them all. Improving security would be the first thing to do, better keeping someone out of the house than wondering what to do if they get in.

January 4, 2015, 07:41 PM	#24
Mainah Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2007 Posts: 1,119	The police response time around here is half an hour, at best. I'm in the same rural environment that the OP described. That doesn't get better with an alarm, the bad guys know it. They'll break into an alarmed home and do their thing while the alarm is going off. From my perspective, based on where I live a security service sign is just an advertisement for valuable stuff in my home. Dogs are a great warning system. But as others have pointed out they're also a big commitment, not worth it if you don't love owning them. And dogs that bark at everything can condition you to tune a lot out. I've owned over ten dogs, and only a couple of them knew when to get my attention when it was important and just watch when it wasn't. Keep in mind that the guys who hit your neighbor likely targeted her because she was an old lady. Furthermore I have to wonder if it was a coincidence that they hit the house while her husband was in the shower, I suspect they'd been watching for awhile. So reach out to all the neighbors. Strange traffic is easy to spot in rural locations. Work together and keep an eye on things. I live on a quiet dead end road. I smile and waive at every car that comes down the street when I'm working by the road or walking the dog. To be friendly, and to let them know I've seen them.

January 5, 2015, 01:01 AM	#25
Will-j Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2014 Location: SW Ga. Near Ft. Benning Posts: 251	Mindset@freenokia I have but one question , and I ask it with all due respect: If you have any reservations about having to use lethal force in protecting either yourself, your family, or another innocent party when confronted with life-threatening circumstances....especially in your own home; Why do you choose to carry a firearm in the first place? Wherever you live, the 'CASTLE DOCTRINE' should apply, especially if your home is broken into and your lives are threatened, and the intruders are armed when you are so threatened. Perhaps I am misunderstanding something here, and if so--then I apologize, but whatever the case... if you are not mentally prepared to use lethal force then you surely face the possibility of severe bodily harm, as well as those with you... even death....should the perpetrators discover that you are carrying at the time. As a retired Peace Officer, I still remember what the academy instructors told us. 'If you are not willing to use lethal force--by ANY means necessary to protect yourself or any other innocent party, then you are in the wrong profession'. I wish you luck in finding your resolution. WILL.